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accidental circumcision
I got into this debate on PC&E the other day.
A kid was mistakenly circumcised after his mother checked No on the "do you want your kid's weiner snipped?" form the hospital gives you. Now the family is suing for malpractice and medical battery since it was a surgery without consent.
I think this is unreasonable. I get being mad, but I don't get why you have to sue. Enter Nesties posting about male genital mutilation, the long term effects, etc. Which, OK if that's what you believe, I understand. But a great many men live perfectly normal lives with circumcised penises. WTF are you suing for? File a complaint, talk to the local newspaper, whatever...but going to court? What damages are you suing for?
Someone even said it was worse than cutting off the wrong leg in an amputation because at least in that case, there's consent to operate. OK, yeah, taking off a quarter inch of skin is worse than getting two legs cut off instead of one.
AM I'M TRIPPING?
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
Re: accidental circumcision
I could see being very angry about it, even to the point of suing. Not for a lot of monies, because really, how much damage does it do? Not a lot to the kid, probably a lot more to the parents. I wouldn't sue, or go to the news, but I would be really mad.
This:
Someone even said it was worse than cutting off the wrong leg in an amputation because at least in that case, there's consent to operate.
is effing crazycakes.
The nerve!
House | Blog
I agree with SB here. Sure, I would get over it, but it would be pretty traumatic, especially if there's some sort of religious reason or deeper meaning than just "I specifically asked for the mock turtleneck and you gave me the crewneck!!"
Yeah, I don't think that I would actually want any money from them because what's done is done, but I would make a very big deal out of it to prevent it happening again.
I distinctly remember them coming to get Ethan for his and saying, "Okay, we're taking him to get circumcised now", so either they took the baby without telling the parents why or he got mixed up with another baby somehow. Either one is not okay.
I would sue, for sure.
This is a BFD, but amputating the wrong limb is an even bigger BFD.
Mucho likes purple nails and purple cupcakes
This. If you let it slide it is more likely to happen again. The hospital would pay more attention to legal action than just some parents ranting and raving. And really, they changed your kid forever. No going back from that one.
So it wouldn't matter if it was just because one nurse read a form wrong? I don't know what happened, but I'm operating under the assumption that the mistake was that simple.
I hear people claim that society is too litigious, but when it comes to individual cases, there's often overwhelming support for the plaintiff. I feel like I'm the opposite, in general I think most lawsuits are probably justified, but then I hear individual cases and I think, "oh get over it."
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
If someone reads a form wrong and my car gets painted the wrong color, or my dog gets a haircut I didn't want from the groomer or a dry cleaner ruins my favorite pants, I'm going to be mad, rant a bit, but not really take any action over.
An unapproved medical procedure on my child is just a totally different ballgame to me and something that deserves action.
I'm totally in Fallin's jury box on this one. I'd sue and it IS a BFD. Not as big as cutting off a wrong limb, that's crazycakes. Maybe it would cause the hospital to put a procedure in place where more than 1 person checks the paperwork or paperwork accompanies every baby, or something.
and the difference in Buddha's examples is the first paragraph of examples can all be fixed: a car repainted at no cost, a dog's hair will grow, and pants can be purchased. But you just can't regrow a foreskin.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
One of the ways we make sure hospitals and medical professionals are careful is suing them when they fail to be.
For less then ten cents a day, you can feed a hungry child.
I realize that, but I don't agree that it's the only way to do things. Yeah, if someone's going to be a douche about it, punish them. But I hate how whenever somebody complains, a company has to fall all over themselves and offer them free shiit, even if it's the person just being a douchebag. And the people who usually get the brunt of it are the lowest on the totem pole and completely undeserving (not always the case, but it happens). It's why I hate to complain.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
This is true. I didn't think about that angle when I said I wouldn't sue. It's just hard to put an amount of money on this because the idea of performing a surgery without consent is so much bigger than the actual consequence to me.
The nerve!
House | Blog
I like money, too, but isn't the motivation to get money the reason why people sue so often nowadays? Do you think people should sue every time they have legal grounds to do so? Should people sue in every instance a doctor makes a mistake? I say no.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
Should I sue when a doctor thinks a rash is eczema, only to find out it's a severe allergic reaction when I have to go to the ER later? No.
Should I sue when a doctor performs surgery without permission? Yes.
The nerve!
House | Blog
Money is absolutely the motivation to sue. But I don't think that people should sue every time they have the chance. We had an opportunity to sue the *** out of the gas company after they caused 2 gas leaks (one where it was bubbling up in front of our house), tore up our driveway and lawn and left us overnight with no heat or hot water (in the winter while I was pregnant). We also have free legal at our disposal. But we chose not too, we just wanted them to fix our driveway.
But in the case of an accidental circumcision, I would sue for principal, not money. Filling out a medical form with your wishes is supposed to be upheld, and if these kind of mistakes are overlooked and go unpunished it blurs a line which allows medical professionals to make non-life threatening decisions on our behalf.
For less then ten cents a day, you can feed a hungry child.
This.
As for whether or not every mistake is grounds for a lawsuit, it depends on the egregiousness of the mistake, IMO. This is pretty careless and there is certainly some negligence here.
Where I think litigiousness is over the top is when people sue doctors for things they couldn't necessarily predict. I don't think suing for actual negligence is the real cause of skyrocketing malpractice ins rates.
I'm surprised at your position, Fent. You don't think autonomy over our bodies (and our childrens' bodies) deserves legal protection?
The hair grows in thick where the horn used to be.
I think this is a really good distinction. I don't want my doctor afraid to diagnose me because people sue over wrong diagnoses, but I do want my doctor to double and triple check forms before performing surgery.
This, exactly. It's not as though the doctor gave his best medical advice that turned out to be wrong. It's not that kind of mistake. It's a "mistake" in that someone (probably more than one someone) failed to do their job and accurately check the consent form. The result was a permanent change to a person's body. That's lawsuit worthy.
I don't think doctors should be able to do whatever they want, no. But if an honest mistake is made and there are no major long term ramifications, I wouldn't. It's a common simple procedure, not like the doctor did some exploratory surgery on his abdomen.
If the doctor made the choice because he thought only crunchy granola morons left their kids uncut, I could see suing. And I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to or that I don't see the legal grounds, I just think I'd go home and take care of my baby and forget about it.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I'd sue. Hospitals might want to change, might intend on changing when something like this happens but the financial pressure to get away with as few nurses as possible needs to be balanced out by the financial pressure of possible lawsuits.
I don't know much about malpractice, but my understanding is that we're a much less litigious society than we were a hundred years ago, if we're talking about individuals. Corporations sue each other far more than individuals sue them. I'm guessing this is different in malpractice, but it's also one of the few ways an individual can influence the system. (Wasn't there a scandal not too long ago where hospitals were shuffling around terrible doctors rather than disciplining them so that their ratings wouldn't go down? IIRC something like 15% of docs were responsible for over half the malpractice cases.) Obviously not the case here, but it's also the way individuals can access money for continuing care after a screw-up. Wrong diagnosis can leave you crippled and dependent.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Do you plan to circumcise? I don't. Maybe that's why I see permanently removing a part of the body against the parents' decision a pretty major long term ramification.