Frugalwoods

blondie42107 · December 2015

Found this today and I know they've been mentioned on the board before...

http://www.today.com/video/see-how-this-couple-plans-to-retire-in-their-30s-584912963941

als1982 · December 2015

I love them and have followed for a while now - I also recently found out they grew up just a few miles from where I live now and went to KU, which makes me love them even more!!

vlagrl29 · December 2015

That's interesting. I wonder how much they have in their retirement. I can't imagine retiring that early. They must have a few million in their iras

lbonga1 · December 2015

I follow Mr. Money Mustache. He and his wife also retired in their early thirties. He explains in his blog that most people who retire that early consider early retirement to mean that they have reached financial independence. In that sense, they don't necessarily have to work, but they will if they are offered a project or whatever that they want to do. Most also have some sort of passive income, like rental properties. But yeah, it also means saving 50%+ of your income.

hoffse · December 2015

Yeah I've read about them. They're really interesting, but I'm pretty sure some of their plans include homesteading, etc. to be able to afford to retire that early. I get the impression that they are rice and beans people and plan to stay that way their entire lives. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it takes a particular personality to be able to do that and really enjoy it for decades.

I know how this is going to sound, but I really hope to have a higher standard of living than that when we retire. I know we would not be happy scrimping on virtually everything for our entire lives. We've done it before, and we are capable of doing it again if we have to, but that's not our life plan. More power to them if they can make that their life plan and really enjoy it.

I really like reading the Mr. Money Mustache boards (and others where they pop up), but my #1 pet peeve is that many of the super-early-retirees don't seem to understand that somebody might actually like their corporate job enough to stay for the long haul. I've read boards where MMM has popped up and expressed disbelief that this could be true, but I mean... some people actually don't care to retire early (or ever), and there's nothing wrong with that. H and I would like to retire in our 50's I think. We know we could push it earlier, but we both really like our jobs, and we want to see how our careers play out before stepping down. Most attorneys seem to peak in their 40's and early 50's. Anyway, it's a very personal decision. H and I hope to achieve financial independence well before we retire. For us, financial independence and retirement are two different things.

als1982 · December 2015

hoffse said:
Yeah I've read about them. They're really interesting, but I'm pretty sure some of their plans include homesteading, etc. to be able to afford to retire that early. I get the impression that they are rice and beans people and plan to stay that way their entire lives. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it takes a particular personality to be able to do that and really enjoy it for decades.

I know how this is going to sound, but I really hope to have a higher standard of living than that when we retire. I know we would not be happy scrimping on virtually everything for our entire lives. We've done it before, and we are capable of doing it again if we have to, but that's not our life plan. More power to them if they can make that their life plan and really enjoy it.

I really like reading the Mr. Money Mustache boards (and others where they pop up), but my #1 pet peeve is that many of the super-early-retirees don't seem to understand that somebody might actually like their corporate job enough to stay for the long haul. I've read boards where MMM has popped up and expressed disbelief that this could be true, but I mean... some people actually don't care to retire early (or ever), and there's nothing wrong with that. H and I would like to retire in our 50's I think. We know we could push it earlier, but we both really like our jobs, and we want to see how our careers play out before stepping down. Most attorneys seem to peak in their 40's and early 50's. Anyway, it's a very personal decision. H and I hope to achieve financial independence well before we retire. For us, financial independence and retirement are two different things.

I get what you're saying here, but you've only been in the workforce a year or two. Don't be surprised if you feel differently about early retirement after you've been working for more than a decade.

dragonstarjk · December 2015

hoffse said:

Yeah I've read about them. They're really interesting, but I'm pretty sure some of their plans include homesteading, etc. to be able to afford to retire that early. I get the impression that they are rice and beans people and plan to stay that way their entire lives. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it takes a particular personality to be able to do that and really enjoy it for decades.

I know how this is going to sound, but I really hope to have a higher standard of living than that when we retire. I know we would not be happy scrimping on virtually everything for our entire lives. We've done it before, and we are capable of doing it again if we have to, but that's not our life plan. More power to them if they can make that their life plan and really enjoy it.

I really like reading the Mr. Money Mustache boards (and others where they pop up), but my #1 pet peeve is that many of the super-early-retirees don't seem to understand that somebody might actually like their corporate job enough to stay for the long haul. I've read boards where MMM has popped up and expressed disbelief that this could be true, but I mean... some people actually don't care to retire early (or ever), and there's nothing wrong with that. H and I would like to retire in our 50's I think. We know we could push it earlier, but we both really like our jobs, and we want to see how our careers play out before stepping down. Most attorneys seem to peak in their 40's and early 50's. Anyway, it's a very personal decision. H and I hope to achieve financial independence well before we retire. For us, financial independence and retirement are two different things.

Absolutely this. I grew up in poverty; I know it sounds petty and snobbish, but I really enjoy not living like that now, and I would never want to go back to that even if it meant I didn't have to work for the next 20-25 years. I want to be able to spend money on frivolous things like Stitch Fix or go on trips or fix up our house. I'm not willing to live like I did growing up unless I absolutely have to. Even if it would mean I could get it all back later AND not have to work--nothing in life is guaranteed. What if H and I lived bare bones, didn't spend anything, put all of our money into retirement, retired in a couple of years, and then he died in a car crash? I'd be full of regrets that we didn't spend any money on things (and by things, I mostly mean experiences) that made us happy. I'd be retired in my 30's alone.

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

I've read Frugalwoods a little, and MMM a lot. Both are great blogs! I'm not sure that living like that is for me, however. I do love my career, and it's already the type of career you get into for the passion of making a difference, not the money. That said, @als1982 makes a great point that I could feel differently in a few years. My field actually has many good PT opportunities, which I would be totally fine with.

The biggest place where I differ from MMM is that he discounts the possibility of things that are expensive and also bring you joy and meaning. The obvious example in my life is diving. Shooting for early FI would mean quitting, and I'm not willing to do that when any number of medical issues could make it so I'm not able to dive in my 50s/60s. If I recall, he's ok with travel to some extent, but many posters on that board put travel in the "keeping up with the Joneses" category, and I don't agree with that at all. If I was interested in appearances I'd quit the travel and update my 1970s kitchen!

What I love about MMM is that he gets people to question what is really necessary. Do you really need an SUV just because you had a kid? Do you need expensive cleaning products, or a 2,000 sf house? No! I don't think it's wrong to chose these things if you can afford them, of course. But we chose to minimize in many of these areas to be able to have great experiences while we're young and healthy. If others minimize to seek FI then power to them! It's nice to see different approaches.

kmurphy2131 · December 2015

als1982 said:

Yeah I've read about them. They're really interesting, but I'm pretty sure some of their plans include homesteading, etc. to be able to afford to retire that early. I get the impression that they are rice and beans people and plan to stay that way their entire lives. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it takes a particular personality to be able to do that and really enjoy it for decades.

I know how this is going to sound, but I really hope to have a higher standard of living than that when we retire. I know we would not be happy scrimping on virtually everything for our entire lives. We've done it before, and we are capable of doing it again if we have to, but that's not our life plan. More power to them if they can make that their life plan and really enjoy it.

I really like reading the Mr. Money Mustache boards (and others where they pop up), but my #1 pet peeve is that many of the super-early-retirees don't seem to understand that somebody might actually like their corporate job enough to stay for the long haul. I've read boards where MMM has popped up and expressed disbelief that this could be true, but I mean... some people actually don't care to retire early (or ever), and there's nothing wrong with that. H and I would like to retire in our 50's I think. We know we could push it earlier, but we both really like our jobs, and we want to see how our careers play out before stepping down. Most attorneys seem to peak in their 40's and early 50's. Anyway, it's a very personal decision. H and I hope to achieve financial independence well before we retire. For us, financial independence and retirement are two different things.
I get what you're saying here, but you've only been in the workforce a year or two. Don't be surprised if you feel differently about early retirement after you've been working for more than a decade.

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

PurpleBookmark · December 2015

I haven't followed either blog, although I just checked them out and bookmarked the Frugalwoods. I know my DH will be eligible for his full pension and retirement benefits at 51 since he started with his job at such a young age. He had a job within the company where he would have counted down the days until he could retire, but a promotion took him to his current job that I don't know he'd want to leave so early.

I'm a SAHM currently so I don't know exactly what my retirement will look like but I know I want to pretty much always work part time as long as I can health wise. Maybe full time until 60, part time after? I obviously want to work somewhere I like though.

Our standard of living in retirement will be simple I'm sure but no homesteading, we are not super handy people! I feel like homesteading is almost like a job anyway, albeit one you hopefully love. I have a lot of respect for people that can do it!

kmurphy2131 · December 2015

I think that retiring in your 30's requires a level of dedication that I just don't desire. I like to enjoy my life. That lifestyle may be enjoyable for some of you, and the frugalwoods, but it's just not enjoyable for me. I am in a profession where I have do a lot of continuing education, reading, and studying on the side to keep up with my job; and all that has to be done on my own time because 36/40 hours a week at work at clinical work & the other 4 are lunch/paperwork time. I love making my own bread (haven't bought a loaf of bread in months), and we always have homemade snacks, homemade breakfasts ready to go, and plenty of things to make quick (or elaborate) homemade dinners - I get a lot of enjoyment out of that. But the only way I have time to do all those things is because we find a way to hire a cleaning lady to come every two weeks. My husbands schedule necessitates that he works so many hours (55 the last couple weeks, starting at 4:30am) that he typically cannot help. I woudn't want to get rice and beans, and pasta all the time just to be able to save grocery money and get rid of my cleaning lady just to retire early.

Right now with my husband not making as much money while he trains for a new position, our savings had plumetted to almost nothing and my student loan repayment is at a minimum - but we have health & time on our side to enjoy life right now so we are spending more money to enjoy dinners out etc while we have weekends off together.

Is it possible that this early retirement goal and lifestyle is easier if both spouses have less demanding careers and can spend equal amounts of time working towards the homesteading aspect of it? Not that we have the worlds most demanding careers but I just don't see how we could do all that and stay sane.

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

Off topic, but @kmurphy2131 do you find that making bread saves you money? H is picky about bread, and I love tasty bread too, so we are usually spending $4.00 from the grocery store or $6.00 from a tasty local bakery per week. I'd be interested in trying to make my own.

kmurphy2131 · December 2015

Xstatic3333 said:

Off topic, but @kmurphy2131 do you find that making bread saves you money? H is picky about bread, and I love tasty bread too, so we are usually spending $4.00 from the grocery store or $6.00 from a tasty local bakery per week. I'd be interested in trying to make my own.

Honestly, I don't know how much money it saves, but it must. I think it is hard to tell because a bag of flour, yeast etc. is more expensive than a loaf of bread. I think it is probably cheaper in the long run though. I could calculate it out, but I use flour to make other things too & honestly don't care enough to nickel and dime it (though I have questioned the actual cost/loaf a lot)

I am picky about my bread/the ingredients in it. So most of the bread that I was buying was $5-6 a loaf. I can't imagine that this isn't significantly cheaper - and it's significantly better! I took a class at King Arthur Flour in Vermont last spring and it was so awesome. I learned how to knead correctly and why ingredients quality matters. It made a huge difference in the quality of my bread because whole wheat can be tricky. I love to bake and find kneading dough relaxing but it can be done with a kitchen aid mixer or bread machine too. My recipe makes two loafs which lasts us 2-3 weeks so it's not a huge time commitment.

hoffse · December 2015

I get what you're saying here, but you've only been in the workforce a year or two. Don't be surprised if you feel differently about early retirement after you've been working for more than a decade.

No I haven't been working a decade, but I'll be halfway to partner in January. It's been longer than a year or two.

You make a good point, but I just don't see wanting to be done completely in my thirties or forties. I could see shifting away from private practice because it demands a lot of time, but I think going cold turkey would honestly make me depressed. I mean that in a clinical way. I have to have something to do, I get bored very easily, and my job is interesting and challenging. Actually, each year it gets more interesting because they let you do increasingly complex stuff.

Neither H nor I do well with free time. 4 days off at Thanksgiving is about my max before I'm climbing the walls and ready to go back to work.

hoffse · December 2015

Xstatic3333 said:

I've read Frugalwoods a little, and MMM a lot. Both are great blogs! I'm not sure that living like that is for me, however. I do love my career, and it's already the type of career you get into for the passion of making a difference, not the money. That said, @als1982 makes a great point that I could feel differently in a few years. My field actually has many good PT opportunities, which I would be totally fine with. The biggest place where I differ from MMM is that he discounts the possibility of things that are expensive and also bring you joy and meaning. The obvious example in my life is diving. Shooting for early FI would mean quitting, and I'm not willing to do that when any number of medical issues could make it so I'm not able to dive in my 50s/60s. If I recall, he's ok with travel to some extent, but many posters on that board put travel in the "keeping up with the Joneses" category, and I don't agree with that at all. If I was interested in appearances I'd quit the travel and update my 1970s kitchen! What I love about MMM is that he gets people to question what is really necessary. Do you really need an SUV just because you had a kid? Do you need expensive cleaning products, or a 2,000 sf house? No! I don't think it's wrong to chose these things if you can afford them, of course. But we chose to minimize in many of these areas to be able to have great experiences while we're young and healthy. If others minimize to seek FI then power to them! It's nice to see different approaches.

*STUCK IN BOX**

Agreed on both points. I like reading his blog because I think the exercise of questioning stuff is a good one. But he does kind of come across as "my way or the highway." That's fine - it's his blog, he can write whatever he wants - but it doesn't seem like he often considers alternative viewpoints. And some of the posters on those boards are such avid followers that they don't seem to think about alternatives either. You're right that some posters take it even further than he does, rejecting things like travel outright, entirely due to (perceived) cost. It's almost like every decision becomes zero-sum, based on what that decision does to help or delay financial independence. That has to be incredibly stressful.

Each to his own. I've realized H and I are not "mustachian" at all. We have expensive hobbies (music, golf, travel). We aren't willing to give those up to get to FI earlier, especially because I doubt either of us will quit working once we get there.

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

kmurphy2131 said:

Xstatic3333 said:

Off topic, but @kmurphy2131 do you find that making bread saves you money? H is picky about bread, and I love tasty bread too, so we are usually spending $4.00 from the grocery store or $6.00 from a tasty local bakery per week. I'd be interested in trying to make my own.

Honestly, I don't know how much money it saves, but it must. I think it is hard to tell because a bag of flour, yeast etc. is more expensive than a loaf of bread. I think it is probably cheaper in the long run though. I could calculate it out, but I use flour to make other things too & honestly don't care enough to nickel and dime it (though I have questioned the actual cost/loaf a lot)

I am picky about my bread/the ingredients in it. So most of the bread that I was buying was $5-6 a loaf. I can't imagine that this isn't significantly cheaper - and it's significantly better! I took a class at King Arthur Flour in Vermont last spring and it was so awesome. I learned how to knead correctly and why ingredients quality matters. It made a huge difference in the quality of my bread because whole wheat can be tricky. I love to bake and find kneading dough relaxing but it can be done with a kitchen aid mixer or bread machine too. My recipe makes two loafs which lasts us 2-3 weeks so it's not a huge time commitment.

Cool! We're in shooting distance of Vermont and tend to go at least once a year so maybe I'll check it out. Thanks!

CuriousKiddosMama · December 2015

I respect what they are doing but don't think I could ever get behind this. I understand wanting to retire young, and that is what we are trying for but I also want to be able to live. I want to be able to treat my kids, and we have to be able to travel to visit family, so that part of their plan absolutely doesn't work for us.
We are planning for retirement in 20 years. I will be young then, but for us retirement is more semi retirement. Find something you want to do (job, volunteer) for a couple hours a week and use that money to help fund trips and spoiling grand kids or whatever. In 20 years we should be financially independent, but I have some outrageous trips I would like to take so that is where the semi retirement may come in handy.
Also planning for retirement and my money is going to last me 30 years is just mind blowing to me. How can you plan to make your money last 60+ years? That just sounds insane to me!

JoanE2012 · December 2015

hoffse said:

Yeah I've read about them. They're really interesting, but I'm pretty sure some of their plans include homesteading, etc. to be able to afford to retire that early. I get the impression that they are rice and beans people and plan to stay that way their entire lives. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it takes a particular personality to be able to do that and really enjoy it for decades.

I know how this is going to sound, but I really hope to have a higher standard of living than that when we retire. I know we would not be happy scrimping on virtually everything for our entire lives. We've done it before, and we are capable of doing it again if we have to, but that's not our life plan. More power to them if they can make that their life plan and really enjoy it.

I really like reading the Mr. Money Mustache boards (and others where they pop up), but my #1 pet peeve is that many of the super-early-retirees don't seem to understand that somebody might actually like their corporate job enough to stay for the long haul. I've read boards where MMM has popped up and expressed disbelief that this could be true, but I mean... some people actually don't care to retire early (or ever), and there's nothing wrong with that. H and I would like to retire in our 50's I think. We know we could push it earlier, but we both really like our jobs, and we want to see how our careers play out before stepping down. Most attorneys seem to peak in their 40's and early 50's. Anyway, it's a very personal decision. H and I hope to achieve financial independence well before we retire. For us, financial independence and retirement are two different things.

This. DH and I have absolutely no desire to do this. I checked out their website and they do indeed have rice and beans most days for lunch. They share one car that is almost 20 years old. They almost never go out to eat. This doesn't sound like fun for me, even if it did mean early retirement. Not to mention, I'm sure early retirement for them will mean a similar lifestyle - not appealing to me at all.

jtmh2012 · December 2015

kmurphy2131 said:

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

I've been in the workforce (post-college) for about 15 yrs now. While I enjoy what I do, I don't really enjoy who I do it for at the moment and absolutely dread having to come into work everyday. If I could quit and never have to work again, I'd do it. Unfortunately, there are bills to be paid and I have things that I want to do that require money. And so I work....:(

cbee817 · December 2015

I love these 2- they're so cute. I think it's awesome they're deciding to do this.. I know I never would have the courage, so it's fun to read about their plan and approach to it. Technically, they're not really retiring- they're quitting their corporate type jobs to move out to a homestead. It seems like they fully intend on working- it's just not stuck at a desk 8-10 hours/day.

blondie42107 · December 2015

I don't follow them regularly but I recall reading that they plan to rent out their current home so that would be some additional money.

I'm not a rice and beans person long term either. Homesteading - I'm neutral. H and I enjoy gardening but with us both working, we don't have as much time to dedicate to it as we'd like. My parents have such a large garden and my mom does a ton of freezing and canning. There are so many things they never buy at the grocery store. My mom usually has a years supply of green beans, corn, peas, tomatoes, potatoes, onions, jams, fruits, etc, until the following summer/fall.

brij2006 · December 2015

I commend their discipline to set a goal and go for it.

People would probably say we prioritize incorrectly as well. We cut eating out greatly, and I'm sort of a home economist to try and save us some money with groceries. We have a garden out back and I spend my weekends in the summer canning and freezing for the winter. We also drive cheaper daily vehicles for our income, and spend weekends working on them.

Yet we have a $23,000 "toy" car that we drive on sunny days and is our "entertainment." We spend about $20/month in actual entertainment (movies, pedicure, etc), but would rather spend our time going for a drive in the car.
I get a haircut once every 4-6 months, and it's by the lady just 2 miles out of town who does it out of her house and charges me $12.

We know that people look at us with side eyes because we will tell them no to going out to dinner, but have an expensive toy car. But that's what we enjoy, and it's worth the sacrifices in other areas so that we can do this.

julieanne912 · December 2015

jtmh2012 said:

kmurphy2131 said:

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

I've been in the workforce (post-college) for about 15 yrs now. While I enjoy what I do, I don't really enjoy who I do it for at the moment and absolutely dread having to come into work everyday. If I could quit and never have to work again, I'd do it. Unfortunately, there are bills to be paid and I have things that I want to do that require money. And so I work....:(

Same here... I've been working over half my life (got my first job at 16, so obviously part time, but still, it's working and not just running around enjoying life). The only times I haven't had full time work was when I had heavy courseloads in school.... so it was the equivalent of working around 60 hours a week.

I would retire right now in a second, even though I'm only 33. But, I would also quit my corporate job that will provide a comfortable lifestyle in a few years, to pick up something I'm truly passionate about, but that has never been enough to pay the bills.

That being said, no WAY could we live this couple's lifestyle. My H has a disease (Crohn's) which shortens his life expectancy. So, while it's not super MM, he likes to spend money on enjoyable things... hence our camper, the polaris rzr he just bought, the nice vehicles, the hockey season tickets, etc. I know this will hurt our retirement later, and we (or I, depending on his health), may have to work later in life because of it. But I also experienced my own dad dying at 52. There were lots of things my parents wanted to do together but didn't in the interest of saving money. They took their first vacation alone in 20 years about a month before he got sick. I think my mom regrets that they didn't enjoy life a bit more.

brij2006 · December 2015

julieanne912 said:

jtmh2012 said:

kmurphy2131 said:

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

I've been in the workforce (post-college) for about 15 yrs now. While I enjoy what I do, I don't really enjoy who I do it for at the moment and absolutely dread having to come into work everyday. If I could quit and never have to work again, I'd do it. Unfortunately, there are bills to be paid and I have things that I want to do that require money. And so I work....:(

Same here... I've been working over half my life (got my first job at 16, so obviously part time, but still, it's working and not just running around enjoying life). The only times I haven't had full time work was when I had heavy courseloads in school.... so it was the equivalent of working around 60 hours a week.

I would retire right now in a second, even though I'm only 33. But, I would also quit my corporate job that will provide a comfortable lifestyle in a few years, to pick up something I'm truly passionate about, but that has never been enough to pay the bills.

That being said, no WAY could we live this couple's lifestyle. My H has a disease (Crohn's) which shortens his life expectancy. So, while it's not super MM, he likes to spend money on enjoyable things... hence our camper, the polaris rzr he just bought, the nice vehicles, the hockey season tickets, etc. I know this will hurt our retirement later, and we (or I, depending on his health), may have to work later in life because of it. But I also experienced my own dad dying at 52. There were lots of things my parents wanted to do together but didn't in the interest of saving money. They took their first vacation alone in 20 years about a month before he got sick. I think my mom regrets that they didn't enjoy life a bit more.

This is my fear. We are having a hard time trying to figure out our balance between saving for retirement and having some fun now. Mostly, traveling. We have a goal to spend our summers at the lake, in retirement. But why not do it now? Put a little less toward retirement, and spend a couple weeks/year at the lake. Or take our kids on an overseas vacation because we can and want that experience with them while we're alive.

short+sassy · December 2015

hoffse said:

Yeah I've read about them. They're really interesting, but I'm pretty sure some of their plans include homesteading, etc. to be able to afford to retire that early. I get the impression that they are rice and beans people and plan to stay that way their entire lives. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it takes a particular personality to be able to do that and really enjoy it for decades.

I know how this is going to sound, but I really hope to have a higher standard of living than that when we retire. I know we would not be happy scrimping on virtually everything for our entire lives. We've done it before, and we are capable of doing it again if we have to, but that's not our life plan. More power to them if they can make that their life plan and really enjoy it.

I really like reading the Mr. Money Mustache boards (and others where they pop up), but my #1 pet peeve is that many of the super-early-retirees don't seem to understand that somebody might actually like their corporate job enough to stay for the long haul. I've read boards where MMM has popped up and expressed disbelief that this could be true, but I mean... some people actually don't care to retire early (or ever), and there's nothing wrong with that. H and I would like to retire in our 50's I think. We know we could push it earlier, but we both really like our jobs, and we want to see how our careers play out before stepping down. Most attorneys seem to peak in their 40's and early 50's. Anyway, it's a very personal decision. H and I hope to achieve financial independence well before we retire. For us, financial independence and retirement are two different things.

1st bolded: So true. Retirement means very different things to different people. I sometimes watch those "Alaska" reality shows where people do homesteading. I think its awesome they enjoy being so close to nature and living pretty independently from the modern world...but, for me, that would be a lifestyle I would absolutely hate. And I'm sure they feel the same about my lifestyle, lol. But different personalities is what make the world go round.

2nd bolded: Although it is not my personal viewpoint, I can definitely understand this. I like my job, it's fine. Or is it just wonderful because my last two were so horrible, lol? Once I reach "income replacing" financial independence, I'll probably even stay a good while. But if I won $100 million in the Powerball, I'd be a gone pecan. However, many people do enjoy the work they do. They're fortunate in that respect. It can actually be a challenge to have too much leisure time, especially for people who have worked hard in their fields and enjoyed a hard charging job with a lot of respect and responsibility.

3rd bolded: I love the way you put this. That sums up my long term financial goals to a tee. I don't know that I would ever "retire", as in the highlight of all my days is watching the Price is Right. But I do want the freedom of being financially independent. To not have to worry about layoffs. To not have my financial path at the mercy of someone else's company or the industry I am working in. Financial independence...whether that means actually quitting my f/t job or just having the option to do that.

dragonstarjk · December 2015

brij2006 said:

julieanne912 said:

jtmh2012 said:

kmurphy2131 said:

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

I've been in the workforce (post-college) for about 15 yrs now. While I enjoy what I do, I don't really enjoy who I do it for at the moment and absolutely dread having to come into work everyday. If I could quit and never have to work again, I'd do it. Unfortunately, there are bills to be paid and I have things that I want to do that require money. And so I work....:(

Same here... I've been working over half my life (got my first job at 16, so obviously part time, but still, it's working and not just running around enjoying life). The only times I haven't had full time work was when I had heavy courseloads in school.... so it was the equivalent of working around 60 hours a week.

I would retire right now in a second, even though I'm only 33. But, I would also quit my corporate job that will provide a comfortable lifestyle in a few years, to pick up something I'm truly passionate about, but that has never been enough to pay the bills.

That being said, no WAY could we live this couple's lifestyle. My H has a disease (Crohn's) which shortens his life expectancy. So, while it's not super MM, he likes to spend money on enjoyable things... hence our camper, the polaris rzr he just bought, the nice vehicles, the hockey season tickets, etc. I know this will hurt our retirement later, and we (or I, depending on his health), may have to work later in life because of it. But I also experienced my own dad dying at 52. There were lots of things my parents wanted to do together but didn't in the interest of saving money. They took their first vacation alone in 20 years about a month before he got sick. I think my mom regrets that they didn't enjoy life a bit more.

This is my fear. We are having a hard time trying to figure out our balance between saving for retirement and having some fun now. Mostly, traveling. We have a goal to spend our summers at the lake, in retirement. But why not do it now? Put a little less toward retirement, and spend a couple weeks/year at the lake. Or take our kids on an overseas vacation because we can and want that experience with them while we're alive.

Me too.

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

I think the calculus of this sort of planning really changes depending on whether or not you have the travel bug. I feel almost stressed out sometimes about all of the places I want to get to and how, realistically, we can only do one big trip every 1-2 years. I'd imagine that for many who chose the early retirement, homesteading-type lifestyle, travel just isn't something they really feel like they are missing out on. There are probably lots of others who chose a path somewhere in between the two extremes.

Some parts of homesteading I really can get behind. We only have a 0.25 acre lot in the city, but I'd like to grow as much of our own vegetables as we can. Last year was year one, and we had enough to get us (mostly) through the summer, but not quite enough to store. Next year I'll try harder and focus on high yield veggies like summer squash. Tomatoes? I quit. I think it's going to be several years, however, before I get much financial savings out of the whole situation. I'd REALLY love to get chickens, because we spend a ton on local eggs, but H is dead set against it and I'm pretty sure they'd be non-compatible with our wannabe bird dog.

als1982 · December 2015

julieanne912 said:

jtmh2012 said:

kmurphy2131 said:

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

I've been in the workforce (post-college) for about 15 yrs now. While I enjoy what I do, I don't really enjoy who I do it for at the moment and absolutely dread having to come into work everyday. If I could quit and never have to work again, I'd do it. Unfortunately, there are bills to be paid and I have things that I want to do that require money. And so I work....:(

Same here... I've been working over half my life (got my first job at 16, so obviously part time, but still, it's working and not just running around enjoying life). The only times I haven't had full time work was when I had heavy courseloads in school.... so it was the equivalent of working around 60 hours a week.

I would retire right now in a second, even though I'm only 33. But, I would also quit my corporate job that will provide a comfortable lifestyle in a few years, to pick up something I'm truly passionate about, but that has never been enough to pay the bills.

That being said, no WAY could we live this couple's lifestyle. My H has a disease (Crohn's) which shortens his life expectancy. So, while it's not super MM, he likes to spend money on enjoyable things... hence our camper, the polaris rzr he just bought, the nice vehicles, the hockey season tickets, etc. I know this will hurt our retirement later, and we (or I, depending on his health), may have to work later in life because of it. But I also experienced my own dad dying at 52. There were lots of things my parents wanted to do together but didn't in the interest of saving money. They took their first vacation alone in 20 years about a month before he got sick. I think my mom regrets that they didn't enjoy life a bit more.

My dad also died around the same age as yours - 55. In thinking about their lifestyle, my mom feels so very thankful that they had the foresight to pay their mortgage off many years before his death, as there would have been no way she could have carried that on her own. I love a good trip/vacation, but IMO financial peace of mind is far more valuable. Also, life insurance. Everyone with financial dependents should have it.

julieanne912 · December 2015

als1982 said:

jtmh2012 said:

kmurphy2131 said:

I'm in the same place as @hoffse in terms of my feelings for early retirement (my husband cant retire until 60 to get his pension so we wont be retiring in our 50s though). Honestly I already don't enjoy going to work everyday (5 years of being in the workforce), but the idea of wanting that "higher standard of living" outweighs my desire to retire early. Granted we are in a unique situation where we would be idiots if my husband didn't work until 60 to get his full pension & me half his pension, but I still think we would work until then.

I've been in the workforce (post-college) for about 15 yrs now. While I enjoy what I do, I don't really enjoy who I do it for at the moment and absolutely dread having to come into work everyday. If I could quit and never have to work again, I'd do it. Unfortunately, there are bills to be paid and I have things that I want to do that require money. And so I work....:(

Same here... I've been working over half my life (got my first job at 16, so obviously part time, but still, it's working and not just running around enjoying life). The only times I haven't had full time work was when I had heavy courseloads in school.... so it was the equivalent of working around 60 hours a week.

I would retire right now in a second, even though I'm only 33. But, I would also quit my corporate job that will provide a comfortable lifestyle in a few years, to pick up something I'm truly passionate about, but that has never been enough to pay the bills.

That being said, no WAY could we live this couple's lifestyle. My H has a disease (Crohn's) which shortens his life expectancy. So, while it's not super MM, he likes to spend money on enjoyable things... hence our camper, the polaris rzr he just bought, the nice vehicles, the hockey season tickets, etc. I know this will hurt our retirement later, and we (or I, depending on his health), may have to work later in life because of it. But I also experienced my own dad dying at 52. There were lots of things my parents wanted to do together but didn't in the interest of saving money. They took their first vacation alone in 20 years about a month before he got sick. I think my mom regrets that they didn't enjoy life a bit more.
My dad also died around the same age as yours - 55. In thinking about their lifestyle, my mom feels so very thankful that they had the foresight to pay their mortgage off many years before his death, as there would have been no way she could have carried that on her own. I love a good trip/vacation, but IMO financial peace of mind is far more valuable. Also, life insurance. Everyone with financial dependents should have it.

Yeah in my folks' case, my mom was the main breadwinner... she made twice as much as my dad. And, because they did live pretty frugally, the mortgage was very doable on her own. He also had quite a bit of life insurance and also had some kind of policy on his truck loan (which he used for work) where it got paid off if he died. It was quite a bit of work for her to sell off all his business assets and get everything put in just her name, but thankfully she always handled the family finances and made sure everything would be OK for the other if one passed away. I hate to think what it would have been like if she had been the one to go first.

That's one of the things we still have to work on... making sure the other knows everything about each others' finances (since they're not all joint accounts), and that we are both life insuranced up. I've got a decent amount but he doesn't... still working on him to get more.

short+sassy · December 2015

Xstatic3333 said:

I think the calculus of this sort of planning really changes depending on whether or not you have the travel bug. I feel almost stressed out sometimes about all of the places I want to get to and how, realistically, we can only do one big trip every 1-2 years. I'd imagine that for many who chose the early retirement, homesteading-type lifestyle, travel just isn't something they really feel like they are missing out on. There are probably lots of others who chose a path somewhere in between the two extremes.

Some parts of homesteading I really can get behind. We only have a 0.25 acre lot in the city, but I'd like to grow as much of our own vegetables as we can. Last year was year one, and we had enough to get us (mostly) through the summer, but not quite enough to store. Next year I'll try harder and focus on high yield veggies like summer squash. Tomatoes? I quit. I think it's going to be several years, however, before I get much financial savings out of the whole situation. I'd REALLY love to get chickens, because we spend a ton on local eggs, but H is dead set against it and I'm pretty sure they'd be non-compatible with our wannabe bird dog.

Oddly enough, despite the fact I live in the middle of a medium sized city, a lot of people raise chickens here. We have good friends who are a family of 4 and all of them love eggs. It was slow going in the beginning, but now their chickens...I think there are six plus a rooster...produce a few dozen eggs/week. They've told us...the way they go through eggs...they are saving a fortune now.

Xstatic3333 · December 2015

short+sassy said:

Xstatic3333 said:

I think the calculus of this sort of planning really changes depending on whether or not you have the travel bug. I feel almost stressed out sometimes about all of the places I want to get to and how, realistically, we can only do one big trip every 1-2 years. I'd imagine that for many who chose the early retirement, homesteading-type lifestyle, travel just isn't something they really feel like they are missing out on. There are probably lots of others who chose a path somewhere in between the two extremes.

Some parts of homesteading I really can get behind. We only have a 0.25 acre lot in the city, but I'd like to grow as much of our own vegetables as we can. Last year was year one, and we had enough to get us (mostly) through the summer, but not quite enough to store. Next year I'll try harder and focus on high yield veggies like summer squash. Tomatoes? I quit. I think it's going to be several years, however, before I get much financial savings out of the whole situation. I'd REALLY love to get chickens, because we spend a ton on local eggs, but H is dead set against it and I'm pretty sure they'd be non-compatible with our wannabe bird dog.

Oddly enough, despite the fact I live in the middle of a medium sized city, a lot of people raise chickens here. We have good friends who are a family of 4 and all of them love eggs. It was slow going in the beginning, but now their chickens...I think there are six plus a rooster...produce a few dozen eggs/week. They've told us...the way they go through eggs...they are saving a fortune now.

That's awesome! They're allowed in my city too. They're surprisingly clean, and quiet if you just have hens. Our neighbors down the street have a bunch! H is just a chicken scrooge. I eat a lot of eggs, and am a little picky about my sourcing, so I think it would make lots of sense for us. Fresh eggs taste way better, too.

Frugalwoods

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