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seriously need advice
I don't want this to be long, but it may be unavoidable...I won't DD, but I may edit out details after a little while just to keep it anonymous.
H and I have one sibling each, my sister, and his brother Jack. Both siblings are divorcing, my sister leaving her husband for another guy (although this isn't "out" yet), and my former SIL leaving Jack (likely for another guy but this isn't out yet either). My sister and I are decently close, but not close enough that she talks to me about any of this. I have met the new guy and I don't want to, until her divorce is final. She hasn't even filed a separation agreement and still brings her husband to all family functions. So my family isn't forced to move on just yet.
Jack's situation very different, they have kids, a seperation agreement is being worked out. Hand Jack are VERY close, they play in a band together. In fact, former SIL sited Jack's closeness with his brother as one reason for the divorce (ridiculous because it's really about the new guy, but she's thwarting blame). Jack called H literally the second that his wife's car left the drive way. His condition in the days following the news was awful, and the weeks following I would describe Jack as very needy, needing advice on everything, emailing/calling literally dozens of times a day. H is very supportive of Jack, always has been (Jack had cancer a few years back), and I've always said that being able to witness thier relationship is like watching a movie, it's beautiful, it's amazing as you would never predict it.
H and I are friends with Lois and Clark, we're in their wedding next week. Clark's sister is Jill, once divorced, once widowed, who has had lots of plastic surgery. I like Jill, she's very successful and her I got to become friends when she would come out with Lois and Clark. Many of those times she would come out was to see Jack and H's band and since H's seperation, she's started to come without Lois and Clark to see the band. She would say she was hanging out with me, in retrospect, it was to get closer to Jack. Jack and Jill are now hooking up in a fast and furious relationship.
OMG this is so long, I'm so sorry. Here's the meat of it. H and I are very against this relationship happening so fast. For one, we hate that it's in our circle of friends. Second, we're very stuck on our principles which tell us it's too fast. It's been about 4 months now, but this all started the week after the seperation and since no separation agreement is in place it's technially illegal. We're afraid it may have some impact on whether he'll get joint custody with his kids. We've tried to advise him just to slow down and be careful and this disagreement has literally but a wedge in Jack and H's relationship, one that I never thought would crumble. They barely speak and when they do, it's disagreeing.
To compare with my sister, it's just to new to embrace a new person, but we're forced to because we already know her. It's all so unavoidable, he now comes to all of our friends parties now with her. H invited Jack over and several times, she comes too. Jill and I were at Lois's bachelorette weekend, and she leaves for 8 hours to have lunch with Jack (making Lois cry). Jill is bringing jack to Lois and Clarks wedding and rehearsal dinner.
What finally prompted me to write this long overdue post is, there is a wine festival out of town that H and I have attended the past 8 years (coming up this weekend). Jack has come down the past few years, but with his wife, kids, and parents. This year, Jack is bringing Jill to it and doesn't even tell us. Jack just tells his mom he's going, so his mom mentions it to H.
Long story short, we don't love or hate her, but we hate that we think they're both making really bad decisions. While they are grown up and it's their mistakes to make, there are kids involved AND this is happening in a bubble, it's directly impacting jack and h's relationship. He quite literally is choosing her over H and it just doesn't seem right.
Please don't flame me, I recognize that we're not "right" here, but this is life and it's really affecting us.
Re: seriously need advice
You're right. They are grown ups and it's their decision to make. Your DH has advised him about consequences it could have on the custody, but that's really all he can do.
The only thing your H needs to decide is whether this issue is bigger than the strength of the relationship between H and Jack, and I hope that it is not.
MYOB.
thanks Karen...I feel like my feelings are swimming around the topic you zoned in on and that's how I need to advise my husband and myself.
Question though, I feel like this is good stance to have with my sister because we can have distance. I feel like we have to somewhat embrace it because she's around, she's in our circle of friends. No?
You really need to mind your own business. They are adults, capable of making their own decisions. You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, so don't be so judgey of everyone. Maybe Jack didn't tell you he's bring Jill to the wine fest because you two have been so judgemental of his relationship. Who the helll are you to decide what is right and wrong?
He isn't your H's boyfriend right? So really, He quite literally is choosing her over H and it just doesn't seem right. You and your H are being azzholes about his new girlfriend, no wonder he's chosing her. She's clearly the woman in his life now, so get the fvck over yourselves and grow up.
Honestly, I don't think either situation is an "embrace" or "reject" situation. It's adults making adult decisions that should have little impact on you.
No obviously, but all the things they used to do together, he now does with her and leave's H out. And when H used to be there all those dozens of times a day to give advice and just listen, he now turns to her.
Look I really want to listen to everyone's advice, that's why I came here...I'm ready for the good and the bad, but not the ugly. The insults, the modified curse words doesn't make for a helpful response.
But because he isn't doing what you all want him to do, you're taking it personally. But it's NOT ABOUT YOU. It's really not.
You all have to back away from this and realize he's an adult who can make these choices for himself. Most likely it's not going to last. This screams "rebound relationship". So back off, shut up, let it run its course and then be there for him when it ends without any "I told you so's".
And as said, realize that the reason he isn't telling you all that he's bringing her is because of you and your judgey attitude towards him. he knows how you feel. Trust me. HE KNOWS. And he probably simply doesn't want to deal w/ it so he's not talking to you all anymore.
right now, I'd actually say that your DH is "quite literally choosing his high and mighty attitude over his brother". it's more important to your DH to be right and for his brother to recognize that than it is to be there for his brother and continue to support him through this time.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
thank you Eastcoast Bride, you made some really valid points that tearfully hit home. You're right, he knows and he's distancing himself from us because he doesn't want to hear it rather than he's choosing her over him.
The only part I for sure disagree with is we don't expect him to say, you're right, we're breaking up. But, they could just slow it down. H specifically asked him not to come to the rehearsal dinner since he would clearly be there as a date of Jill, whereas the wedding he was invited on his own. I honestly think he could oblige to that as it's just so awkward and out there with it being such an intimate group of friends "why is H's brother here, he's with Jill, OMG". They're already planning out holidays and it's like whoa whoa whoa, you're not legally even allowed to date.
I'm not sure it's your husband's place to say that. It wasn't his rehearsal dinner. And if Jill was standing up to the wedding, she gets to bring a date to the rehearsal dinner unless restricted by the bride and groom. And if the bride and groom had a problem, the shouldn't have asked your H to say something, they should have approached it themselves.
I'm not disagreeing that they're moving too fast. I'm just saying it's not your concern to dwell on.
Plus, if Jill is invited to the RD w/ a date, that is a choice of the bride and groom - not you. It may be an intimate group, but if she's allowed a date, she's allowed a date.
You've got to back away from this. You really do. Here's the flip side to this - if this relationship actually does last, if it actually does become serious and they get married and live happily ever after, you and your DH have set the standard that you don't approve and dont' "like" Jill. And they will probably forever keep you all at a distance. Because they will always feel that you "don't approve".
Is this really what you want?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
But, they could just slow it down. H specifically asked him not to come to the rehearsal dinner since he would clearly be there as a date of Jill,
So, your H is telling him where he is allowed to go and not go? Really?
You don't see this as a problem? It is NONE of your business where he goes and who he goes with? You have no right to tell him what he can and can not do. I find it very disturbing that you and your H think you have the right to judge and make decisions for this man.
No curse words this time I promise. But seriously, why do they need to slow it down for your sake? This is their lives. Clearly they've hit if off, so whether it fits your timeline for what you think they should be doing, doesn't really matter. If you are a good friend/family member, you would be supportive.
You said he has a separation agreement in the works, and his STBHW is already seeing someone, so legality is kind of a mute point.
Divorce/separation isn't an easy thing for people to deal with. Until you've been in his shoes cut them man some slack. Guaranteed his marriage was "over" a long, long time ago, before anyone else had a clue. He feels ready, and is happy, so let the man live without thinking about how it is affecting you.
So is your question about the wine festival? You don't have to have Jack and Jill over to your house, and you don't have to hang with them if you don't want to. Wine festivals are pretty big. If you see them by the cabernet, just say "oh, hi!" and keep walking. Even better if you have a mouth full of wine and you can spit it somewhere and make it look like that's part of the wine-tasting experience.
I would personally be angry at Jill for "using" me as an excuse to get close to my married BIL.
They have made the choice to be together, now you and H need to make the choice whether or not you want to hang with them if you know they are now a package deal.
And the kicker is going to be - - long after Jack breaks up with Jill b/c he thinks she's a crazy b*tch, he will still resent you and DH. And STBX SIL will probably blame you and DH for "allowing them to be together," or "fixing them up" even when she's no longer mad at Jack.
I understand your frustration and yes, you're being judgey. No, you shouldn't apologize for that part of it. What you should apologize for is verbalizing that judgement. Judge all you want; you'd have to be dead to not have an critical opinion on this rebound relationship, but keep it to yourself.
Agree with PP who pointed out that on the off chance this relationship works out, you'll have already burned bridges. Apologize to Jack and Jill, back off, and just grin and bear it.
You realize that this is not a normal relationship, right? Personally, I would have smacked my DH if he was taking dozens of calls every day from any one individual that wasn't his boss.
I think the problem is that you, and especially your DH, were Jack's emotional crutch during a difficult time and you liked that dynamic. You got to be the "saviors" of sorts. The white knights riding in to save the poor man whose wife left him,
Now that he has someone in his life that he is leaning on instead of you two, you really sound a bit jealous. And if you are really worried about Jack, why is this whole post about how this (what will probably be a short term) relationship impacts you when you are not a party to the relationship?
Like many a PP said, you have given your opinion. Now it is time to MYOB and stay out of it.
First I want to thank everyone for their advice. Writing the post, and listening to responses, really helped me to figure it all out in my head. Mainly, I don't want to stop the relationship, or judge it...I want to try and accept it but at this point I cannot embrace it YET. Under normal circumstances, this would mean accepting the fact that he has a girlfriend, but not invite her over to our house...since we already know her it's hard to draw these boundaries, she's just always there so it's not a matter of not inviting her or including her. That 's how I feel like we're being forced to embrace this relatinoship. So I really need advice on toeing that line of being accepting (because I want to) but not promoting it. So for the wine fest, if I see them I'll say hi and make conversation. But should we call them and invite them to go out to do stuff with us. It would be weird to, it would be weird not too.
Here are some unorganized responses to others posts
Karome...no I totally agree, and it took a big step back for me to realize that we were something special during a significant time in someone's life and we were mourning that, even though it's a good thing he's not so needy. That neediness really peaked in the few days after the seperation so literally any time he had a new thought, perspective, or worry he reached out: which was good, better then keeping it in.
You dont' have to "embrace" it, per se, but you do have to respect it. This is what he is choosing to do and who he is choosing to do it with. It's not about the two of you at all.
This is who he wants to spend his time w/, and by you all not wanting to include her, you are still forcing YOUR standards on him of how a new relationship should progress.
Seriously- if you keep this up, you are going to do more damage and possibly permanent damage. To the point that even if they do break up, he realizes the errors of his ways, eventually meets "the one" - he may not include you all in any of that.
Again, I ask, is that what you want?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
no that's not what I want.
But I don't want them making out in my house either.
*bangs head on desk*
MIND
YOUR
OWN
BUSINESS
Time to put on your big girl panties
I've got your rainbows and ponies right here
Why don't you save everyone the drama and end the relationship now because you and your H are on your high horses and refuse to come down.
How old are you? If your not in high school then you need to LET IT GO.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
It was just an off the wall comment to show another extreme...I'm backing down
Im sorry dear none of this way long story short...long story long perhaps....
MYOB. And if they start heavy petting on your couch, feel free to break them up.
This. I'd suggest getting the hose.
Other than that, though, it's clear here that you're just not getting it, despite all of the great advice you've been given, so there's no sense in me wasting my time.