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First home-buying question
When you bought your first house, did you buy it with the intention of living there a few years and then buying something bigger when you outgrew it/ had kids taking up a lot of space? Or did you buy a house with a lot of room to grow? DH and I are are saving for a house but we've been driving around the area a lot just trying to get an idea of how much things cost here. He really wants to buy a house that we would be able to live in forever but I don't think that's really feasible- we're planning to have 3-4 kids so buying a house within the next couple years when it's just us and possibly a baby would not only be way too big, we would never be able to afford a down payment. I would love to get a smaller house with a little extra land so we could just add an addition to the house, but that's pretty difficult to find in this area. I also don't want to buy a smaller house that we would have to move out of in 5 years or so because with the cost of moving, closing costs, etc. I feel like we would just be wasting money. I know this is probably different for everyone, I guess I'm just curious to see how most people think about house-buying.
P.S. I don't have to be at the hospital until 11 today so that's the only reason I have time to post! haha I miss this board! This internship is really interfering with my nesting time 
Re: First home-buying question
We have never planned on our house being a forever-house, but we got it for a crazy good price, and we have an great lot. Also, we bought just over 2 years ago when the market first took a nose-dive, so we were both comfortable taking the risk that in 5 years or so, we'll make money on the house.
Plus, we really wanted to live in the town we live in. Our house, at $330k, is at the very low end of the housing prices for our area. So we figured at the very least, we were getting ourselves into the area we wanted to be in.
Well, you know we have a 1 BR condo. We bought it with the intention of it becoming rental property. We knew we could have a baby in there and get away with it until s/he started walking, but not after that (it is 648 sq. feet total, with 90 sq. feet of storage in the basement).
I don't think I'd buy a "forever house" at this point in my life. My tastes are changing constantly. Plus, I like the freedom to pick up and go!
My sister and her BF just bought a house with the intention of having it for 5 years, then moving somewhere else.
I call our home our long-term starter house - we don't intend to be here forever. When we were looking, our goal was to find something we could live in for upwards of 10 years and we definitely found that. We've been here about 2.5 years now and we've done a lot of work (and still have some projects to do over the next year or so) and when we're done, I think our plan is to just watch the market. If things turn up and we think we could make a nice profit, we'd probably try to sell, even if it hasn't been 10 years. On the flipside, we were fortunate enough to get a house that we don't HAVE to move out of, ever, if for whatever reason we don't get the chance.
We have no kids yet so our house is definitely big for it just being 2 of us (it's about 2000 sq ft, 3-4 bedrooms, 2 baths) but since we plan on being here for a while, we knew we needed to be able to grow into the house.
I think we did something similar to MrsT. Our house could be a forever house, but we didn't buy it with that intention. We wanted to make sure we had something big enough to grow into. We had a really hard time buying our first house and were not excited about the idea of having to do this again in 5 years. Our house needs some work, so we were able to get a lot of the space and the location that we wanted for a price that is at the top of our budget, but still within our budget. We plan to work on it over the next few years, enjoy it for some time, then see where we are in life and if we would be happier elsewhere.
However, we only plan to have 2 kids max. If you are looking at up to 4, you are probably going to want a larger house.
Do you know which area you want to live in forever? That plays in to it too. I think it's smart that you are driving around now and checking things out. Don't be afraid to go to open houses, either! We were so nervous before going to our first one and would just do drive-bys on houses for months. After we finally took the plunge, we both wondered what we had been waiting for.
Hey Jackie! I hope the internship is going well. How do you like it?
Living in a HCOL area is difficult. It is hard to afford a place that would be your forever home, especially if you want a larger family. We knew we couldn't a afford a huge house, or anything like that. But we didn't need something huge. Ideally we were looking for a place that could be a forever/very long term house if we needed it to be, but still something on the smaller/medium scale.
We already knew that we want 1, maybe 2 children. So for us finding something with 2-3 bedrooms wasn't too hard to find within our price range. Of course we couldn't afford the super expensive towns (like Concord or Lexington for example). But we could still get into towns with really good school systems. So we just kept looking in the towns we liked and could afford until the right one popped up.
Our house is a Cape, 2 beds up and an additional room on the 1st floor which we use as an office. The upstairs bedrooms are big, so if we ended up deciding to have 2 children and they were the same gender we could put them in the room together. If not we had the office (which is still a good size 14x12) we could use as a bedroom or move.
DH's dream is to design/build us a house. We know this is something we never be financially able to do. Which is why we wanted to make sure we had room to grow so that if we had to stay in our current house we could.
All in all it depends on how soon you want to buy, how soon you want to start a family, and how close you want your children to be in age. If it will be a few years before you start a family, and a number of years between your children, you may be able to get a 3 bedroom house now. If you end up with 3 kids before you're able to move again it wouldn't be the end of the world for 2 kids to share a room until you are ready to move. I'm a planner so I understand wanting to make sure you make the right decision and that everything turns out the way you hope. But life is so unpredictable. If you feel financially stable and ready to buy and settle down in this area, go for it. If you are still up in the are on location or not satisfied with what you can get your money now, then wait.
I think it's a little unrealistic in this area to expect your first house to be your forever house, especially if you're buying young. I'm sure your DH will realize this as you guys start going to open houses and really looking.
We waited to buy until we were older and much more financially established, partly because we knew we weren't going to be staying in California where we were living at the time. So the house we got is nicer than we could have afforded otherwise, with room to expand into both the attic and basement. We liked the fact that this house could accommodate us forever if we need it to, but we'll likely move eventually so we can upgrade on the location. We've been here four years already as of two days ago.
And it's nice to see you around here, by the way!
I think house buying is a scam
My husband and I rent, and don't ever plan on buying a home unless we found some ridiculous deal or some incredible house that we just HAVE to live in for the rest of our lives. Depending on your incomes and where you want to live, you might be eligible for an "affordable" housing opportunity in Boston through the Boston Redevelopment Authority. These are deeply discounted homes for households that make less money (I think the cap for the program is a dual income household of ~$106k). But the program offers purchasing opportunities to buy a condo in Boston proper or surrounding neighborhoods for under $200k.
If you are living within your means, MOST people will come out ahead money-wise by setting a housing budget based on what they can afford (& what they would be willing/able to spend on a mortgage/home ownership costs), then RENTING below that amount & investing the money saved for retirement or that "dream" home they may one day find. The problem is that MOST people don't have the discipline to save that "extra" money for retirement--they spend it on cars, vacations, education, renting a bigger-than-necessary place, life, etc--and then they have no savings AND no equity. The idea then is that if they put that money into a mortgage, at least they have the equity to retire on (assuming they don't sell while they are upside down); which is why people are told it is better to buy a house rather than rent.
Your husband is right though. You shouldn't buy until/unless you can afford to buy a house you are able/willing to live in for the rest of your lives (i.e. only buy if it's your "absolutely-could-live-there-for-the-rest-of-our-lives-happily DREAM home"), or unless you aren't good with/disciplined enough to save money for retirement in the future. (and that means you not only have to be disciplined about saving, but disciplined about NOT tapping that money/reserve for other things: cars, vacations, kids' educations, etc)
Just my $0.02.
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
this is a very, um, interesting? point of view?
I thought so too.
I hated renting. Granted it can make things easier because you don't have to worry about the maitenance of the property. But I was so sick of having ajoined neighbor(s), of not being able to paint, worrying about putting holes in the wall, basically having no say over anything. Having a house is hard work but we're loving every second. And there is such a satisfaction knowing that this space is all ours and we have all the say about what we do with it.
I actually agree that home ownership is neither for everyone nor is a must-do. However, I think your arguments are a little flawed. Figuring out a housing budget and then staying within or under that is something you should do whether you buy or rent. DH and I bought a home that is under our means and have cash left to put towards investments. The only difference is that we pay a mortgage instead of rent. As owners, we do have maintenance costs that you wouldn't have as a renter, but then we're also building equity that you wouldn't get as a renter.
I don't think most people buy a house with the thought of using it as an auto-saving vehicle, and I certainly don't believe it's a popular story used to convince people to buy. I think most people buy because they like the idea of owning their home, being able to do what they want to their property, and potentially making some money if/when they sell. Is it the best or safest financial decision? No, not always. But there are benefits aside from the financial aspects that people value as well.
As for the savings vehicle argument--that would be an insane way to "save." 401k's, IRAs, and the like are good auto-save tools that are restricted to encourage keeping the $ in savings but are still far more liquid and flexible than a house.
Okay, so some of my points were completely missed, so I'll clarify a few things:
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
There is so much about this that makes no sense...why would you marry someone if you didn't think you were going to be together? This whole argument is one of the strangest I have seen.
I get it a little bit. I think saying "buying a house is a scam" is the flip side of saying "renting is throwing away your money every month". Neither one is correct.
I have friends who bought houses just because they wanted to be homeowners, and I thought it made no sense. One couple is living in a horrible neighborhood and bought knowing they would only live there for four years. They also bought a newly renovated home, which means that when they sell it is not going to have that newly renovated sparkle to it, making it less desirable. I think they are nuts and should have just rented a nice apartment and saved up for a good down payment on their next place. But, they wanted a house, so they bought a house.
On the other side, my FIL has rented for his whole life. He has lived in the same town, same apartment for 10+ years, and rents a storage unit to store all of his stuff. He would have been financially much better off buying a small house 25 years ago. But renting is what he was comfortable with so that's what he did.
No one can predict the future so you just have to do what feels right for you, after weighing all of the options.
I agree with you regarding the benefits of renting, I just think your tone is a little skewed towards "this is the absolute right way of doing things" and a lot of generalizations. Of course, tone doesn't always come across correctly in writing.
I also agree that people should research, research, research before buying and have preached that on several Nest boards.
But just as not every rental has tons of restrictions, not every rental has as much flexibility as you've enjoyed. There are no absolute answers and it seems that we've all found solutions to the housing question that work for us. I do appreciate you bringing a different point of view to the discussion.
"There is much about this that makes no sense" like what? I can clarify if you are unable to understand.
"why would you marry someone if you didn't think you were going to be together?" most people don't marry someone if they don't think they are going to stay together, but many people marry someone and 1-5 years later (before or after buying a home together) change their mind and get a divorce...also, if one of the people has a mental disorder (bi-polar, depression, anxiety, borderline) which may not have been diagnosed/recognised before the wedding, then he/she might not be stable enough to warrant making such a large purchase. I believe most people on this board are already married, but may/may not have already purchased. I'm just suggesting people pay attention to the red flags and not get caught up in their dreams of home ownership which may or may not be realistic.
"This whole argument is one of the strangest I have seen." It's not an argument, it's an opinion. And it's only "strange" because it involves not following the herd.
I think if more people were better educated about what they were getting into with making such a large purchase in the hopes that in 15 or 30 years they will "own" something, they might think twice. And if more people thought twice about it, our economy would be in better shape today. I'm not saying people can't buy, I'm saying before you buy honestly think about things and try to take as many factors into account before making your decision. And weigh them appropriately. Some things are more important than others, and maybe spending a bit more to feel "security" is worth it for you. Maybe you insist on living someplace where there are few rental options. Maybe you & your spouse are independently wealthy and don't have to worry about investments or finances at all.
Many people buy because "that's what you're supposed to do" after you get married or once you reach a certain age, not necessarily bc it's what's best for them. Only you & your spouse can determine what's best for your family/scenario.
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
OK, you lost me (in terms of supporting you) with the mental illness argument. That's such a random "what if" as far as this discussion goes.
Make a smart decision based on the info you have and reasonable assumptions, but don't live your life thinking over-weighting worst-case scenarios!
LOL....I know 3 people dealing with the mental-illness related thing, all have had to stop working which has put a strain on their SO being the sole-bread winner. And I'm not saying don't buy bc your significant MIGHT ONE DAY be diagnosed with something, I'm saying if he/she has already been diagnosed with something or you suspect he/she MIGHT have something (undiagnosed) bc you've seen some red flags (depression, not able to hold a job, etc), be cautious. Geez. LOL.
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
I think that goes without saying, and it just came out of left field. My (unsolicited) opinion/advice is just that your point of view would be considered more seriously if you didn't make seemingly random arguments.
I think the statement that home-ownership is a "scam" is inaccurate, and an umbrella statement like that starting out the point your trying to make is bound to start anyone reading it off on the wrong foot.
There are a lot of reasons, financial and personal, that some people should NOT purchase a home. However, wanting to purchase a home doesn't mean you're following a "herd" mentality. As much as your desire to rent is your personal decision for your finances, home-ownership is a personal choice as well. DH and I have money in the stock market, and we have friends who think that's crazy, and some who don't. Everyone chooses to invest and spend differently, and that doesn't necessarily make anyone right or wrong.Obviously in the current housing market, with the foreclosures and the politics involved with people who were purchasing homes that couldn't afford it, it's easy to really see the negatives in home ownership. But that doesn't mean it is not the right choice for a lot of people.
I also just want to point out quickly that just because the idea of home ownership was perpetuated as a part of the "American Dream" does NOT make it a "right." It's like driving. You choose to take a test to get a license. You choose to purchase or lease a car, and pay monthly car insurance. However, no one is in any way entitled to drive, just as no one is entitled to own a home.
Let preface with this with: I only read about a 1/3 of your novel.
I don't need a lecture on renting, thank you very much. Obviously there are a rare few rentals that are unattached with great landlords. Majority are not. So majority didn't have the pleasant experience you had. Not to mention, most detached house I see listed for rent either cost about as much and usually MORE than what my mortgage is (including taxes and insurance) per month. My old apartment was about 1/2 the cost of my mortgage but it was also 1/2 the size with older appliances, only 1 bathroom, and had a 2nd floor apartment with loud tenants. The benefits of owning grossly outway the 1 benefit of renting that: free maintenance.
I'm not even going to touch anything else you've written. What's really frustrating is that many of the regulars on here gave the OP some good advice. Even though many are homeowners we weren't all saying she should without a doubt buy now and not look back. I don't remember you ever posting here before. You are certainly entitled to post and give you opinion. That's not the issue. It's that you come on here, without knowing any of us, and basically blast all of us homeowners by insinuating that we bought because we have no idea how to manage our finances. I think many of the girls are just offended at this point.
Congrats on your marriage! :-)
We did not buy our forever home because we could not afford it and wanted to buy to get the $8K.
We bought a 2BR, 1Bath condo and it's a little small now with the two of us, two cats and one dog.
We plan to stay here for 5 - 6 years and then move into our forever home and get a gaggle of kids. :-)
We also hope to keep the condo, once we move, as a rental property.
"I don't need a lecture on renting, thank you very much."
(A) I wasn't writing to you. My first reply was to jackieo1309, the original poster asking for other people's opinions on home ownership, and whether they should buy now (and plan on moving sooner, like she wanted), or later (like her husband wanted); I think she should wait like her husband wants and like I advised bc that's the more fiscally responsible choice.
(B) I didn't give a lecture on renting, I presented some points on mistakes that millions of people make. They may or may not apply to you, but many of them are things that people who buying a home often forget to consider. Not everyone forgets to do this research, but many people know so little about buying they don't know where to start & it helps them to hear other points of view, as well as little reminders of things they might be forgetting to consider (even if they seem obvious to you).
I (and I am sure everyone else who reads threads without posting, or only posts occasionally) am VERY OFFENDED though by your statements about how the "regulars" are on here giving good advice bc they "know" each other, and saying that I "basically blast all of us homeowners by insinuating that we bought because we have no idea how to manage our finances," which is not true. I never said (and don't think) that people buy bc they can't manage their finances, I think they buy bc they want to buy.
I don't think bc you are a regular on an internet forum you "know" anyone though. I mean, how many of you know each other's first & last names, phone numbers, addresses, and hang out?? Plenty of people put things online, but I can assure you, you don't "know" someone just bc of what they post online. This is a public board, and anyone is allowed to post, and anyone is allowed to read the posts, whether or not they choose to post themselves. For all you know I've been reading and tracking every single post that's been made on this board for the past 5 years! Ooooooooo----SPOOKY! **rolling eyes**
The purpose of posting on ANY internet forum is to try to get information you don't have access to anywhere else. If I just wanted to get opinions back from people who were going to agree with me, then I'd only ask people who I know would agree with me. The OP asked for other people's opinions buy posting, if she only wanted "regulars" opinions she could have said that or paged or PMed specific people...you or any of the other "regulars." But she didn't so she should expect various opinions and advice that she, herself solicited. If you don't care, or don't agree, or are getting all upset, uh, just stop reading.
BTW I wonder how welcomed you would have felt when you first joined this forum if you were told that the only people allowed to offer advice were "regulars," and everyone else should keep their mouth shut since they don't "know" the other regulars well enough?
This is the internet, lady. Sheesh.
ps. to those who DIDN'T see my grinning smiley face emoticon following my tongue-in-cheek sentence "I think house buying is a scam" might want to have your computers checked...there is a problem with your display.
pps. @savetheword2014: THANK YOU FOR THE WEDDING CONGRATS!!!
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
Great thread on the whole homebuying topic with 2 points of view being presented (if you click on the link to read the first article)
http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/42681742.aspx
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
My main issue with your opinion is not that you have it (you are entitled to it after all), but that you make such broad statements to get your point across. Saying that no one should by a house because they might get divorced in 5 years is asinine. Saying that you have no business buying a home until you have a household income of at least $250k is one of the most ludicrous things I've seen in a long time - we make half that and trust me, it was far from a stupid decision. And, *gasp* we bought our house when we were 23 years old.
Are we an exception to your list of "rules"? maybe, but I don't think so. You make such gross, definitive guidelines for when someone should buy a house vs rent that I have a hard time taking you seriously. You sound like your spouting off stats from a bad research project.
Saying that no one should by a house because they might get divorced in 5 years is asinine.
Um, I read and reread what I wrote over & over and no where did I write anything about "no one should by a house" for ANY reason. Maybe your comprehension of what I wrote was poor. You should work on that.
Saying that you have no business buying a home until you have a household income of at least $250k is one of the most ludicrous things I've seen in a long time
Again, please QUOTE me where I said that. I didn't. I said/implied MOST people who make under $250k/yr will come out financially better over the long term, I never said that anyone who made less than that shouldn't buy a home. People buy for MANY reasons. I was just suggesting that the OP & her husband make sure they were doing it for the RIGHT reasons.
Honestly, I take it all back. I mean, the more young people buy now, the lower rents will fall for me over the next 20 years and the quicker I'll reach my own financial goals. Hee-hee, it's all an evil scheme. So ladies, buy buy buy!!! Your debt will increase interest rates, lowering the values of your homes further, and increasing my return on my liquid investments. Whoo-hooooooooooooooooooooooo!
(yes, that's a winky face) *rolls eyes* Some people get so defensive when their choices are challenged. I bet you are the same girls that flipped out on your vendors when your "dye lots" where off for your wedding. 
Seriously, a few of you girls need a reality check. This is the freakin' NEST.
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
Five stars for funnest post of the day though! Jackieo, you need to post more often
ETA: OK, now you're straight up attacking and name calling. Not cool.
?
My hubby & I rock the frock.
Bio
6.12.2010
your social interaction skills are poor - you should work on that.
Maybe I didn't read your novels closely enough and misunderstood what you were saying, for that I apologize. I don't think I made a far jump from reading into your opinions that people shouldn't be buying homes based on some of your "guidelines".
And that doesn't change the fact that your posts are filled with a holier-than-thou attitude and we're the ones that need a reality check? You come on here, less than 20 posts in 3 years making rude comments about and toward women on here who I know outside of the "freakin' NEST", so yes, I take offense.
My problem with you has nothing to do with you challenging the decisions I've made in my life. As I said before, you are entitled to your opinion on owning vs renting. My problem is that you are tactless and seem to enjoy ruffling feathers; someone who has the dissenting opinion just because they like to go against the grain.