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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: accidental circumcision
So how do you know this wasn't the cause? Or perhaps it was a mistake that was otherwise the result of an individuals incompetence or irresponsibility? Too lazy to double check, a hungover nurse or doctor? Where do you draw the line between 'innocent mistake' and negligence/malice? It's not like a doctor is going to tell the parents that he overrode their decision because he didn't agree with it, but it could happen.
I personally would not sue over this, but I do think it is something that is sue-worthy. I would probably make a big, loud issue over it. Too many mistakes are made in hospitals and there needs to be a constant reminder that they are under a very serious obligation to check and re-check their work.
A cut is a cut, and it should never be done without consent. However, out of all of the mistakes that could be made, this one wouldn't be that awful to me...but I also checked "yes" on that form. My OB/GYN was the one to perform the procedure, and my husband observed and "assisted" her. I find it really odd that this would have happened in the first place.
In terms of our litigious society, yes, it bugs the ever lovingshit out of me. Something (not necessarily speaking about this case) bad happens, and people think they hit the lottery. Money isn't going to make up for that. Yes, I believe there are valid lawsuits, but I also think that people react to an emotional issue, thinking that a lawsuit will make them whole when they just end up prolonging their pain.
I don't know if I will or not. I compared this to piercing a baby's ears. Let's just say this was offered at the hospital, for comparison's sake. I find ear piercing way more questionable and unnecessary than circumcision, but I wouldn't sue even if my kid's ears got pierced. Even if a nurse or doctor did it (in theory!). I think it would take a lot to get me to file a lawsuit.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I don't get this comparison at all. Earrings can be taken out and easily healed. A circ is pretty irreversible. It's not going to grow back.
Fenton, you really don't see the difference between earrings you can take out and a missing foreskin?
Vinny, do you personally know anyone who has done that? I know my parents considered a malpractice suit after my dad had back surgery. He wound up in more pain than before and when he saw a new doctor 2 months later because the old one decided to leave his practice, new doc said "Oh, you don't really see these surgeries anymore because it re-damages the tissue. That's about half your pain, the other half is because the stabilizing compound spilled into the wrong place." They didn't think they hit the lottery, they were concerned about unknown medical bills in the future and if the pain didn't get better, permanent disability. (It didn't get perfect, but it got a lot better.) I'm not an expert, but my impression is a good chunk of malpractice is fear of how to pay the bills if it doesn't get better or gets worse and another good chunk is being pissed off at mistreatment.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
I think there are certainly very valid reasons to sue and situations where awards from a lawsuit will go toward paying crazy huge medical bills.
However, working in a law firm, I have seen some pretty stupid, useless cases come through. I have also seen some situations where people had previous injuries, got into an accident that, from all investigation, had nothing to do with aggravating or re-injuring the person. Yet they sue because they want their medical expenses paid. It sucks that they are hurt, but it had nothing to do with the subject accident.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I had my son cut, but if I hadn't intended to, the objection would not have been pain. It would have been a completely avoidable unauthorized surgery on my child.
Book Review Blog
If I were a man (or fitty) I'd totally call my penis THE WIZARD - HappyTummy
As a non-circ'er it wasn't just about avoiding unnecessary pain, it was also wanting him to have his foreskin. http://www.livescience.com/health/070615_penis_sensitivity.html
ETA: there's some dispute about how big the difference is, but taking the potential away permanently seems questionable.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
Ok to turn the tables:
If your dr didn't do something that you specifically requested BE done and you got home and realized that he didn't do it, would you sue? I guess this can be applied to circumcision. If you had checked yes and got home (say the nurses did all the diaper changes) and then realized that the surgery wasn't done what would you do? Of course it's not exactly the same thing as no surgery was done without your consent but your expressed wishes were not followed at the time of the hospitalization.
Would this be lawsuit worthy or would you just go in and have it done?
Not lawsuit worthy, because the situation is reversible for the most part. I'd also assume you aren't going to be charged for a surgery you didn't have and I'd bet money the parents described in the OP were charged for the surgery that they didn't authorize (which by the way, was considered elective by my insurance company and therefore not covered).
Just go in and have it done. How is that even equivalent? People go in for surgery just to be sent home all the time. You grouse to friends and fam about understaffing or overbooking and then get over it.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
No, I would just go in and have it done.
it's not the equivalent in anything except the the fact that you had expressed your wishes and they were ignored/overlooked/the crunchy dr doesnt' believe in circing/whatever. I agree that I would gripe and then go have it done. However more than likely you'd have to deal with other issues of rescheduling something that should have been done/seperate dr bills ect.
Just interested to see what people would say. I agree that society is very eager to sue over the littlest things. To sue over this IMO would be silly but I am on the fence about accidental circing.
Yeah, my issue isn't pain. I'd be unhappy about that but I've get over it. My issue is that it is a permanent, irreversible modification made to a person's body without consent. That's a big deal.
I have to think about my husband and if this would have happened when he was an infant. If someone did this procedure and not checked his chart (he is a hemophiliac) they would have been unprepared and it could have resulted in death.
Sara 7/7/11
Proof that pull and pray does not work if you are an Atheist.~Bethie
It would have been OK Molly. We've learned that all he needs to do is CHOOSE LIFE
Book Review Blog
If I were a man (or fitty) I'd totally call my penis THE WIZARD - HappyTummy
I need to make him a sign that says TEAM RUMPLE FORESKIN!
Sara 7/7/11
Proof that pull and pray does not work if you are an Atheist.~Bethie
He likes to have sex with dead people?
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
No he is part vampire. What he lacks he just takes from random people dead or alive.
Sara 7/7/11
Proof that pull and pray does not work if you are an Atheist.~Bethie
Fozzy no one is suing or has ever sued over a doctor forgetting to do a surgery. The times people have sued over refused surgery are like the trans man who was denied surgery by six different doctors for his ovarian cancer. I believe he died.
What you're saying is like taking the gross distortion of the McDonald's coffee case and saying what if the tables were turned and your coffee was cold, would you sue then? Because cold coffee and keeping coffee so hot you need a skin graft on your chach just so McDonald's doesn't have to change the pot as often even though people have gotten severely burned before is exactly the same.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
I thought it meant you liked having sex with vampires. Do you wear a lot of eyeliner and glitter to keep him happy in bed?
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
For it to be true vampire style, he would be wearing the glitter and eyeliner.
Sara 7/7/11
Proof that pull and pray does not work if you are an Atheist.~Bethie
I feel sorry for your sheets.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
s/o of main topic, but I am surprised Fallin is not breastfeeding, but she's not circumcising either. She's a mystery wrapped in an enigma, this one!
I know the logic isn't quite the same but I associate BFers (not buttfukkers) with anti-circ.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
this! the best comparison I can think of, because really the ones brought so far have been seriously lacking, is if the dr. decided to "trim" your daughter's labia w.o consent. Is it the same as chopping out her clit? no. but it is a irreversable modification done to her body.
and Wendy, I called our ins. company to see if circ would be covered since I know many have been denying it due to that reason and she acted like I had two heads. OF COURSE it's covered. WHY WOULDN"T it be. Um, because it's completely elective and purely cosmetic at this age (unless for religious reasons)?
I wouldn't say PURELY cosmetic, but I really don't care enough to have that debate.
So take circumcision out of it. If the dr was doing a surgery and didn't do something he said he would (while doing other medical proceedures) which lead to the patient being hurt in someway shape or form it would be considered lawsuit worthy. I'm not saying that not doing the circ and accidental circ are the same in anyway except that the patients wishes were disregarded/not followed. If you take the physical change out of it and go only on the fact that the patients wishes on a hospital form were not followed there are multiple ways (not talking about circ here) that this could become lawsuit worthy. Although I would be pissed if my kid got accidental surgery, as long as he was ok I would be able to move on. A trust is broken with a dr and a hospital any time that a patients wishes are not followed and I would find a new dr.