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Homeless in laws still coming down for weekend
Backstory: M & FIL foreclosed on a house in DH's name two years ago, started renting a place they couldn't afford and finally got evicted 2 weeks ago. FIL works in an industry where he is laid off for 1/2 the year almost every year. They have been very irresponsible over the years and every time they come to visit we end up paying for their gas/tolls for the way home. I am due with the first grandchild in 7 weeks. They live in NY, we are in MD (about a 5 hr drive).
MIL desperately wants to attend my shower in 2 weeks. I didn't particularly want to invite her but I was somewhat forced into it (we don't get along too well in general). I think it's silly to travel so far for a shower, especially when they had no plan for after the baby is here. I was feeling generous and gave them the gift of the hotel room during their stay for the shower as a birthday gift.
They are currently staying in a hotel and "trying" to find a place to rent. MIL thinks she is too good for a simple apartment and doesn't understand that $2000 a month when you are on disability/unemployment is unreasonable. We thought when we got word they were evicted they would decide not to come down for the shower.
I am stressing out about them coming down and then mooching off of us and not having a way to get home if we don't pay for it. 'm really worried I'm going to be miserable at my shower because she is around, I cannot pretend to put up with their crap anymore. DH tried to call them last night to tell his father that they are essentially "uninvited" but he didn't answer. We're not really sure how to approach telling them that even if they come down, we will not see them.
Even if we tell them we're not paying for the hotel they will still come down, so unfortunately that wont solve anything. MIL lives in a fantasy land where money grows on trees and they live minute by minute, they have never planned or saved in their lives. As much as I'd like to cut them off for good, we know at some point they will want/have to see the baby so I would rather save us paying for the hotel until Dec/Jan when we will want visitors.
I need advice for phrasing of this conversation. I know it will likely have an Armageddon effect but I can't handle the stress of thinking we will have to shell out money for their visit with so little time left before the baby comes. I also don't want to have to pretend to like this woman for a few hours at my shower and then be forced to have her to our place for dinner or visit with them that weekend.
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated, I hate that we have to deal with this. DH and I have gone to counseling in the past to address his need to cut them off but somehow they keep weaseling their way into our lives.
Re: Homeless in laws still coming down for weekend
I think I'm going to need a little bit more information on why you hate your ILs so much. How exactly did they forclose on a house in your H's name? What does your H say about that situation?
You're ILs are broke. That's really not any of your business. You don't have to pay for their gas on their way home. For some reason, I am doubting that they ask you for this (but I could be wrong) given that your MIL insists on living in a $2K/mo apartment. The only reason she is coming to your shower is because you invited her, and offered to pay for her hotel. Both of these things pretty much seem to me like your fault.
If you don't want them there, call them and tell them not to come. But hellyes it is going to cause an issue. You invited them down, you offered to pay for their visit, and now for no notable reason you are going to call and say, "Never mind, we don't want to see you." Anybody would be hurt about that-it is not specific to your MIL and FIL. And, FWIW, I don't think that having a baby in 7 weeks is an excuse to treat people poorly.
Even if we tell them we're not paying for the hotel they will still come down, so unfortunately that wont solve anything. MIL lives in a fantasy land where money grows on trees and they live minute by minute, they have never planned or saved in their lives. As much as I'd like to cut them off for good, we know at some point they will want/have to see the baby so I would rather save us paying for the hotel until Dec/Jan when we will want visitors.
You say it a few times,but read the two bolded statements. Do you not see the irony?
of course she thinks money grows on trees because you and DH keep giving it to them! If you really want this to END, then STOP GIVING THEM MONEY!
Beyond that, if she does come for the shower, you have control over how much it bothers you. You're really going to hand over the power to her that her being there will ruin it for you? Come on.
I get that you're upset, I get that you dont' want to give them money (and where exactly does your DH stand on this?!), but really - if she "ruins" your shower, that's really on you, not her. Stop giving her so much power.
And again - stop giving them money. they might actually not come and visit if they realize they won't be given anything.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Hey hun,
I think you and DH are stuck with the shower visit, since you already put the offer out there and they are counting on the hotel room. However, I wouldn't pay for anything else. Everytime you do, you're enabling this behavior and just showing them that it's acceptable. No matter what you think or say, you're still giving them unspoken approval for their actions by paying for gas or tolls.
STOP paying for things.
I partly agree with the PP. They are bad with money and pretty much SOL in terms of living arrangements...not your problem. You and DH have a lot more on your plate right now, so you can't let yourself get sucked in. REMOVE yourself from it. Seriously.
So when she's here for the shower, just treat her politely and then immerse yourself with the other guests. Have DH deal with them directly. "Oh, Snoopy is tired right now, we can't do ABC or XYZ." "Sorry Mom, we can't give you money for tolls/gas."
How do they mooch off you for gas money & such? Do they hint around a lot? You need to talk to H and figure out a strategy for handling these requests without giving them money. "We're not sure where we are gonna get the money for gas...." "Gee, MIL, that's unfortunate. Have you tried the bean dip?" Direct requests for money - "Sorry, MIL, we can't right now." No explanation, no further discussion. They only mooch off you because you give them money. They will figure out a way to get home.
And I agree with ECB -don't let her ruin your shower. Focus on enjoying time with all your guests.
You invited them to the shower, so it would be awful to uninvite them at this time. I would not be offering to pay for their hotel room when they come to visit the baby after the birth. Again, you need to let them figure it out.
Is it just a money thing or is there more going on?
I generally agree with ECB: you are giving your MIL too much power. Her attendance at your baby shower really shouldn't make you miserable. Like it or not, she is part of your family. You will need to find a way to manage your own feelings on an event by event basis.
If you don't have the money to pay for the shower visit, there is not much to phrase. You say: MIL, you are welcome to come and visit and be a part of the shower, but we simply don't have any extra funds to pay for your gas or accomodations.
Every time they ask for money, tell them: no. You are the ones making it hard, not them. They will ask and ask and ask because you give them money. If you stop giving them money, they will eventually stop asking. It's like dealing with a child.
There is definitely way more going on, but most of it revolves around the previously foreclosed house, running up of the CC's and stealing his little brother's money for their own gain.
These are disgustingly terrible people but DH still feels a kinship and cannot let go. Our only topic of any fight is his parents and their effect on our life.
You cannot imagine what it feels like to have to worry that your little brother has to sleep in a car because his parents can't pay their rent, or even that your god awful parents have to sleep in the car. The key here is that I was OK with being civil to her before they got evicted but the fact is they are HOMELESS and have NO BUSINESS spending money to come down for a stupid baby shower. That's the bottom line and no one can argue that logic.
Ugh, this sounds like a shiitty situation all around. And if you show up on my doorstep with them, I'll kick your ass.
You and DH need to get on the same page for the shower weekend and then start tackling long-term. Esp if he is inclined to give in and try to keep this relationship going (kinship, as you say).
Maybe call them before the shower wknd and lay it out, saying "We will cover your hotel, but gas and tolls are your responsibility." And then both of you STICK TO IT. If they give you the "well, we can't get home..." just say "I'm sorry, we told you that we can't give you money for gas or tolls anymore. It's your responsibility." And don't let them stay with you.
As for at the shower, you don't have to be rude to her, you can just talk to other people. Even assign a friend or family member to be your "rescuer" - like anytime she starts talking to you, this friend will come up and either join the conversation or pull you away with an excuse.
I get that you're not actively giving them money all the time, but it sounds like you and DH don't agree on how to handle them. So you either get in touch with them (keep calling unless their phone has been cut off) and tell them that you can't afford to bring them here for the weekend, or you get on the same page ASAP for how you're going to handle money requests/hints this visit and in the future.
ETA: Okay, so they DO ask for it directly. You and your DH NEED to decide RIGHT NOW how to answer this. "No, Mom. We already told you that we can cover hotel and that's it. Sorry" or "No Mom. We aren't able to do that. Sorry" Or some other version of it. That's it. If they start the "we cant' get home...." you just repeat "I'm sorry. We aren't able to help you."
They keep asking BECAUSE they know you'll give in eventually.
The only concern I would have would be for the teen brother. Can you find ways to help him directly that MIL/FIL can't access? Can he come live with you? How soon until he graduates from highschool?
Ok - hold up. You say you haven't given them money since your wedding. But then you say that you give them money to get home. Have you not seen them in 2 years?
They come for the shower and ask for money to get home? You say "Sorry, we can't help you out". Period. They try to stay at the hotel? Then they'll get kicked out. Saying no to giving them gas money doesn't mean you now have to let them stay w/ you.
Again, they do this because you all keep giving them money!
As for the brother - I dont' know what to tell you there. I think, though, that DH's parents know that because of the brother, your DH won't "let them starve". But really, maybe that is what he needs to do. Can he give his brother money on the sly? Would his brother take it and not tell the parents? I hate to suggest that, but if that would help your DH feel better but not enable his parents, maybe that's an option.
The shower - you need to be civil to her. I get your anger, but no, you can't just walk away from her. But come up w/ some "I have to get out of this conversation" statements. "Oh, hi MIL. Are you enjoying the food? Great. Oh, excuse me - I see Aunt Sally who I haven't talked to yet...".
HOnestly, I think you and your DH need counseling. Or something more. You say you don't want them to visit becasue you dont' want to enable them. You need help w/ this line of thinking. Them coming to visit isn't what "makes" you enable them. YOU and YOUR DH are making the choice on your own to enable them. You have more control here than you realize.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I can't say "I know what you're going through" b/c I don't. But, my sister and BIL are your IL's. And my parents are you and your DH.
They have a 3 year old and don't handle money well at all. BIL couldn't hold a job and sister makes crap. They couldn't pay bills, couldn't buy food, etc. My parents ended up paying for groceries, rent, gas, daycare, buying sister EVERYSINGLEFUCKING baby supply she needed b/c they would call and say "We cant' afford ABC this month." And my parents didn't want their daughter or their grandson to go hungry or homeless...or ride around on bald tires. Or not have a winter coat. Or not have shoes that fit. On and on and on.
Sister asked me for money ONCE. I told her flat out "nope. not gonna happen" and she never asked again.
But I saw the emotional toll it took (and still takes) on my parents. FINALLY, nearly 10 years later, my parents have begun to extract themselves financially. First, they told sister "We'll pay for rent or daycare. You decide. And no extras (gas, food, etc)." And she said okay. Then they cut the amount and said "We will give you $X per month. No more." Now they are reducing that.
All told, they've probably given BIL and sister about $100K in 10 years (everything from $1250/month rent, $900/month daycare, clothes, food, gas, extras such as classes for BIL b/c he swore he wanted to be a realtor or a resume workshop for BIL b/c he swore he wasn't getting a job b/c his resume sucked...)
It hurts them SO much to see their daughter and grandson go through this. But it's NOT THEIR PROBLEM TO FIX. It took years of therapy for them to get to this point. It's not easy, and it hurts to say no, but it's a necessity.
You really need to start putting yourself first, ahead of the ILS. It's the first step in putting the needs of YOUR OWN CHILD first, ahead of your ILS.
Realize that you can't control anyone but yourself. Not your ILS, not your H. However, you CAN protect yourself.
Put your foot down and tell your H that he is not allowed to invite his parents into your apt. It is too stressful to you, and if they come in, HE is moving into the hotel until they leave. If they want a meal and he wants to feed them, he is not allowed to invite them to your apt. He can take them to pizza or McDonald's or wherever you can afford, but
Also, he must do these things ALONE!!! You CANNOT complain about your ILS, then turn around and accomodate them "because you dont' want to be mean" "because you don't want the rest of the family angry at you," or "because MIL throws a tantrum." If you give in to them, then stop whining and realize that you are part of the problem, and they will never change until you do.
So, if your H feels bad that his parents are all alone in the hotel with no food - - tell them "go take them out for pizza." (I'd advise him to bring $20 cash, enough to pay for a pie and soda, so they don't take advantage). But he goes ALONE. Sometimes dealing with his parents without you to help him out will make the experience more difficult and he'll think twice about doing it again. Or he'll come home and see how relaxed you are, while he was going bonkers with his parents.
As for the shower - - make arrangements to attend the shower early. Or spend the night at the house where the shower will be. Or arrange for a friend to drive you (picking you up early if need be). If your family hates your MIL, then they'll help you out there. And you do not HAVE to entertain MIL the whole time. Tell her "eat up now, the food's free here, and it's all you can eat!" and walk away. You have many guests to speak to, not just MIL. Yes, you CAN tell her you won't be going with her. You need the extra space in your car to bring home gifts.
I would also speak to the hotel and tell them that you are ONLY paying for the room, not for any incidentals. So your ILS cannot buy anything and charge it to the room - including movies, snacks, meals, a newspaper, etc. I know you can arrange this, b/c my husband travels on business with a corporate account, and he's not allowed to make any room charges - he has to provide his own cc.
As for your H's extended family being angry with him - - you've got to get over that. I'm not sure why their approval means to much to you. My parents are complete enablers as well, and tried to convince me to convince my H to resume communication with his dad and stepmom (who treated him horribly). I told them it was none of their business and to focus on their own relationships. Opinions are like a-holes - everyone has one!
Oh, and if the 17 year old brother is not getting enough to eat, he's old enough to get a job and support himself. He can at least ensure that he's fed enough, and could probably get a job doing construction.
I have relatives who joined the police or fire academy at age 18 and are now making great money.
OMG DITTO on the hotel room incidentals. An $80/night hotel room could easily go WAY up if they order room service or movies or whatnot...and it sounds like they totally would.
I would call the hotel in ADVANCE and tell the front desk that this credit card is not authorized for incidentals or whatever. If they order something, they can not charge it to the room.
Luckily we are only paying for the hotel room with a giftcard we purchased specifically for their birthday present, we are not giving them CC info. No way no how.
Thank you for being compassionate and understanding the emotional piece of this. I tend to be the "colder" one out of DH and I but it still kills me to see people go through this, no matter the reason.
I have a crazy Italian family, too. I don't engage with the crazy.
If you and your husband are worried about his brother's health and safety, call child protective services or the department of family and child services or whatever your local equivalent is and have his parents investigated. Get him an attorney and have him press charges against his parents for stealing his paychecks.
Really, though, the two of you seem to be sending a LOT of mixed messages, and it seems like you can't come to an agreement or clarity on what you want and need. If his extended family are a bunch of nutters who don't see the problem with his parents, you don't have to keep talking to them, either! You don't need other people's approval for your life choices. You say you want to cut them off; your therapist has said you need to cut them off; and yet you invite her to your shower and offer to pay for a hotel, and you're contemplating offering to pay for a hotel for them to come see you after the baby's born. These two things don't go hand-in-hand.
And you don't have to set it up in your head as "If we don't do X, the only option for them is Y." Like "we give them money or they stay with us." Wrong! Their bad planning and their bad choices are on them. If they have to go find the nearest YMCA because they don't have the money to get back home, let them do it.
I also can't even comprehend why you'd want these people in your child's life. They stole from your husband; they stole from your brother-in-law; what makes you think they'd scruple at stealing from your child? Opening credit cards in his or her name and charging them up?
You and your DH need to get on the same page and figure out how to deal with them and set some very clear boundaries on this relationship -- today.
I agree with you completely that at 17 he can pay for himself and get a job. But when your parents won't drive you to said job unless you give them rent money, that kind of puts a damper on your earnings. They unfortunately live in a place without public trans and his friends cannot always drive them. It is truly sick what they have done to BIL but he grew up in this paycheck by paycheck life and doesn't understand that he doesn't have to live that way either.
I am wrong. BIL is 18, not 17 so CPS is a non-issue.
We are sending mixed messages because I think we somehow think they will change. We know they really aren't going to change but I think DH holds out hope. He has a lot of good memories of being a kid and his parents being awesome but once all these money problems started when he was about 11 it went downhill fast.
I agree we need to set better boundaries and that's why we started counseling years ago but it just fell by the wayside when we cut off communication for over a year after the foreclosure. She happened to have a stroke after that and we went to visit them and that started the communication again. He feels sorry for his father and brother and in some ways his mother because he thinks she's got mental illness. It's a super sad situation, but it really angers me because not once have we been apologized to for anything they've done.
I really appreciate everyone that's listened and provided advice. I know what I have to do but it's so hard to tell your husband you don't want any communication with his family ever again. I hope that no one ever has to do that.
I am sorry you are going through this.
That being said, your DH needs to stop enabling. He needs to stop the cash handouts. You need to be a united front and tell them no.
My ILs are in major debt (medical bills) and this is after they live month to month cause they don't know how to save or spend wisely. H & I feel bad but helping them would hurt us financially. So we don't.
Do you still have any sort of relationship with them?
You need to go back to counseling, I think. Your DH needs help. He really does. I get that he wants to be a good son, but he has to look at how this is affecting YOU, his wife. And also, how it's affecting him. I'm sure he's terribly stressed over all of this, and feels guilty, etc.
He needs help.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
OP, I've read most of this thread, and I'm really getting a sense of resistance coming from you. You say you don't want to pay for them, but how are you backing that up? No one can force you into paying for them unless they actively stick their hand in your wallet and pull out your money. And although the house foreclosure situation came damn close, emotional blackmail is something that you decide if you want to fall victim to or not. And that's what's going on here: emotional blackmail.
All you have to do is make things crystal clear to everyone involved (assuming your DH is on the same page as you are here): if they come out for the shower, you aren't going to give them one penny over the hotel room itself (nothing else in the room, either). If they say that they can't get home, then ask them if the trip is worth it to them, because they can't stay with you. Set those boundaries, make things clear. Because right now, they're behaving the way they are because you're letting them.
You might end up looking like the "bad guy" and you know what? That's okay. You're looking after your home, your family, and if they have a problem with that, it's their problem, not yours and your H's. It's not your job to police them in re your BIL either - if they're stealing his paycheck, it's up to him to act, not you. I get that you're worried about him, but he's 18 and an adult and he'll take care of himself. If you keep worrying about him, he's going to end up like your ILs, thinking that you and DH will take care of him when he's stuck. And that's not healthy.
I know it's going to be hard, I would never argue that. But I think that if you do it, you'll realize that it's worth it in the end.