August 2006 Weddings
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Was calling him John a strategy?
I was surprised that Senator Obama called him that repeatedly, and believe that he is too smart for it to have been accidental. Then Biden called him John when he was interviewed. Isn't this a bit disrespectful?
Re: Was calling him John a strategy?
It stuck out to me too. ?McCain said Senator Obama consistently throughout the debate, and I prefer the respectful tone of that.
I saw commentary somewhere that said the Obama campaign got into the first names habit with HRC and hasn't seemed to drop it yet.?
Deductive reasoning isn't a conservative or liberal attribute. ~epphd
Perhaps that is the thinking. Though I am surprised his advisors think this is a good idea.
We were talking about this last night. Both McCain, Obama, and Biden are all in the same body, the Senate. They all share the same title, Senator. It makes sense then that would refer to each other by their first name because this is probably the MO on the floor and offices of the Senate.
For example, when teachers are hanging out in the teachers lounge do they refer to each other as "Mr. X" or "Mrs.Y." ? When doctors hang out in the break room do they refer to each other as "Dr. Z" or "Dr. W"? Probably not.
So....was this something malicious on Obama's part? No way and I think it's a huge GOP leap to make this contention. Should Obama have said "Senator"? Perhaps. But it certainly was not a way to infantilize him or turn him into something less than a senator.
Actually I refer to my fellow teachers as Mr. X and Mrs Y...but thats because I'm so much younger so I see it as a sign of respect.
slightly off topic..just responding to LMW's example
I definitely think it was strategy. You know how much they practiced for these debates. Something like this is not accidental.?
I think he did it b/c he needed to show he is an equal to McCain on this issue. McCain has infinitely more experience than Obama on foreign policy so by calling him John he's reminding everyone they are equals. Subtle, but I think that's why he did it. ?
But this wasn't on the floor of the Senate amongst peers. Although not exactly the same, this would be similar to my calling a fellow teacher by his/her first name in front of an auditorium full of students.
And..why is it such a huge leap to think that Obama had an ulterior motive?
I think it was about as much of a strategy as it was a strategy of McCain to call Obama "Senator Obama."
Obama used "John" because the moderator was encouraging the two to speak directly to each other. You only use titles with someone who shares your rank when you are TRYING to keep your distance and be condescending - the essence of what I think McCain was attempting to do.
That really is not true, hrparker. In order to show you respect your opponent, you use their title. You do not call them by their first name so I believe it was a strategy, as caden said, to somehow level the playing field but it just made Obama look like he was above McCain by not using his title, not the other way around. You use first names when they are ranked below you.
Particularly in the south, Obama calling Senator McCain "John" would be considered rude. Titles show respect. You do not call someone by their first name unless they say to do so.
Ummm...not where I'm from.
Actually, where I'm from, you don't use titles at all.
And you definitely don't use titles when you're ranked the same as someone else. Do you refer to your colleagues at work as...wait, I don't know where you work. Let's assume you work in academia. Do the professors call each other Dr. So and So? Nope - or at least nowhere I've ever worked. They call each other Rebecca and Jim. Because they all have PhDs. They only use "Dr. So and So" when they're pissed off at their colleagues.
Take offense if you want, but if a moderator is asking you to speak directly to another person, adding a title is just a way to keep an additional layer of distance between you and the other party. Something that the moderator EXPLICITELY said he wanted to avoid.
Edited: Because, doh! It's difficult to Nest when FI is trying to get me to watch his final battle in Final Fantasy
I was in court not too long ago and an opposing attorney kept calling me "Attorney Mylastname." It felt like he was being condescending and rude (though in all fairness, a part of that was his tone). It was weird. We were having a conference with the judge, so there's no reason why we couldn't be on a first name basis between attorneys, or at minimum, a Mr./Ms. Lastname basis...
Anyway, that's tangential, but I don't think Obama was doing it to be rude, but I do think it was a strategy, and I do think it was effective. When McCain referred to Obama as "Senator Obama," I thought he sounded belittling, not like he was showing respect.
I'm from "the South" too and in my experience, this rule is generally only applied to children, as in a 10-year-old should refer to an adult as Miss So-and-so.
I agree with you that you don't use titles in everyday conversation, but if these professors were presenting something in front of an audience, I can bet they would not say "Rebecca studies such and such". If that is the case, I would be very surprised.
Actually, I was just thinking of that. And I've seen it the way I've described. If professors are referencing another professor who is NOT present, then they use a title (because there good be a ton of John's out in the world). But if they're co-presenting on a topic, then they refer to each other by their first names.
Maybe, but if they were presenting to a large crowd (say a benefit or symposium)-I have always seen it as using titles.
Now, if Obama had done so and they were in a more relaxed setting-say a Town Hall type setting, even on the national stage-it would be completely acceptable. I think here, though, it comes across as condescending/disrespectful.
You could have and I would have answered a resounding yes for I am not blind to what McCain did. I don't think all are blind to what Obama did, but there are some that will. They both were, at times, talking at the other instead of to them.
I didn't watch the debate, and I don't think I would have been been bothered by Obama's use of 'John' or McCain's use of 'Senator Obama'. However, my very feminist but otherwise moderate dem friend remarked at discomfort at the frequent use of 'George Bush' at the DNC as opposed to President Bush (or 'the current administration'). She's no fan of his, but she found it disrespectful in an inappropriate way. (Since we're talking about regions, she's from a tiny tourist town in Wisconsin and has lived in NYC for the past 4 years).
I also agree with the poster who noted the difference between teachers or doctors referring to each other with their titles when speaking to each other in front of their students or patients. Do you get that difference?
Yes of course I get the difference. My point wasn't to suggest that debating in front of a crowd and talking amongst equals is the exact same thing. My point point was that Senators are most likely on a first name basis when working in the Senate. So saying "John" is probably the norm for Obama and probably the reason why he referred to him as John when speaking to him. I see it more as a slip rather than a strategy to make him "less than."
FWIW, I also disagree with the Dems when they refer to the President as George Bush in a public sphere such as the convention.
I prefer to call it a strategery. :-) Yes, I think it was intentional and an attempt to
1) seem like McCain's equal in stature
2) appear like a "good guy," jovial and friendly
Can I just say that I thought Jim Lehrer's attempt to have the two candidates have a conversation was just plain silly? When he said that, all I could think was "You can't be serious". I suspect that McCain thought it was silly too...and that is why he continued to call Obama as Senator.
?
