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shoeaholic0403
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Healthcare reform bill
Discuss...
Re: Healthcare reform bill
It's not perfect, but I think it's a step in the right direction.
I liked this breakdown of it, it was helpful since I refused to follow anything until after it was passed. There was too much going on to wrap my brain around all of the changes and discussions.
I wonder how many people who are against the bill have never had to purchase their own health insurance or make a decision regarding keeping health insurance or risking it w/o because they can't afford it due to UE, other circumstances, etc. Prior to losing my job I probably would've seen it a bit differently, but now that I've had to go through finding my own insurance and seeing the astronomical costs associated with plans, I'm a bit more sympathetic to the un/underinsured and those who cannot get health insurance on a private plan due to preexisting conditions.
Well, I think most of you could probably figure out MY leaning on this particular topic. I'm not in favor of it, though, yes, there are definitely some nice talking points. My point of view is that at best, this is a states rights issue....but more simply, why don't they make self-provided insurance tax deductable? I think that would be a major step in the right direction and still really NOT get the federal government involved at all. I just don't trust the government to efficiently moderate all of these programs and follow through with all these wonderful promises.
I have had to pay for my own health insurance, was overwhelmed by the cost and cannot believe (nor could I believe) that it wasn't tax deductible. Seriously!! I do wonder how this will affect the owners of my small business and will be interesting to see what drips down to me.
And when it does (eventually) hit all our pocket books, I will cynically remind you of one thing: when it comes to government, there is no bottom to the taxpayers pockets.
I did read this morning in the slideshow I posted that small business owners would get incentives (tax credits) for providing insurance. This is intended to offset the cost of the insurance. There was a statistic that 95% (although that seems high to me, but I didn't do the study!) of small business owners offer some sort of insurance to their employees. I'm not sure that it would have a negative effect on the rest of the country.
Sorry I posted and ran. I meant to come back and contribute to the discussion, but I got stuck.
Like charch I didn't pay a lot of attention to the bill up to now. I knew it was there & had a vague understanding, but I never really thought they'd pass it to be honest. I'm going to go read the link so maybe I can contribute a little better to the conversation.
ITA. This thought has crossed my mind a lot.
I don't know that this bill is really the perfect answer but at least they are doing something. But is there a perfect way to handle the health care issues in the US? No.Nothing is going to make everyone happy. Utopia doesn't exist.
Derky brigs up a good point about the tax deduction. I hadn't really thought about it because until recently we hadn't looked at self insuring.
Sadly, the board just isn't the same anymore. I miss all the discussions we used to have.
I think what annoys me most about those who are against it are the ones that take a "failure is imminent" attitude towards the whole thing. OK, so this bill isn't perfect, so give us an alternative. Don't just say this new plan is a terrible idea and continue to believe that what is in place is working. It isn't.
I talked to a friend today about it. I knew exactly what she was going to say, but I couldn't help myself asking anyway. To her the whole thing is ridiculous and there was nothing wrong with the system we had in place.
Also, I think in general it is the American way to be resistant to change, so something this big was never going to go over well.
And with your last statement, I think you hit the nail on the head. While I'm not overly thrilled with the bill, being that we don't know what kind of fallout there's going to be in the future, something had to be done and that something had to start somewhere. Change is never easy, no matter how small or big it is.
I may have a different opinion than other people because I have to run the healthcare plan. It's adding legislation to an already heavily-legislated area. The tax credits aren't enough to offset the penalties and added costs that will exist for employers. So many employers can barely afford to provide healthcare as is that this puts them in a no-win situation. Today, health insurance is the second highest cost of my employees (salary is first). I can foresee having to offer a lesser quality plan that has reduced or limited coverages just to be able to afford to provide health insurance.
I've been in the boat of having to buy my own coverage so I am highly cognizant of that side. However, I also see it from the HR side and am very concerned.
Well one of the things my friend said this morning when she was bashing the new bill was "We're just going to turn into Canada!" I admit I rolled my eyes at her.
Like you, I haven't heard anyone from countries with governmental healthcare complaining. I don't think we need to make our plan a carbon copy of theirs. We need to find what works for the US, but at the same time it doesn't scare me like it seems to do with people who are completely opposed to the bill.
I'm not generally a "damn the man" kind of person though. I don't always agree with government intervention, but in this case I think health care has gotten out of control. Having Big Brother step in isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO.
I've been reading the slide show you posted and one of the things that jumped out at me is this:
"Although conservatives like to say that Obamacare represents government takeover of health care, it mostly pushes people into private insurance plans."
That's the general idea I've been getting from most of the information I've read so far. I don't see how making private insurance more attainable is a bad thing. I know that isn't the only thing the bill does, but to me this is a big positive.
PS. I love the word "Obamacare" It makes me giggle.
I'm against it because there are too many other issues that need addressing first. Medicaid anyone? I think they should have taken the time to fix a gov't run healthcare plan that's already in place. Right now it's in shambles. I don't see how introducing a new more widespread plan is a good idea.
My current insurance situation sucks. Yes I have coverage. It costs an arm and a leg and has outrageous deductibles. Is it better than none? Not really. If anything catastrophic happened we'd still be bankrupted. All that said, I'm still against the new plan.
Further, I hear plenty of people complain about Canada's Universal health care.
I'm not adamantly opposed to a health care reform. What I am against is not fixing what already desperately needs to be fixed. Right now they are just creating more problems that will need fixing (read: need money). Who's paying for it? We're already a Go-Zillion dollars in debt as a nation.
Charch, thanks for that article. I hadn't clicked on this post b/c I hadn't had a chance to read much with regard to the reform and that provided a nice overview. I have a really hard time forming much of an opinion on anything bill-related b/c it's hard to anticipate all the different ways it will affect everyone since many who speculate on it seem to have different opinions. I am super happy they are putting an end to the cap of lifetime benefit amounts and to pre-existing conditions. As for everything else, I'm just happy they are doing something - it's ridiculous how long the status quo has been pushed along. Even if some parts of the bill negatively affect me (cost wise), I know that realisitcally I can afford it a lot more than many. Not that I want to afford it, but I can. I'm just glad they are getting some momentum going away from how it is now.
I disagree with it on several different levels! Do I think it's unfair for people w/ pre-existing conditions to be denied insurance? Yes! Do I think it's unfair for the elderly to be without insurance? Yes! Do I think it is extremely sad for children with illnesses to be without insurance? Yes!
Now that we have established I am not a cruel, heartless "meanie", we can move on.
1. How in the heck can a vote be taken on a plan that is over 2,000 pages that was published, what....maybe 3 days before the actual vote? We aren't talking about reading "the cat and the hat" people. Take a look at the bill ladies. A lot of the wording can be left to a matter of interpretation! Really? Do we want our representatives to sign something that is left for interpretation??! If the motives behind this bill were "for the people", then why rush it?
2. Medicaid...a government run program that is bankrupt! Why wouldn't they attempt to fix that?
3. Why not have a "test market" first. See how that went. If it was a success then implement it to the whole country.
4. There are plenty of people in Canada complaining about their health care. Unfortunately, our media doesn't want to cover that story. Is it not strange that Canadians, who get free health care, come to the U.S. to fulfill their medical needs?! (If you didn't know this happens, it does!) Meaning, they have to pay out of pocket expenses. Obviously something is wrong with their health care.
I could go on but I'm sure you are tired of reading by now....
I agree that we need universal health care. Parts of the bill I like, but others I don't. I'm glad that pre-existing conditions won't keep people from getting health care.
What about tort reform??? Some of the reason medical care is so expensive is that doctors practice defensive medicine. What about fixing medicare and medicaid abuse (and I see it every day). My current situation in the ER will be worse. The "it's free for me" attitude of medicaid patients who take an ambulance for a toothache will get worse. I will get paid less per patient, but will get paid for every patient (now I don't get paid for 30% of the work I do, which I'm ok with), so ER docs should come out ok. Other specialties are worried about decreased reimbursement (yet still having very expensive malpractice) and many will leave the medical field.
I can see where you are coming from here, but this would be a logistical nightmare.
How many test markets would they have to have to get an accurate reading on the whole country? I'm not sure a test market approach is rational or even feasible.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but having more expensive health care costs like I do right now makes me think twice about going to see a doctor. Preventative care is a different story for me personally, but spending $25 on a co-pay to go get a Rx (say, $10) for a minor illness is very different than walking out with a $175 bill and a $30 medication like I did when I had no choice but to go in August. With a rise in self-insured and the issues that it raises, change has got to start somewhere.
At the same time, though....to me, $800 a month seems like a bargain when the insurance company is/was/hopefully-never-again paying 3-4 times that much in medical expenses. I mean, unfortunately life isn't always "fair."
I know the frustration that you all experience from those from differing viewpoints on this opinion. I hear it too and I roll my eyes the same way. Those who just spout out whatever the pundits tell us--almost word for word, right?? It happens on both sides of the coin.
The main reason why I am against is is purely Constitutional, though. Where in the Constitution is Health Care designated as a job of Congress? To me, it's just another power grab for the Democrats to throw out the essence of the Constitution. In fact, it just seems like the Congress has forgotten all about States Rights ie "those powers not given the Congress here are designated to the states." What the link Charch posted didn't bring up was the fact that Massachusetts health plan has also brought to light the actual immense expense of the plan. This is only one state--and the reviews on the plan have actually been tremendously mixed. Why not encourage other states to try and take on this immense burden first, see how it goes and THEN see if we need the Feds to do anything? As Speed mentioned, it's not like the programs they are currently overseeing are stellar by any means....
And what saddens me is that peoples first reaction is "what is the government going to do about this?" Well, why does the government have to take care of everything? Or why does it always have to be the Federal government? We have local(city) government, we have state representatives. Why aren't those of you who want some sort of government program asking your local guys that theoretically lives in your area for the help you need? Do you not trust them or believe they can help? Why would the Federal government be any better then??
healthcare reform tool
an interesting tool.
A lot of what you said here is exactly why I'm mostly happy about the bill. I've said I don't think it's perfect, but it's a start.
A year ago insurance wasn't much of an issue for me. I didn't give a lot of consideration to my future health. I was healthy and I always had been. I don't even remember the last time I had the flu.
Then my car crash happened and I'm always going to have those injuries looming over my head. And if health care stays the way it is I'll be refused treatment for possible future complications caused by something completely out of my control.
I realize they have to take that into consideration when we start to negotiate a settlement, but I'm not so naive as to think that whatever I do get out of it is going to be able to cover my care for the rest of my life.
Knowing I can't be refused coverage for a pre-existing condition is a big weight off my shoulders.
Huh, funny, that's the same kind of response I received from Senator Kay Hagan! I wrote to her regarding farming techniques (asking her to support small farmers and to oppose genetically modified crops) and somehow got a response about her Health Care Reform stance. Actually, somehow I'm on her email list now.
So, you can see that I really do try to get my information from all sides.
Let's say said person got laid off. They're single. COBRA expires. They still can't find a job.
The max UI benefit is $494 at the moment. Said person isn't working at all, they don't have a PT job.
We'll round numbers to make things easy.
4 weeks of UI=$2000
Said person attempting to be financially responsible and is having taxes taken out, totaling 10%=$200
We're down to $1800, $800 of which is eaten up by health insurance premiums, not including any sort of co-pays for medications.
They live in an apartment, which costs $500.
We're down to $500 for food, gas, utilities, phone, car insurance, the list goes on.
And then we wonder why that person can't get ahead. While some people fall into financial difficulty through poor decisions, others fall into it by no fault of their own. Life isn't fair, we all know that, but to me this goes beyond that. Gov't assistance has such a negative stigma in this country, but if they're going to help subsidize some of the premiums, is that really such a bad thing? Either it's the overall absorption of cost by country or it's the ripple effect that this person has on a local, state and federal level. Neither is desirable, but I'll take the overall absorption of cost.
I think this, like so many other political issues, is an us v/s them thing. Dem vs Rep and Insured vs Un/under insured. This is where I get all kumbaya on you, but I think it would be resolved more quickly if there could be some agreement that "I" is going to have to take a hit in order for "we" to benefit.
Shoe and Charch...I totally see your points. And yes, they are good, valid ones. Those are all reasons why I'm not flaming mad, I'm not whining, I just inherently disagree with the direction our government is going. I'll support candidates opposed to these ideas, I'll write my letter and make my voice (hopefully) be heard in opposition, but at the end of the day, I'll thank the lucky stars that I do have the good fortune to pay my taxes and pay my dues to society.
I basically agree with what Terp said here.
I really don't get this argument. I have family in Canada and I don't hear them complaining about their healthcare system. Is it a perfect system? No. Is ours a perfect system? No. If Canada's system is so awful then why do Americans go to Canada to buy prescription drugs? Or go to down to South America to get cheaper surgeries. Our system is broken and we need to fix it. Our healthcare system actually ranks much lower than other less developed countries. I can't remember the link (it was on the P&CE board a little while ago), but the World Health Organization published a list of countries with the best health care systems and were were not at the top.
As for big government getting involved in our healthcare system, why shouldn't they? We've let big business run healthcare for a long time now and looks where it's gotten us. Those with pre-existing conditions are denied coverage, people who can't afford decent healthcare can't get the best treatments available, and about half of all bankruptcies in the US are the result of medical debt. If we can make healthcare more affordable and accessible for all Americans we'll have a much healthier and productive country.