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Second wedding gifts
I had this conversation with my mom and sister yesterday and thought I would ask your opinions on the subject.
My cousin is the same age as me and about to get married for the second time. She has a daughter from the first marriage. They are having a huge, 200 person wedding. I am going to the wedding and planning on giving her a gift. However, my mom said that she wasn't sure she wanted to give more money to cousin because she already gave her a large wedding present once and this marriage has about as much hope as the first one. The couple asked for money via a cheesy poem (which I will post later). My sister consulted with Emily Post who says that no, you don't have to give a gift if the couple have both been married before. I am still planning to give her something as I was only 18 for her first wedding and "gave" a gift with my parents, plus she gave me very nice things for my shower and wedding.
What would you do? Would you give another gift? Something small? Thoughts?
Re: Second wedding gifts
This is a predicament.
On one side you have the pros of cash gift
- didn't technically give for the first wedding
- she gifted you for shower and wedding
Cons --
- doubtful longevity of her second marriage
- her tackiness in ASKING FOR MONEY
If it were me, I'd give a small gift, maybe something meaningful, like a themed gift. I wouldn't give cash out of spite for her blatant greed in the form of her poem.
Lucy Elizabeth 10.27.12
Tackiness of the poem aside (this would irritate me) I think that if I planned on attending a wedding, whether it was the couple's first or 14th, I'd give a gift, definitely if I planned on going. The way is see it is that a wedding a a huge party where they serve you food and provide entertainment. A gift is a sort-of thank you for that. I mean, I know thats not REALLY what the gift is for (emily post would die if she heard me say that), but it kinda is. That aside, I'd stil want to give her congrats her on her second try.
It's pretty tacky to ask for money.
But it's also pretty tacky to predict the failure of another person's marriage. Realistically, many(most?) marriages fail, and yeah, you can probably see some of them coming, but are you actually going to say to this person, "I don't think you deserve a gift because your husband will probably leave you."??? Because that's what not sending anything says. It says you don't approve of the marriage, (or you don't have the money, or you couldn't be bothered, or the person isn't worth it... but do you want this person to think you think any of those things?)
This person is close enough to you that she gifted you for your shower and your wedding. Why are you holding her first marriage against her? She's had to deal with the unfortunate experience of a marriage breaking up and now she's been lucky enough to get a second chance. Doesn't she have the right to celebrate?
Are people allowed to have showers for their second baby? (I honestly don't know) Because they already got all the stuff they needed from the first kid. So, do you not celebrate the second one? This seems like the same thing.
I'm not saying anyone should spend as much as they did on her first marriage... she's probably asking for $$ because they both already have all of the expensive domestic appliances one usually gets for a first marriage. She may think she's saving people the trouble of trying to figure out what they need. In most cases, weddings, like birthdays and other celebrations, are traditionally marked by gift-giving. By not giving a gift, you are sending a message, whether you want to or not.
I would probably give the $$. But I tend to give $$ for first weddings too. Also, just because she was tacky enough to ask for it, doesn't mean you should be rude enough to overlook what she wants/needs. The wedding is meant to celebrate a happy moment in her life. Let her have it. Write a nice message in the card, and be the bigger person.
First and foremost, asking for money is tacky. Thinking you can get away with it and make it less tacky with a poem, makes her even more tacky. Everything else aside, I would not give the couple money ( I ALWAYS give money as a wedding gift, then again, I've never been to a wedding where someone asked for it. If that was the case, I would give them a cheap gift of their registry).
For the PP who asked about baby showers, typically no, you don't have a shower for your second child. (Some circles do, but it's not typical).
I don't think anything else is important from the OP. First or 15th marriage I would still give a gift, however, the asking for money thing is the part that you should be concerned about.
And for the PP who said that they probably do need money, yes, this is true. We really didn't need anything of the crap we registered for either, seeing as we had already been living together for 3 years, but I wasn't about to ask for money. This couple should probably just not register and keep their traps shut. People will get the point when they don't have a registry that they would prefer money.
It's like Shag lives in my head. After I posted originally, I realized it wasn't the second marriage part that left a bad taste in my mouth - it really is mostly the mention of money. I hate it. I hate the assumption of gifts, and that one can instruct WHAT gift they should receive. Yes, I had a registry, but it was not mentioned anywhere in my invitations, unlike all of the other invites I've ever received. People still found out where we were registered without me advertising it all over the damn place.
Anyway... give whatever you feel the need to give. I can pretty much understand your mom's reluctance in wanting to give AGAIN, especially if she's thinking "Wonder how many weddings I'll be giving for the next 10 years for the same person." But PP is right - your gift shouldn't depend on the longevity of the marriage. Wouldn't you be upset if your guests had those thoughts about YOUR marriage?
Lucy Elizabeth 10.27.12
Thanks Shag, I clearly misunderstood the purpose of the shower (I didn't have a bridal shower, and my friends haven't had baby showers yet). I thought you were celebrating the kid coming (so you'd have one for each kid), but I guess it's really about preparing the couple with all the stuff they'll need (so you'd only need to do it once). Which makes sense too.
On Topic: I stand by what I said before, although Cruella was more succinct. I'd definitely gift them if I was going to the wedding. Re: their request: They want money. I'd give them the money. Why waste time choosing and wrapping something they don't want? (I am certainly not condoning the asking for money, which is Seriously Tacky and Uncool. But it's too late to worry about that now. They went there. Now, are you going to take your time an energy to be spiteful, or are you just going to do what will make them happy on their "special day"? If you feel it is your duty to educate them on their tackiness, get them a copy of Emily Post and stick a twenty in it.)
Now, I'd really like to see the cheesy poem that someone thought made it ok to ask for money in the first place
Ditto everyone else...
But I do have to defend the OP on the longevity of marriage - yes, while not nice to judge others, I do occasionally (cough... ok, maybe a lot) guesstimate how long people are going to stay married. Esp if the circumstances are shady - ie, the couple's only known each other for a few months, suddenly having a huge wedding, only asking for money, etc. I'm not saying OP's relatives are doing this, but I've given the side eye to many of these marriages. And, frankly, I don't know many of them that have stayed together.
Now, of course any marriage can stay together and any can fail, but... if cousin Sally dated Steve for 6 months, they got married, I gave $250... then they divorced, and then Sally dated Joe for 6 months and now THEY'RE getting married... I don't think I'd give $250 again.
See I would give less money, not because it's a second marriage and may not last, but because the person is in a different stage of her life. "Usually" a first marriage is a younger person, who may not have the savings that a person will have later in life. The younger person would need more to get started.
On the other hand, traditionally mom and dad paid for the first one, and she should be paying for this one herself, in which case she'd need more money.
I think it's a little... judgemental to give less because you think they won't last. I mean, unless it's completely obvious that the wedding is a scam, and they just want the money... which would be a rare occurance, I would think.
When B's cousin got married last year and asked for cash, we got them a relatively expensive non-returnable/ refundable figurine of a couple embracing in wedding attire.
That's not being biitchy... right?
I wanna know the back story. How old was she when she got married the first time? How long did it last? How old is the daughter? How long has she been with new guy? Etc...
To be honest, I can't/wouldn't answer your question without knowing that. When I buy/send a gift for an event, I DO factor in all of that. I don't have a set budget for a wedding. I think about all things involved -- is cash going to help them more? Are they just starting out and in desperate need of things like towels, or do they have an apartment and would a cool vase or art book be better? Do I think the marriage is a legitimate step, or do I think she's being an idiot? All of that plays into if/what I give for a gift.
Plus, I'm just really curious about what OP's cousin's deal is....
I guess I just don't see the passive aggressive move having the desired outcome (that they learn not to ask for money). They're just going to think, "jeez, Shag obviously can't read. We ASKED for money. AND no gift receipt? What am I supposed to do with this crap I don't want? How rude of Shag."
I'm really liking my Emily Post book idea. Maybe even put the $20 as a bookmark on the page that says not to ask for money. Then they'd get the message. <smirk>
That's hilarious.
It depends...did you INTEND it to be b*tchy? I have a feeling said cousin (if it's the one I'm thinking of...) thought "UGH! WHY did S and B get me THIS?!?!"
This was the cousin who had TWO greenback showers and then asked for cash at her wedding. And had a dollar dance. And a cash bar. And a 3 hour gap between her wedding and reception, which were at the same place. Who I took a week of my time to go to her house and help plan her wedding since her mom - a nurse - ended up needing to work and couldnt get the time off (scheduling issue), who I never got so much as a verbal thank you from.
Trust me, I intended it to be biitchy haha
Haha, that's what I thought!
BTW, did I mention that her dad STILL TO THIS DAY biitches that he had to spend $5k on her - his 26 year old daughter's - wedding?
Did I mention that $5k in MA is almost unheard of!?!
while I understand the draw to give the b!tchy gifts to people who deserve it, if I'm going to use my creative energy to be b!tchy, I want them to KNOW it.
Stjoe, that is awful. I would be worried that they didn't get the message from the tacky figurine though... now if it was a tacky, couple-embracing, non-returnable, nonrefundable bank... with dollar signs in their eyes.... hmmm or maybe you'd have to add a note about how you know their marriage will be just like this figurine - tacky, overpriced and hard to get rid of.
It's fine if they would think I would be rude giving them something they didn't ask for. I am rude, especially when people are blatantly rude to me. Your approach including the Emily Post would be a little more direct and would probably cause some serious hard feelings (although it would be a kick ass way to stick it to them.)
I don't care what stage a person is in their life though, it's never okay to ask for money. Like I said previously, they could have simply not registered at all, and never made mention of anything. In that case, people automatically assume money. They would have gotten what they wanted and looked like complete douchebags.
And judging from the fact they made a poem about it, makes me assume they knew it was wrong to ask for it, but that a poem would relieve some of douchebaggary being committed.
Did your mom expect to get the gift back when the couple divorced? If not, then there should be a gift for the 2nd wedding IMO. You give a gift for a wedding because its the proper thing to do, to help the new married couple start their marriage. Whether they need "stuff" or cash doesnt really matter. These days a lot of newly married couples dont really truly need anything. I know DH and I would have been fine with zero wedding gifts, but its not the right thing to do.
As Cruella alluded to, I feel like you bring a gift because that's part of your "obligation" as a guest, just as the host is "obligated" to provide food/entertainment at the reception. I think not bringing a gift is just as tacky as having a cash bar.
IMO, you can't factor in the 2nd wedding as a reason to not bring a gift. If you dont support the marriage, dont go to the wedding to celebrate it. If you want to give a gift with less value, fine - there is nothing that says a gift must cost $5 or $500. Give what you feel is appropriate for the couple.
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Shag-
I'm not trying to justify the asking for it... I'm more questioning the good of responding to rudeness with rudeness. Isn't sending them something they don't want and can't return also going to "cause some serious hard feelings"? And they won't know why you're being rude. So they'll be mad at you and all self-pitying about it ("what did we do to deserve this?"). They get to play victims to your random rudeness. They'll probably tell other people you're a bad gift giver or something. And maybe you don't care what other people think, but I have to assume eventually it's going to affect you if people start to think you're just randomly rude.
It's much more fun (for me) to feel justifiably self-righteous if the other party knows I'm right too. Plus, if I'm going to make someone mad, I want them to know 1) why I did it and 2) that I did it on purpose.
The "stage of life" thing I said was more aimed at pp who was discussing how much to give, after presumably already having decided to give the money. As you said, it's not ok to ask for it. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that it is ok. Point is, they did ask for it. The OP wants to know what to do now.
It's called being passive agressive. If people have to ask why was she so rude when she's never like that, they at least have to sit there and think, "what did we do to deserve this rudeness." If they can't figure it out, then I guess the joke's on me. If they don't realize it's because they asked for money, I am sorry, but they are the morons. The main reason why I am saying this is b/c it's quite obvious that this couple knew that asking for money was wrong. They went as far as making a stupid poem to lighten up the fact they were asking for it. If they were clueless about the tackiess of it, I would think that they would have just flat out asked for it.
I must have missed your point, but I thought you were trying to justify asking for money depending on what 'life stage' you are in. My bad. I agree though that clearly after you've been living with someone for 5 years, money is the way to go.
You ladies crack me up. I'll answer some of the other questions in a second, but because I KNOW you want to read it. The poem:
More than just kisses so far we've shared
Our home has been made with love and care
Most things we need we?ve already got
Like a toaster and kettle, pans and pots
A wishing well we thought would be great
(but only if you wish to participate)
A gift of money is placed in the well
Then make a wish ? but do not tell
Once we?ve replaced the old with the new
We can look back and say it was thanks to you!
And in return for your kindness we?re sure
that one day soon you'll get what you wished for!
SBS, here's the backstory you asked for.
My cousin is really sweet but isn't known for making great decisions or being very responsible. She was 18 when she got married the first time and was pregnant at the time. Her daughter is now 6. She has been with current FI for about 6 months, he proposed a few weeks ago, and they are getting married in 2 months. She dropped out of college and works a go no where job. Her FI doesn't have a job, and lives with her and her sister (my other cousin).
Oh, I forgot this gem. Her 6 year old daughter is the flower girl...AND MAID OF HONOR
Lucy Elizabeth 10.27.12
No Shag, she is an asshat. I thought the same thing as you, if you are going to replace things, why not register for them?
Also, the first line is 'More than just kisses we've shared.." Does that sound dirty to anyone else?????