Money Matters
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cash envelope

Happy Tuesday! Do any of you use the Cash envelope system and if so what categories do you use and if you have money left over at the end of the month in your envelopes, what do you do with it? Do you roll it over to the next month, spend it, or save it?
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Re: cash envelope

  • I started the system at the beginning of the year and I use it for
    gas
    manicure/pedicure
    spending money
    groceries
    toiletries
    so far, I have lost 20.00 and I do track everything. It is starting to become a hassle thought. It really takes discipline. I'm thinking about switching to using the credit Card. IDK
  • I started the system at the beginning of the year and I use it for
    gas
    manicure/pedicure
    spending money
    groceries
    toiletries
    so far, I have lost 20.00 and I do track everything. It is starting to become a hassle thought. It really takes discipline. I'm thinking about switching to using the credit Card. IDK

    We don't use cash. I personally find it harder to be meticulous about watching every dollar that way. We put everything on a credit card and pay it off weekly. Credit cards certainly aren't for everyone, but paying them off throughout the month, instead of by billing cycle, helps keep us honest and on track with our budget. What are your financial goals? How are you managing your other money (i.e. housing, utilities, bills, insurance, etc.)?
    HeartlandHustle | Personal Finance and Betterment Blog  
  • I don't use a cash system, and I only carry a minimal amount on me at any time.  I've been robbed before, and I work in a part of the city that's on the up-and-up, but still transitional.  There are a lot of homeless people who hang around our office building, and we have 24 hr security.  I know some people swear by the envelope method, but TBH it just seems really insecure to me, at least for people who live or work in cities.  

    We use CC's too.  We pay ours off monthly, but I look at them every day and track what we spent from the day before, so it keeps us honest.  Actually, when I do have cash I just fritter it away, whereas I'm forced to look at the purchases I've made on my cards every single day.  Emotionally, I find it easier to spend cash than swipe a card.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • We use the cash system for a lot of our monthly categories, although to be honest we've gotten away from it the past few months (I normally get cash and set them up each month but going to the bank and funding time for that hasn't happened lately). Our cash envelope funds are: grocery, restaurant, entertainment, cleaning, clothing, hair cuts, post office and crafts. Our spending money is also cash every month. And I'm the exact opposite of hoffse on this one! I hate spending cash, it's more real to me for some reason.
    image
  • I don't do it - we keep our tally on receipts every month and I can tell if we are about to go over without using cash.  I keep $20 in my wallet and that's it.
    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • Happy Tuesday! Do any of you use the Cash envelope system and if so what categories do you use and if you have money left over at the end of the month in your envelopes, what do you do with it? Do you roll it over to the next month, spend it, or save it?

    We don't use cash just because we want the credit card cash-back and we like that it's easier to track out spending. I would save it or roll it over to the next month depending on the category. For example our groceries are sometimes higher or lower depending on if we need to do a Costco stock-up so that is a good line item to have rolling. If it were for non-essentials like salon services or restaurants I would probably save the difference. I definitely wouldn't spend it just to spend it. 
  • I primarily use credit cards for almost all of my purchases...at least the ones I can.  But I'm also not a track down every dollar kind of budgeter.  I have one spreadsheet that tracks the balances on my loans/credit cards along with due dates.  I also include on that spreadsheet what money I will be receiving when.

    Then I have a different spreadsheet that has all my specific bills listed on one side...with conservative averages for the ones that vary (ie energy, groceries, etc.)...and the other side has my monthly income streams (not including mystery shopping, because that varies way too much).

    Other than that, I typically like to carry $100-$200 cash on me and have another $100 in my checking account.  I also keep a $1,000 e-fund.  At the present time, any excess money outside of that pays down my HELOC balance.

    I could see envelopes with cash maybe being a good idea if I kept myself on a strict budget, but I'll admit I don't.  Other than to just watch my expenses and purchases, in general.

  • We use a mix of debit cards and cash.  We use cash in the categories we know we're bound to go over in.  So mostly groceries/toiletries and eating out.  Debit is just easier for us at the gas pump and almost any other purchases. 

    I actually keep the envelopes at home and we pull from them when needed.  So we budget $100 for eating out.  My H and I both take a $20 bill out at the beginning of the month.  I put a colored paper clip on it so I know it's earmarked for something. When we run out in our wallet, then we grab more from the envelope.  Once it's gone, it's gone.  We also put the receipts into the envelope and write on the front of the envelope, how much we started with and where each penny was spent at.  Just makes it easier to keep track of.  Using cash actually keeps us more accountable.  If I forget to grab more cash so I can eat out for lunch, it doesn't even run through my head to use the debit card because I know we have the money sitting at home for that purchase.  So then I just don't eat out (probably a good thing).
    I also put $100 into my wallet at the beginning of the month, for groceries.  If I know it's going to be a heavier grocery trip, I will put more in.  But this way I can stop at the store after work and pick up the few essentials needed. If it's getting low toward the end of the month (always does), then I know that I need to get more savvy with my meal planning or we need to revisit the budget and see if we can add more to the envelope.
    If there's any money left over, depending on how much it is, we will sometimes just carry it over to the next month.  Many times we deposit it and put that amount toward whatever goal we're working on.  So it used to go toward debt, even if it was only $20 extra.  Now we will toss it into H's Roth IRA. 

    TTC since 1/13  DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
    Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
    1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system. 
    Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
    Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340  Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
    Riley Elaine born 2/16/15

    TTC 2.0   6/15 
    Chemical Pregnancy 9/15 
    Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
    BFP 9/16  EDD 6/3/17
    Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
    www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com 
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  • I kind of using the envelope system. We use our debit cards to pay for things. I use GoodBudget app to track my spending. It's an online envelope system. This way is easier for us to track money. Every Monday at lunch time I update the information and take care of bills. I make envelopes for everything. I've got the normal stuff like the utilities and mortgage, insurance, etc. But I also have envelopes for annual expenses like dog tags, license plate, zoo membership renewal, magazine subscription renewal. I take the total annual cost & split it up over 12 months. So when any of those items come up, I have the money saved up & don't have to worry about killing that month's budget. If we have anything left over, I roll it over to the next month. When there seems to be a decent surplus, I'll take some from it and make an extra payment towards paying down debt.
  • I also use the GoodBudget app which is a virtual envelope system.  We have the premium account so we have unlimited number of envelopes.

    Our big categories are:
    1: Mortgage/Utilities/Cell Phones (all lumped together)
    2: Groceries/Supplies
    3: Fun Money for each of us

    We also have a lot of savings categories for gifts, ROTHs, car insurance and a smaller sinking fund.
    Formerly AprilH81
    photo composite_14153800476219jpg

  • We use it. Except for gas. I got a wallet with 8 dividers from amazon for $16. It has worked wonderful for me. It is easier as I don't have to carry special envelops and look for "the one" I need. 

    We do:
    EVERY DAY SPENDING CATEGORIES:
    -Home improvement (home decor, or things we need for the house)
    -Entreteinment
    -Eating out
    -Personal care (haircuts, nails, etc)
    -Kids (toys, special treats)
    -clothes
    -Supermarket (groceries, toiletries) 
    -Miscellaneous

    KEEP AT HOME ENVELOPS
    -Cars (maintenance)
    -Vacation
    -New car (we save in advance and pay cash. We did this with the last two cars and we love it)
    -Christmas presents
    -Birthday parties for our children





  • We use it. Except for gas. I got a wallet with 8 dividers from amazon for $16. It has worked wonderful for me. It is easier as I don't have to carry special envelops and look for "the one" I need. 

    We do:
    EVERY DAY SPENDING CATEGORIES:
    -Home improvement (home decor, or things we need for the house)
    -Entreteinment
    -Eating out
    -Personal care (haircuts, nails, etc)
    -Kids (toys, special treats)
    -clothes
    -Supermarket (groceries, toiletries) 
    -Miscellaneous

    KEEP AT HOME ENVELOPS
    -Cars (maintenance)
    -Vacation
    -New car (we save in advance and pay cash. We did this with the last two cars and we love it)
    -Christmas presents
    -Birthday parties for our children


    Do you keep ALL of the cash in an envelope at home? Or do you save to it and transfer it to a savings account eventually? I would be so nervous keeping that much cash around! 



  • We use it. Except for gas. I got a wallet with 8 dividers from amazon for $16. It has worked wonderful for me. It is easier as I don't have to carry special envelops and look for "the one" I need. 

    We do:
    EVERY DAY SPENDING CATEGORIES:
    -Home improvement (home decor, or things we need for the house)
    -Entreteinment
    -Eating out
    -Personal care (haircuts, nails, etc)
    -Kids (toys, special treats)
    -clothes
    -Supermarket (groceries, toiletries) 
    -Miscellaneous

    KEEP AT HOME ENVELOPS
    -Cars (maintenance)
    -Vacation
    -New car (we save in advance and pay cash. We did this with the last two cars and we love it)
    -Christmas presents
    -Birthday parties for our children


    Do you keep ALL of the cash in an envelope at home? Or do you save to it and transfer it to a savings account eventually? I would be so nervous keeping that much cash around! 




    I paid for my current car using a credit card (and then immediately paid the balance). I ended up making over $100 that way! We will plan to do the same with our next cars, though you have to be sure the dealership doesn't tack on an extra charge.
    HeartlandHustle | Personal Finance and Betterment Blog  
  • We use debit and credit for mainly everything. The only "cash" we carry is our fun money we get bi-weekly.
  • als1982 said:
    We use it. Except for gas. I got a wallet with 8 dividers from amazon for $16. It has worked wonderful for me. It is easier as I don't have to carry special envelops and look for "the one" I need. 

    We do:
    EVERY DAY SPENDING CATEGORIES:
    -Home improvement (home decor, or things we need for the house)
    -Entreteinment
    -Eating out
    -Personal care (haircuts, nails, etc)
    -Kids (toys, special treats)
    -clothes
    -Supermarket (groceries, toiletries) 
    -Miscellaneous

    KEEP AT HOME ENVELOPS
    -Cars (maintenance)
    -Vacation
    -New car (we save in advance and pay cash. We did this with the last two cars and we love it)
    -Christmas presents
    -Birthday parties for our children


    Do you keep ALL of the cash in an envelope at home? Or do you save to it and transfer it to a savings account eventually? I would be so nervous keeping that much cash around! 




    I paid for my current car using a credit card (and then immediately paid the balance). I ended up making over $100 that way! We will plan to do the same with our next cars, though you have to be sure the dealership doesn't tack on an extra charge.
    I did something similar. I knew how much cash I had available for a downpayment. I put as much on my cc that the dealership would allow. Which in my area is usually about $2,000. Paid it off when the bill came & got some nice reward points.
  • I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 
  • I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 

    honestly it needs to be whatever keeps you on track the most. You really aren't earning any interest on that bit of $ every month even if you have it in an account. The safety peice also doesn't bother me. Nobody knows we have a decent amount of cash in the house but family, and we keep them in such an odd spot if we ever do get robbed or something they most likely wouldn't be found.
    image
  • I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 

    honestly it needs to be whatever keeps you on track the most. You really aren't earning any interest on that bit of $ every month even if you have it in an account. The safety peice also doesn't bother me. Nobody knows we have a decent amount of cash in the house but family, and we keep them in such an odd spot if we ever do get robbed or something they most likely wouldn't be found.
    I agree - do what you gotta do! I was more worried about the interest/savings for long-term savings, not the monthly spending. 
  • I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 

    honestly it needs to be whatever keeps you on track the most. You really aren't earning any interest on that bit of $ every month even if you have it in an account. The safety peice also doesn't bother me. Nobody knows we have a decent amount of cash in the house but family, and we keep them in such an odd spot if we ever do get robbed or something they most likely wouldn't be found.
    This is us too.  We keep our cash envelopes at home, and we have additional cash at home beyond that.  We've joked that if anything were to ever happen to us, our family better check every knook and cranny for cash because it's hidden in weird places.

    TTC since 1/13  DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
    Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
    1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system. 
    Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
    Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340  Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
    Riley Elaine born 2/16/15

    TTC 2.0   6/15 
    Chemical Pregnancy 9/15 
    Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
    BFP 9/16  EDD 6/3/17
    Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
    www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com 
                        Image and video hosting by TinyPic

  • I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 

    We bought a small safe and keep most of our cash in there at home... as well as some in a couple other hiding places.  It's bolted to the wall & floor, so any thief would have a very hard time taking the safe.  And it's fire proof, so all my money won't burn up in a house fire.  We transfer longer term savings, like for car, to bank regularly.  But, we keep a decent amount at home.  I like the security of knowing I have cash instantly available, day or night, if something comes up.  Or if the banks were to have issues and close or limit withdraws, like they did in Greece or Great Depression, I know that I have cash available to me.  I know that a major banking disaster like that is unlikely, but it's not unheard of.
  • I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 

    We bought a small safe and keep most of our cash in there at home... as well as some in a couple other hiding places.  It's bolted to the wall & floor, so any thief would have a very hard time taking the safe.  And it's fire proof, so all my money won't burn up in a house fire.  We transfer longer term savings, like for car, to bank regularly.  But, we keep a decent amount at home.  I like the security of knowing I have cash instantly available, day or night, if something comes up.  Or if the banks were to have issues and close or limit withdraws, like they did in Greece or Great Depression, I know that I have cash available to me.  I know that a major banking disaster like that is unlikely, but it's not unheard of.
    Bolting it down like that is a great idea. I have a small firesafe, but it didn't have that option. Do you mind my asking where you got it, @princessleia22?
  • lbonga1 said:
    I agree with using a card to get the rewards, I was just concerned by the "cash envelopes at home" piece. I would keep it in an Ally savings account (1) so it's safer and (2) so it earns interest. 

    We bought a small safe and keep most of our cash in there at home... as well as some in a couple other hiding places.  It's bolted to the wall & floor, so any thief would have a very hard time taking the safe.  And it's fire proof, so all my money won't burn up in a house fire.  We transfer longer term savings, like for car, to bank regularly.  But, we keep a decent amount at home.  I like the security of knowing I have cash instantly available, day or night, if something comes up.  Or if the banks were to have issues and close or limit withdraws, like they did in Greece or Great Depression, I know that I have cash available to me.  I know that a major banking disaster like that is unlikely, but it's not unheard of.
    Bolting it down like that is a great idea. I have a small firesafe, but it didn't have that option. Do you mind my asking where you got it, @princessleia22?

    I have one also and got it for about $220 at Costco a few months ago.  However, they don't normally carry them.  It was one of those special vendors who will set up a manned display for a week or two.  In my research, I also found a wide selection on Amazon for under $300.  You can get smaller ones for even cheaper than that.  Mine is about 2.5'-3' high and 2' wide.

    The one thing that irritates me is, its almost but not quite big enough to fit legal papers in it.  2 more inches on the inside and it would.  So now the closing documents from the properties I've purchased can't lie flat and have to lie across it diagonally.  A minor thing, but legal sized papers seem like such a normal thing to put it in, I find it odd they come didn't make it just a tiny bit bigger to achieve that. 

  • Funny this came up, I was just reading a special series on our local paper's website about the problem with illegal guns trafficking going on in our city.  They were specifically focusing on that most of those guns are obtained through theft.  There was handy advice for gun owners about the dos and don'ts of gun storage.

    One guy they interviewed had one of those big gun safes...bolted to the floor and the wall.  He said it weighed over 300 lbs., with the guns he had in it.  But that didn't stop thieves from breaking into his house during the day while he was at work.  They took the time to get the safe removed from the wall and the floor and then carried the whole giant shebang out of the house.  The gun safe with his guns inside was the only thing stolen.  I forget what his specific job was, but it is one where he does carry a gun and wears that type of uniform.  He suspected he had been specifically targeted because the robbers assumed (correctly) that he would have weapons in the house.

  • edited February 2016
    It's a small floor safe we found used on Craigslist.  If you look online for small floor safes, they should say if they include a bolt-down kit.  Of course, you also need to make sure you have floors and/or walls that you are able to bolt into. 

    ETA: Ours is about 1'x1'x1' interior dimensions.  We keep copies of rarely needed critical documents (insurance, etc) and originals of anything we may need to access somewhat regularly (passports or birth certificates) in here and keep originals of most other documents in a safe deposit box at the bank. We also keep a written list of important contacts (addresses & phone numbers), like family or close friends.

  • Funny this came up, I was just reading a special series on our local paper's website about the problem with illegal guns trafficking going on in our city.  They were specifically focusing on that most of those guns are obtained through theft.  There was handy advice for gun owners about the dos and don'ts of gun storage.

    One guy they interviewed had one of those big gun safes...bolted to the floor and the wall.  He said it weighed over 300 lbs., with the guns he had in it.  But that didn't stop thieves from breaking into his house during the day while he was at work.  They took the time to get the safe removed from the wall and the floor and then carried the whole giant shebang out of the house.  The gun safe with his guns inside was the only thing stolen.  I forget what his specific job was, but it is one where he does carry a gun and wears that type of uniform.  He suspected he had been specifically targeted because the robbers assumed (correctly) that he would have weapons in the house.

    Yeah, if burglars are going to go to that extreme, there's nothing you can do to really protect your stuff.
  • Funny this came up, I was just reading a special series on our local paper's website about the problem with illegal guns trafficking going on in our city.  They were specifically focusing on that most of those guns are obtained through theft.  There was handy advice for gun owners about the dos and don'ts of gun storage.

    One guy they interviewed had one of those big gun safes...bolted to the floor and the wall.  He said it weighed over 300 lbs., with the guns he had in it.  But that didn't stop thieves from breaking into his house during the day while he was at work.  They took the time to get the safe removed from the wall and the floor and then carried the whole giant shebang out of the house.  The gun safe with his guns inside was the only thing stolen.  I forget what his specific job was, but it is one where he does carry a gun and wears that type of uniform.  He suspected he had been specifically targeted because the robbers assumed (correctly) that he would have weapons in the house.


    **************************************************

    Now that's determination!

    H just bolted our gun safe to the cement floor in the closet in our family room.  It's right by our front door, which I proceeded to tell him probably wasn't the best place for it.  But it's easily 250 pounds and it's bolted to cement.  
    Yet our personal safe is sitting right next to it, not bolted down and probably weighs 100 pounds.  I joked with him that a thief will be better off with our personal safe because the title to all our vehicles and deed to our house are in there. Along with our wills and our "if we die" paperwork that has all account numbers and investment information listed on it. 
    What's sad, is that the gun safe and our TV's would be the first things to be stolen. The thieves in our area wouldn't know what to do with the personal information.

    TTC since 1/13  DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
    Clomid 50mg 9/13 = BFP! EDD 6/7/14 M/C 5w6d Found 11/4/13
    1/14 PCOS / Gluten Free Diet to hopefully regulate my system. 
    Chemical Pregnancy 03/14
    Surprise BFP 6/14, Beta #1: 126 Beta #2: 340  Stick baby, stick! EDD 2/17/15
    Riley Elaine born 2/16/15

    TTC 2.0   6/15 
    Chemical Pregnancy 9/15 
    Chemical Pregnancy 6/16
    BFP 9/16  EDD 6/3/17
    Beta #1: 145 Beta #2: 376 Beta #3: 2,225 Beta #4: 4,548
    www.5yearstonever.blogspot.com 
                        Image and video hosting by TinyPic

  • We don't use cash envelopes for our day-to-day expenses, but we take $100 cash out of every paycheck to keep in our "oh shit" fund at home. We use the cash when we need it and we also take our vacation spending out of there. We keep it in a pocket of the gun safe. I thought H was crazy when he bought it, but it really has come in handy. It is 1100 pounds empty, so I'm not worried about someone getting it out, it's a total nightmare to move. I told H when we moved into this house that if/when we move again, it's staying here. We'll buy another one when we get where we're going.
  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited February 2016
    brij2006 said:

    Funny this came up, I was just reading a special series on our local paper's website about the problem with illegal guns trafficking going on in our city.  They were specifically focusing on that most of those guns are obtained through theft.  There was handy advice for gun owners about the dos and don'ts of gun storage.

    One guy they interviewed had one of those big gun safes...bolted to the floor and the wall.  He said it weighed over 300 lbs., with the guns he had in it.  But that didn't stop thieves from breaking into his house during the day while he was at work.  They took the time to get the safe removed from the wall and the floor and then carried the whole giant shebang out of the house.  The gun safe with his guns inside was the only thing stolen.  I forget what his specific job was, but it is one where he does carry a gun and wears that type of uniform.  He suspected he had been specifically targeted because the robbers assumed (correctly) that he would have weapons in the house.


    **************************************************

    Now that's determination!

    H just bolted our gun safe to the cement floor in the closet in our family room.  It's right by our front door, which I proceeded to tell him probably wasn't the best place for it.  But it's easily 250 pounds and it's bolted to cement.  
    Yet our personal safe is sitting right next to it, not bolted down and probably weighs 100 pounds.  I joked with him that a thief will be better off with our personal safe because the title to all our vehicles and deed to our house are in there. Along with our wills and our "if we die" paperwork that has all account numbers and investment information listed on it. 
    What's sad, is that the gun safe and our TV's would be the first things to be stolen. The thieves in our area wouldn't know what to do with the personal information.

    I thought so, too!  I mean, certainly anchoring a safe to a floor and/or wall is still a great idea, but nothing is perfect.

    Before reality tv made them common knowledge and popular, I used to go to the occasional storage unit auction.  I only ever bought one unit, but it had the deed to the peoples' house in one of the boxes.  At the beginning of the auction, management had said, although we weren't obligated, that if we found any personal photos, we could take them to the front office and those types of things would be returned to their owners.  So, I put a box together with the photos I had found and the deed and gave that all to the office.  Though, one of the photos was in a frame I liked so I snagged that!

    But it was also a good lesson to not keep personal documents in a storage unit if one is not going to pay the bill.  Not that I'm creepy :)!  But it was kind of creepy.  I knew what these people looked like.  I had their credit card and bank statements which, of course, include their names, addresses, and account numbers.  I had a few older years of W-2s and tax returns, with their incomes and SSNs and places they worked.  I mean, I was quickly flipping through the papers to see if there might be bills hidden between, so I didn't read any of it.  But it would have been a serious treasure trove for an identity thief.

    And that the wife was a serious collector of seashell stuff.  So, so, so many items with a seashell motif. 

  • short+sassy said:
    The one thing that irritates me is, its almost but not quite big enough to fit legal papers in it.  2 more inches on the inside and it would.  So now the closing documents from the properties I've purchased can't lie flat and have to lie across it diagonally.  A minor thing, but legal sized papers seem like such a normal thing to put it in, I find it odd they come didn't make it just a tiny bit bigger to achieve that. 
    I was thinking this same thing.  I hate folding stuff like that.
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  • Funny this came up, I was just reading a special series on our local paper's website about the problem with illegal guns trafficking going on in our city.  They were specifically focusing on that most of those guns are obtained through theft.  There was handy advice for gun owners about the dos and don'ts of gun storage.

    One guy they interviewed had one of those big gun safes...bolted to the floor and the wall.  He said it weighed over 300 lbs., with the guns he had in it.  But that didn't stop thieves from breaking into his house during the day while he was at work.  They took the time to get the safe removed from the wall and the floor and then carried the whole giant shebang out of the house.  The gun safe with his guns inside was the only thing stolen.  I forget what his specific job was, but it is one where he does carry a gun and wears that type of uniform.  He suspected he had been specifically targeted because the robbers assumed (correctly) that he would have weapons in the house.

    I have a friend of mine who had a massive gun safe.  Had it stolen out of his house twice.  They left everything else and the safe was found in the yard behind them twice.  The second time with a blanket over it.  It took 3 of us to get it back in the house and that was with it empty!
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