accidental circumcision

Novemberrocks · September 2010

Miles is circumcized. I would have been upset if the hospital did it against our wishes, but that is really for religious reasons. We wanted a bris, and to give him my dad's Hebrew name. Oh, and the bagels and smoked fish platters were pretty nice.

modb1rd · September 2010

Novemberrocks:

Miles is circumcized. I would have been upset if the hospital did it against our wishes, but that is really for religious reasons. We wanted a bris, and to give him my dad's Hebrew name. Oh, and the bagels and smoked fish platters were pretty nice.

ok November, you may not be an edgy laugh a minute, but this was funny and I like dissecting your occasional expensive shoe purchases. Stick around.

tastyburger · September 2010

Fozzy0802909:
pdxmouse:

Fozzy no one is suing or has ever sued over a doctor forgetting to do a surgery. The times people have sued over refused surgery are like the trans man who was denied surgery by six different doctors for his ovarian cancer. I believe he died.

What you're saying is like taking the gross distortion of the McDonald's coffee case and saying what if the tables were turned and your coffee was cold, would you sue then? Because cold coffee and keeping coffee so hot you need a skin graft on your chach just so McDonald's doesn't have to change the pot as often even though people have gotten severely burned before is exactly the same.

So take circumcision out of it. If the dr was doing a surgery and didn't do something he said he would (while doing other medical proceedures) which lead to the patient being hurt in someway shape or form it would be considered lawsuit worthy. I'm not saying that not doing the circ and accidental circ are the same in anyway except that the patients wishes were disregarded/not followed. If you take the physical change out of it and go only on the fact that the patients wishes on a hospital form were not followed there are multiple ways (not talking about circ here) that this could become lawsuit worthy. Although I would be pissed if my kid got accidental surgery, as long as he was ok I would be able to move on. A trust is broken with a dr and a hospital any time that a patients wishes are not followed and I would find a new dr.

no no no. I'm sorry, but it's just NOT the same thing. you can't "take circ out of it" because that is the main issue that people have with that particular surgery--that it's elective and mostly dependant on a person's culture and/or beliefs. I could have wishes that I am served a meal during labor, but hospital policy is that I can't eat once admitted in active labor. I'm not going to sue because I'm hungry.

tastyburger · September 2010

wendyld:

tastyburger:

and Wendy, I called our ins. company to see if circ would be covered since I know many have been denying it due to that reason and she acted like I had two heads. OF COURSE it's covered. WHY WOULDN"T it be. Um, because it's completely elective and purely cosmetic at this age (unless for religious reasons)?

I wouldn't say PURELY cosmetic, but I really don't care enough to have that debate.

okay, w.o having a "debate," I'll say that I've seen research that it may be for reasons that are not cosmetic. But I did put a qualifier of "at this age (newborn)" because I know that most later circs are done for a very NON cosmetic reasons.

wendyld · September 2010

tastyburger:
wendyld:

tastyburger:

and Wendy, I called our ins. company to see if circ would be covered since I know many have been denying it due to that reason and she acted like I had two heads. OF COURSE it's covered. WHY WOULDN"T it be. Um, because it's completely elective and purely cosmetic at this age (unless for religious reasons)?
I wouldn't say PURELY cosmetic, but I really don't care enough to have that debate.
okay, w.o having a "debate," I'll say that I've seen research that it may be for reasons that are not cosmetic. But I did put a qualifier of "at this age (newborn)" because I know that most later circs are done for a very NON cosmetic reasons.

Right, so even as an infant it can be done as a preventative/hygienic reasons.

RFKD82909 · September 2010

tastyburger:
Fozzy0802909:
pdxmouse:

Fozzy no one is suing or has ever sued over a doctor forgetting to do a surgery. The times people have sued over refused surgery are like the trans man who was denied surgery by six different doctors for his ovarian cancer. I believe he died.

What you're saying is like taking the gross distortion of the McDonald's coffee case and saying what if the tables were turned and your coffee was cold, would you sue then? Because cold coffee and keeping coffee so hot you need a skin graft on your chach just so McDonald's doesn't have to change the pot as often even though people have gotten severely burned before is exactly the same.

So take circumcision out of it. If the dr was doing a surgery and didn't do something he said he would (while doing other medical proceedures) which lead to the patient being hurt in someway shape or form it would be considered lawsuit worthy. I'm not saying that not doing the circ and accidental circ are the same in anyway except that the patients wishes were disregarded/not followed. If you take the physical change out of it and go only on the fact that the patients wishes on a hospital form were not followed there are multiple ways (not talking about circ here) that this could become lawsuit worthy. Although I would be pissed if my kid got accidental surgery, as long as he was ok I would be able to move on. A trust is broken with a dr and a hospital any time that a patients wishes are not followed and I would find a new dr.

no no no. I'm sorry, but it's just NOT the same thing. you can't "take circ out of it" because that is the main issue that people have with that particular surgery--that it's elective and mostly dependant on a person's culture and/or beliefs. I could have wishes that I am served a meal during labor, but hospital policy is that I can't eat once admitted in active labor. I'm not going to sue because I'm hungry.

The first part was my question. Would you sue it the tables were flipped and your answer is no. That's cool and an opinion that I was asking for. my only point being that some people are crazy enough to sue over anything no matter how stupid it is. The second is a little off base because I was referring to signed documents involved in a surgery/proceedure declaring the consent/wishes of a patient. If a DNR was not followed due to nurse/dr overlooking and the patient was recessitated this could be a lawsuit.

I'm not arguing either way. I was just looking for opinions. How are you feeling btw? Getting excited?

Novemberrocks · September 2010

modb1rd:
Novemberrocks:

Miles is circumcized. I would have been upset if the hospital did it against our wishes, but that is really for religious reasons. We wanted a bris, and to give him my dad's Hebrew name. Oh, and the bagels and smoked fish platters were pretty nice.

ok November, you may not be an edgy laugh a minute, but this was funny and I like dissecting your occasional expensive shoe purchases. Stick around.

This is good, because I'm seriously thisclose to buying a pair of Louboutin's. You may judge away now.

FallinAgain · September 2010

Fozzy0802909:

If you take the physical change out of it and go only on the fact that the patients wishes on a hospital form were not followed there are multiple ways (not talking about circ here) that this could become lawsuit worthy. Although I would be pissed if my kid got accidental surgery, as long as he was ok I would be able to move on. A trust is broken with a dr and a hospital any time that a patients wishes are not followed and I would find a new dr.

What is or is not lawsuit worthy depends on the specifics of those "multiple ways" the wishes weren't followed. The ability to consent to surgery that irreversibly makes your body different is pretty primary. And for a lot of people, a permanent body modification is not the kid being ok.

RFKD82909 · September 2010

FallinAgain:

Fozzy0802909:

If you take the physical change out of it and go only on the fact that the patients wishes on a hospital form were not followed there are multiple ways (not talking about circ here) that this could become lawsuit worthy. Although I would be pissed if my kid got accidental surgery, as long as he was ok I would be able to move on. A trust is broken with a dr and a hospital any time that a patients wishes are not followed and I would find a new dr.

What is or is not lawsuit worthy depends on the specifics of those "multiple ways" the wishes weren't followed. The ability to consent to surgery that irreversibly makes your body different is pretty primary. And for a lot of people, a permanent body modification is not the kid being ok.

No doubt that the child would be physically changed forever and that this would be upsetting for the parents who made the decision. However, if the parents were not circing for any reason other that religious/cutural reasons (ex: my bff is a crunchy hippie type and just didn't want her son done as she feels it's not necessary) would you say that the child is damanged to the point that he's not going to be ok? In 20 years would the child, now a man, be still 'not ok' from this mistake made?

FallinAgain · September 2010

Fozzy0802909:
FallinAgain:

Fozzy0802909:

If you take the physical change out of it and go only on the fact that the patients wishes on a hospital form were not followed there are multiple ways (not talking about circ here) that this could become lawsuit worthy. Although I would be pissed if my kid got accidental surgery, as long as he was ok I would be able to move on. A trust is broken with a dr and a hospital any time that a patients wishes are not followed and I would find a new dr.

What is or is not lawsuit worthy depends on the specifics of those "multiple ways" the wishes weren't followed. The ability to consent to surgery that irreversibly makes your body different is pretty primary. And for a lot of people, a permanent body modification is not the kid being ok.

No doubt that the child would be physically changed forever and that this would be upsetting for the parents who made the decision. However, if the parents were not circing for any reason other that religious/cutural reasons (ex: my bff is a crunchy hippie type and just didn't want her son done as she feels it's not necessary) would you say that the child is damanged to the point that he's not going to be ok? In 20 years would the child, now a man, be still 'not ok' from this mistake made?

I don't think he would still be "damaged" or not ok. But you say that you would look at a nonconsensual circ as "my kid is ok so I'll just go on home." For me, that's too nonchalant about it.

tastyburger · September 2010

we are just debating, Fozzy, I don't think you're arguing. I even like a bit of devil's advocate. and I guess you're right about the signed form thing.

I am feeling good . . . as a almost-birthing pregnant lady can be. I have been getting contractions all day (starting in the wee hours of this morning) but nothing timable. When I walk it feels like I have a head falling deeper into my vagina, which is weird. I'm really trying to wait it out until Oct though, lol. I really can't complain at all, though. I'm still loving every minute of it (sorry MissMolly).

MISSMOLLY1214 · September 2010

tastyburger:

we are just debating, Fozzy, I don't think you're arguing. I even like a bit of devil's advocate. and I guess you're right about the signed form thing.

I am feeling good . . . as a almost-birthing pregnant lady can be. I have been getting contractions all day (starting in the wee hours of this morning) but nothing timable. When I walk it feels like I have a head falling deeper into my vagina, which is weird. I'm really trying to wait it out until Oct though, lol. I really can't complain at all, though. I'm still loving every minute of it (sorry MissMolly).

Gah Tasty, give me some warning so I can grab my cheetos. If I am going to get stoned off of positivity, I want to be prepared. Wink

pdxmouse · September 2010

Fozzy0802909:
The first part was my question. Would you sue it the tables were flipped and your answer is no. That's cool and an opinion that I was asking for. my only point being that some people are crazy enough to sue over anything no matter how stupid it is. The second is a little off base because I was referring to signed documents involved in a surgery/proceedure declaring the consent/wishes of a patient. If a DNR was not followed due to nurse/dr overlooking and the patient was recessitated this could be a lawsuit.

Everyone just knows this happens. Do you really think they get to court very often, much less win? Go on, cite the McDonald's coffee case.

If we want to take circ out of it:

Let's say you need a mastectomy on your right breast. Dr offers to take the left one too, for cosmetic reasons. You just want to focus on recovery, plan on having an implant to match, don't want to affect your golf swing, whatever; you say no. His assistant accidentally transcribes it as a yes. You wake up from surgery to find both breasts gone. You're in more pain, longer recovery, and dammit your good breast is gone with the medical waste. Would you feel justified suing?

Turn it around, the doctor offers to take your other boob for cosmetic reasons, you're sick of wearing a bra, want to improve at archery, whatever and say yes. Transcriptionist goofs. You wake up to find lefty is still there and you'll need to schedule another appointment. You might be upset but is it going to be worth a lawsuit, if even got that far?

RFKD82909 · September 2010

pdxmouse:
Fozzy0802909:

The first part was my question. Would you sue it the tables were flipped and your answer is no. That's cool and an opinion that I was asking for. my only point being that some people are crazy enough to sue over anything no matter how stupid it is. The second is a little off base because I was referring to signed documents involved in a surgery/proceedure declaring the consent/wishes of a patient. If a DNR was not followed due to nurse/dr overlooking and the patient was recessitated this could be a lawsuit.

Everyone just knows this happens. Do you really think they get to court very often, much less win? Go on, cite the McDonald's coffee case.

If we want to take circ out of it:

Let's say you need a mastectomy on your right breast. Dr offers to take the left one too, for cosmetic reasons. You just want to focus on recovery, plan on having an implant to match, don't want to affect your golf swing, whatever; you say no. His assistant accidentally transcribes it as a yes. You wake up from surgery to find both breasts gone. You're in more pain, longer recovery, and dammit your good breast is gone with the medical waste. Would you feel justified suing?

Turn it around, the doctor offers to take your other boob for cosmetic reasons, you're sick of wearing a bra, want to improve at archery, whatever and say yes. Transcriptionist goofs. You wake up to find lefty is still there and you'll need to schedule another appointment. You might be upset but is it going to be worth a lawsuit, if even got that far?

Personally I would be livid if they took my breast without my consent and would also be livid if they circed my son without my consent. That being said, I probably wouldn't sue personally. Given that I have never been through that I can't say 100% and find anyone who choses to sue completely justified but for me, I probably wouldnt.

tastyburger · September 2010

then how would you get your revenge/closure/whatever about it? If I'm livid about something, I wanna make someone pay (either monitarily or otherwise).

pdxmouse · September 2010

tastyburger:
then how would you get your revenge/closure/whatever about it? If I'm livid about something, I wanna make someone pay (either monitarily or otherwise).

Right now would that be a jar of rainbow kitten farts?

wingedbride · September 2010

i would sue, for exactly every reason fallin said. and filed a complaint on everyone involved to licensing agencies, etc. we chose to not circ. i would have been beyond livid.

wendyld · September 2010

wingedbride:
i would sue, for exactly every reason fallin said. and filed a complaint on everyone involved to licensing agencies, etc. we chose to not circ. i would have been beyond livid.

Dit-to.

I would also sue in probably both of the mastectomy situations Mouse described. One is beyond emotionally traumatic for a woman to lose both breasts unnecessarily and unprepared. The other still requires a second surgery, which involves lots of costs and of course there is additional risk every time you go under.

accidental circumcision

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