Money Matters
Xstatic3333
member
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
For those involved in hiring
We've recently had two hiring experiences that have made me scratch my head. I work at a teeny environmental nonprofit.
Position A was for a skilled admin professional for our umbrella organization, 25 hours a week at a salary range of $19-$21/hour, clearly stated in the ad. 15 applied, 5 were interviewed. Research ahead of time confirmed this pay rate was reasonable. All three people the position was offered to said they were interested but would need at least $25/hour, which would have made them the second-highest paid person at the organization immediately. Eventually the board gave in and hired one of the negotiators.
Position B was an entry-level technical position, 20 hours a week at $18-$19 an hour, again, clearly stated in the ad. The hourly rate is reasonable for our area. I expected interest to be low given the part-time nature of the job, but we had over 40 applicants, many overqualified. My supervisor made an offer today after two rounds of interviews, and the applicant said she'd need to think about it because she could "make more on unemployment." She wants to negotiate further with the board. Environmental science is competitive, and it's not unheard of for a job search to take longer than the 6 months unemployment lasts in my state.
What is going on here? I can see negotiating within the posted salary range, but is it the new normal to ask for way, way more than the posted salary range after getting an offer? Or to apply for jobs you can't afford to take? Are we somehow miscommunicating? Anyone else want to vent about this abuse of the unemployment insurance system (which I believe in greatly but hate to see misused?).
Gah.
Position A was for a skilled admin professional for our umbrella organization, 25 hours a week at a salary range of $19-$21/hour, clearly stated in the ad. 15 applied, 5 were interviewed. Research ahead of time confirmed this pay rate was reasonable. All three people the position was offered to said they were interested but would need at least $25/hour, which would have made them the second-highest paid person at the organization immediately. Eventually the board gave in and hired one of the negotiators.
Position B was an entry-level technical position, 20 hours a week at $18-$19 an hour, again, clearly stated in the ad. The hourly rate is reasonable for our area. I expected interest to be low given the part-time nature of the job, but we had over 40 applicants, many overqualified. My supervisor made an offer today after two rounds of interviews, and the applicant said she'd need to think about it because she could "make more on unemployment." She wants to negotiate further with the board. Environmental science is competitive, and it's not unheard of for a job search to take longer than the 6 months unemployment lasts in my state.
What is going on here? I can see negotiating within the posted salary range, but is it the new normal to ask for way, way more than the posted salary range after getting an offer? Or to apply for jobs you can't afford to take? Are we somehow miscommunicating? Anyone else want to vent about this abuse of the unemployment insurance system (which I believe in greatly but hate to see misused?).
Gah.
Re: For those involved in hiring
Let me start off by saying how much I LOVE it when the salary range is posted in a job ad. It just saves everyone so much time. I MIGHT apply for a job if I'm pretty close to the range but a bit over AND have more experience/education than what they are looking for, but if I wouldn't take the job unless I'd be making 25% more than the top range, I just wouldn't waste my time applying.
That entry-level tech sounds like a crazy person. UE does not go on forever. I believe nowadays it is generally only 6 months. And I'm pissed that she makes more on UE than she would making $19/hour at 20 hours, lol. Louisiana has one of the lowest UE rates in the country. The highest amount it will pay out is $975/month. But, quite frankly, she did you all a favor. The kind of person who thinks its great to collect UE instead of taking a job offered is generally going to be a clock-watching and possibly even shady person to hire.
Honestly, though, considering all 3 admin. candidates requested the same amount of money...perhaps your all's research is off and the experience/education required for the job actually does not match up with the people you are trying to hire.
I'll even give you a personal example. I live in a crap-paying area that has actually seen wages decline over the last 10 years. Although my current position is not titled "admin professional", it could be characterized that way and I've had previous jobs that were titled "admin. asst." and "executive asst.". I have over 10 years of progressive experience and a BS. I make around $25/hour and probably wouldn't consider a position paying $19-$21, unless I'd been unemployed a REALLY long time. With that said, if just a few years experience would be acceptable, that would be about the right salary range...at least where I live.
For the tech applicant, I knew part time would be tough. "Are you comfortable with part time" was a huge part of the interview process, and the candidate selected said yes, but who knows what her thought process was. It will be interesting to see what happens.
That's hilarious! I've also seen the other side of the coin in ads. Where what they want to pay vs. what the requirements are is super out of whack. Like they want someone with a BS, 5+ years of experience, fluent in Spanish, proficient in some obscure program, etc...for $10-$12/hr. Ummm...yeah.
I went on an interview back when I was unemployed. No salary mentioned, but they were looking for an exec. asst. to support the pres./owner of a good sized trade school. BS preferred, 5+ years experience. So I sent in my resume and got called in for an interview. I filled out an application when I got there that had a "salary required" question. The president herself interviewed me. We had a pleasant interview/conversation for 30 minutes, primarily from my resume. Then I saw her look more closely at my application. She literally said something like, "Oh no! I was counting myself lucky I had found a dream candidate, but this position pays $24K/year, I can't pay anywhere near the $40K you are looking for."
What I wanted to say: "Are you kidding me?!? I haven't made $24K since I graduated from college 15 years ago."
What I actually said: "Oh! That is a shame then. I'm sorry that our salary numbers aren't closer. But it has been such a pleasure to meet you and I really appreciate your taking out the time today to meet with me."
Environmental science is such a weird bubble. There are far more people getting this degree than there are jobs to go around. I was lucky/set myself up to be lucky and found a job quickly after grad school, but I've had friends with Masters degrees be offered $25,000 with a straight face. It's almost akin to something like theatre or music where many people with the degree move on to other fields. Most of us have a solid stats background, so many end up in the financial world. Others work in straight biology labs.
I negotiated a bit to get my current raise, but after being there a couple of years and bringing in two large grants. I'm definitely not against negotiation, but I think you need to be within the ballpark of what your employer can offer.
ETA Most of my nonprofit friends are also at small workplaces (though larger than mine) so it very well could be different within my field too. There's only one very large group operating in my state, The Nature Conservancy, and I haven't seen them post anything in a while.
Big, nonprofits with flexible salary negotiations and benefits are few to non-existent. The majority of nonprofits in my area don't make money like the big ones. If the state and federal say you get X per year, millage funds provide X and foundations give X, there's no extra money unless you take from those being served, which would never happen.