Caribbean Nesties
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
November (and other moms)
What do you feel you could have done to prevent having to get a C-section?
I'm genuinely curious about this stuff. I think it may be because I'm still a couple years away from the baby train, but I am also curious about why moms get very stuck on how they want their birth to be-- whether it's "natural", home birth, vaginal birth, etc. Is it just a "This is my vision and expectations, so I'd be disappointed if things don't go that way" thing? Or is it another one of those intense urge things that you only understand when you are a pregnant lady. Like the whole "MUST.BREASTFEED.RESISTANCE.FUTILE" thing we discussed a while back.
Learn me.
Re: November (and other moms)
I was never hard stuck on the type of birth I wanted other than not wanting a c-section. And that is for several reasons.
1. it's surgery
2. you don't generally get to hold or nurse your baby right away
3. if it is am emergency you could be completely sedated
4. a lot more people in the room
5. can't bond with your child and your husband as easily
If it had to happen it would have to happen, but I am glad it didn't.
ETA: and I realize that didn't address your initial ?, but it seemed like you were asking for this too
I do think that an easy thing to prevent a c-section is to choose a doctor that doesn't have an itchy trigger finger.
I think most people want a vaginal birth b/c it's generally preferable to avoid major invasive surgery if possible.
That said, I think I'd push for a C-section over induction, since everyone I know who was induced, other than Noisy, ended with a C-section anyway,
I think a lot of it has to do with vision + the current natural childbirth trend that paints women w/ c-sections as victims or failures and who wants to be labeled as that?
Personally, I bought into a lot of natural child birth stuff and felt really bad afterwards when I "gave in" and requested an epidural. I sort of think the epi was the reason I ultimately needed a vaccum-assisted delivery, so I guess I still have issues about it.
I specifically hoped to avoid a c-section b/c I was convinced that I would start going to the gym immediately after the delivery (Ha!!) and surgery would make that difficult.
We wanted a home birth. Going 42w and having to be induced made this impossible. Ben trying to come out of my lady bits with the side of his head, then his heart beat becoming faint (even with an internal monitor) and my heart beat becoming faint made the emergency c-section the only reality.
Why did I not want one?
- It is major surgery...stuff can go massively wrong (can with a vaginal birth too but the risks are higher with a c-section).
- We wanted a non "medical" birth.
- I only got to hold Ben for like 2 minutes until he (and Joey) had to go away. I spent a good 2-3 hours alone in recovery until I got to see them again.
- I did not get to breastfeed right away. I did not get to have him put up onto my chest.
- I could not lift him in and out of his crib.
- I could not laugh at all the silly things he was doing.
Why am I glad that I had one?
- Because he got here safely
- Because the moments right before he was born and right after he was born are hands down the best 2 moments in my entire life.
- Joe got to tell me it was a boy (or as he put it "it's ben...it's a ben")
- every time I see my scar I smile and think about how tiny he was to fit through it. You just can not do that with a vag tear.
I am (hopefully) still months away from delivery, so take this for what it's worth, but thus far I have not felt any irresistible urge, or come to any conclusion, that there is a "right" type of birth for me. For me, birthing is a means to an end and will not define me as a woman or a parent. Plus, for me, no matter which way it happens, most of the experience will be unpleasant. It's just a matter of which unpleasantness you happen to end up with (kind of like playing Press Your Luck, but every space on the board is a whammy).
Obviously, some issues are much more serious than others, and I want to get out of there without having my or the baby's health ever being in jeopardy. There are also other issues I hope to avoid (e.g. I don't want my health care provider to ignore me when I speak or talk about me as if I'm not in the room). I'm trying to educate myself about birthing methods and the various advantages and risks associated with all of them, but I don't have one, undeniable, idealized birthing method in mind. If I end up laboring for a while and ending up with a c-section, I'll probably be pissed that I spent all the time and effort on labor, but I don't think I'll end up feeling like any part of parenthood was taken from me, which seems to be what I see a lot on the Natural Birth board.
and me. And my coworker although I realize you don't know her. But I vouch for her.
I really wish that I had done some sort of birth plan prep work. I knew that I preferred to try to have a vaginal birth but I did no homework on pain management and trying to envision a more drug-free birth. In that respect, I feel that I was woefully underprepared for labor and delivery.
I will always wonder if I got the epi too early, and that caused me to stall out, needing a c-section. In the end, it doesn't matter much -- I had a healthy baby and recovered well from the surgery. In the scheme of things, it's really a minor complaint. But, I think moms are conditioned to feel guilty if they are not doing the 'right' thing for their babies (ie not feeding their child crushed up bug formula, as I did).
See I was at least happy that I got to experience labour. I know it sounds stupid but as much as it hurt like a sonofabitch I am so glad that I got to experience insane contractions etc etc.
Yeah, I didn't want a section because of the surgery aspect as others have mentioned. I wouldn't have been devastated or wept over it like some do on the bump, but I did everything I could to avoid it.
I think a major part of it is simply making sure your doctor (and even the delivery nurses) is on board with your wishes. I knew I wanted a med-free birth. When the nurse that did our admittance paperwork said "Oh people say that, but nobody ever actually makes it. You might as well get the epidural now", I was ready to request that she not be one of my nurses. I didn't have to since she was getting off shift anyway.
I did not have a birth plan --other than wanting an epidural. I can see the value in having a plan in that you can set out what's important to you, but there are also so many variables I didn't want to be disappointed if things didn't go as I'd envisioned them. Nothing (other than having F there) was important enough to me that I needeed to set it out in writing. Since I used a midwife I wasn't afraid of being pushed into a C-section.
I'm not sure if I was technically considered induced, but I did take drugs to start contractions after my water broke, and I did not need a section.
all it takes is a mirror.
hm. i am not sure what i could have done to prevent it, since i kind of felt blindsided by the fact that i learned alison was breech and my fluid levels were dropping 4 days past my due date and they were like "mmmkay you're going in for surgery today" so i just had to go along with that.
I went into it trying to keep an open mind about how i would deliver, but I had always said "..but i just hope i don't need a c-section" because i was afraid of major abdominal surgery. drugs or no, i was really really hoping she would come out the pre-installed hole.
i guess that is what i get for having expectations of any kind!
and now in retrospect i sometimes wonder if i would have been prepared for labor...i really felt like a big blood engorged woodtick at that point and could barely hoist my fat ass up on the operating table for my spinal. and i cried because i thought they'd cut me open before the thing kicked in. who knows!
The thing i didn't mind about the c section was that once the thing was underway, wham bam thank you ma'am here's your baby. all very quick and perfunctory. but i was pretty overwhelmed by the OR and all the people. and the operating table with the strapped down arms.
i also hated not being able to hold her right away, and not getting that snuggle time right away.
and having the c- has had long term negative effects due to my incision complications.
i also go back and forth now about future children if i should try to go for a VBAC or if i should just go with the flow and get another section. i feel like having had so little time to think about it the first time around complicates my future decisions. on the one hand they could fix my effed up scar...on the other hand i would be very traumatized if i had issues with infection again. and i still wouldn't know what actually going into labor felt like. (unless i went early of course)
How cute is that??
I think I told the whole story at one point, but I had a planned c-section. I don't view it as elective, but I pushed for it because I just knew it would happen anyway.
He was breech late in my pregnancy, therefore, my doctor scheduled it. He ended up turning, which was very unexpected that late in the game (we didn't know that until the day before the c/s). However, due to his position, the fact that my doctor could not feel him (even though he was measuring very large - he was not dropping), and my family history, I said I still wanted the c/s.
Even if I hadn't requested it, I would have ended up needing one. He never would have dropped. He was so far up, that my doctor still had to use suction. The cord was also wrapped around his neck twice.
All that said, I loved the way it all happened. I had him in my arms while they were still working on me. I held him every minute that they weren't working on him. I started bfing as soon as he was done with that first bath. It was so stress free and "easy." The only difficulty I had post-birth was the fact that I lost a lot of blood (sorry if that is TMI). That made it difficult for me to stand up that first day (they tried getting me to walk later that evening, but I was so light headed that I almost fell and smooshed the pint sized nurse that was helping me).
Sorry to post and run, got a pile of work thrown at me.
The not wanting surgery totally makes sense. I'm talking the women who seem so absolutely resistant to it, who feel that they've somehow failed or had something taken from them, and who will be sad and upset about it after, even if it went fine and mom and baby came out of it healthy.
I like hearing these stories. I have a tiny glimmer of hope that it will make me calmer/more prepared for all of the possibilities when I get to that stage in my life.
This is probably due to the way I give birth (faster than pizza delivery), but I don't understand this "prepared" stuff. I mean, I think its helpful to understand how it works, be able to make decisions, and feel mentally prepared. But I think its still just helpful rather than necessary. Other than trigger happy doctors, I think physiology is more a factor in c-sections than anything else. Then again, I've had two babies and never knowingly pushed. You can see how that might color one's perceptions.
Nov, I don't know if this will comfort you or not, but the evidence is on the side of epidurals not slowing birth and early epidurals don't seem to make c-sections much more likely. Of course no one can know in any particular instance, but I hope you're not holding your pain tolerance accountable.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
See, every journal article and metastudy I've ever read says exactly the opposite. It's not the drugs that slow it, it's being confined to laying on your back. Movement/walking/etc is really good for getting labor going and the earlier you get an epi, the less of that you can do.
The hair grows in thick where the horn used to be.
THIS to all of this.
Jens, the gist of trying to prevent a c-section is to let nature take its course as long as you can stand it. Studies have shown that one intervention often leads to another. Choosing a provider who is comfortable with this is the first step.
The hair grows in thick where the horn used to be.
There are questions about whether hosptial/OB delivery SOP actually aids or impedes birth physiology.
Mucho likes purple nails and purple cupcakes
I have a friend who had a c-section with her first due to low amniotic fluid, and two subsequent c-sections. She has three children and never felt a contraction, and she feels a bit like she missed out.
Re: preparedness, I think it's a good idea to think about how you'll cope with pain, whether you are planning to go med-free or planning get the epi ASAP. You'll have to cope with the contrax until you get it, and even then there's no guarantee that you'll have time to get it, that it will work like it is supposed to, etc. Similarly, if you have a very specific birth plan in mind, I think it's a good idea to think about how you'll cope if things don't go as planned.
Due to the herp, I was mentally preparing myself the entire pregnancy for the possibility of a c-section, even though I was very much determined to go med-free. I think now, knowing how good it can be, I would be much more disappointed if I have to have a c-section for a subsequent pregnancy than I would have been if that's the way MC had come. But when/if the time comes, and that's what needs to happen, then that's what will happen and I will find joy in the experience regardless.
Mucho likes purple nails and purple cupcakes
I personally couldn't have done anything as Jane was breech (or was an hour before the c/s - she flipped some time in between). I don't feel I'm less of a parent/ or whatever the crazies on the bump say. Since I didn't have a choice, I'd like the option to try VBAC, but in a "I'd like to go to India at some point" kind of way.
My doctor doesn't "accept" birth plans, which I thought was weird, but she explained that some (not all, obvs.) people get so attached to the plan that when one thing doesn't go according to plan they get stressed, which can lead to more deviations from the plan, which leads to more stress... So the practice just said no birth plans; it's easier to go with the flow rather than try to stick to an agenda. I'm not sure I buy it, but they've delivered more babies than me.I'm not denying that there are myriad crazies on the Bump, but I've never seen anyone suggest that a woman is any less of a mother for having a C-section, not even on the Natural Birth board.
Most of the "birth grief" I've read about has more to do with the way they were treated during labor and delivery than the actual c-section (or whatever the result of their labor was). Feeling helpless, being treated like a ninny, being subjected to procedures without your consent and actually against your expressed wishes because of bad doctors and nurses, and on top of that, being in horrible pain...I can see how that would fukc with your head about birth in general.
I don't buy the argument that the healthy baby is the only legitimate goal. The most important, sure. But birth, any birth, can be such an amazing, empowering experience, and can contribute positively to the health of the mother and the baby -- to me, that's something to be valued, not discounted as a selfish desire on the behalf of the mother.
And, I'm this-ing Lindsay. Knowing now how great birth can be, I suppose I might be more disappointed the second time around if I end up with a section than I would have been had I never had such a great experience with med-free vaginal birth.
The hair grows in thick where the horn used to be.
This is very close to how I felt with my very quick, med-free birth. Even with Bug where I had planned on being med-free. I didn't have bad doctors, but consent was minimal, I was treated like I was over-reacting, I did not like how things were going but was powerless to change it and I was in incredible pain. I don't think it was because I wasn't prepared -- I normally have a very high pain tolerance, but precipitous contrax are generally acknowledged to be more like pitocin.
I don't suffer from birth-grief, but I wonder how much is that some women don't feel empowered by the experience and feel somehow inadequate or that something was missed or went wrong. Again, my experience influences my perception, but it was a basic question of how my body works. Nothing anybody could do about it. I'm guessing a fair % of c-sections go the same way.
I think it's a good idea to think about how you'll cope if things don't go as planned.
I think this would be the most helpful kind of birth plan. Maybe not to hand to the nurses, but so your partner can help you navigate the process as best you can.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
The attending that was there when I checked in for my induction with Will said, "Well, we'll let you try to do this vaginally, but you'll probably have a c-section." I knew I didn't want that doctor around, but other than that, I think I have the same sort of feeling HT does - I didn't feel like there is an ideal birth or birth experience for me. Lorne and I talked about what we'd do in certain scenarios both times, and practiced breathing techniques to get through contractions without meds, and practiced different birthing positions and such, but I didn't really sit down and think about how I wanted things to go. I didn't want a c-section for all the reasons Winged listed, but we talked with my OB about what scenarios would land us there and I felt pretty comfortable that my wants/needs regarding that were going to be met (except for that first *** doctor).
I don't know. I was pretty proud of myself at the end of the day after both births. I felt good about me when I finished. My empowering, pro-woman birth experience just involved sarcastic jokes with my husband, unnatural drugs, and The Three Amigos instead of a doula or hypnosis or a birth orgasm.
Jens, I wouldn't call myself super-educated, most of what I know comes from my interest in the historical aspects and the bits of studies that filter through to the press. I am also deeply skeptical of some claims of midwifery (and would/did still choose to use one).
The argument that makes the most sense to me in the "Business of Being Born" sense is that
1) US hospitals don't have a financial incentive to change, which is not the same as wanting to slice and dice b/c they're greedy.
Still it'd be nice if there were some incentive to change that affected their ability to operate.
2) Hospitals are under financial pressure via insurance & malpractice to not change.
To me this is where midwives exert a very healthy influence.
3) I don't know the calculations behind when c-sections are given, so I have lots of questions.
Is there a point where they know half of conditions that look like x will result in damage or death and half will result in unnecessary surgery? Does it go up from there? Does waiting increase likelihood of complications or that everything will work out?
Or are hospitals/obs going by "best practices" that are based mainly on tradition rather than evidence?
If it's a mixture and varies by region how the foff do I know what I'm getting when?
4)I think optimal birth experiences are possible and real, but that doesn't mean everyone gets them or, if they do, will have the same reaction. For some people the ideal birth might be a c-section because it will prevent worse outcomes. That's where the focus on a healthy mama and baby come in.
Pdxdria, I haven't had the opportunity to read the actual studies re: epidurals, just what has trickled to the press. My understanding was that the evidence was what was behind the switch to allowing earlier epidurals in the last decade. When I asked the labor nurse at the hospital that's what she confirmed, but I don't know if that info might be out of date or incomplete.
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
I hadn't really thought about this, but it would be true for me as well. My birth experience was actually wonderful, and I will definitely attempt to go med-free next time around as well. I have to keep reminding myself that it's not normal to be in the hospital for six hours total before the baby is born. I may want pain management if it's creeping into 10 hour territory. Who knows?