Homeless in laws still coming down for weekend

SnoopyLuv · October 2010

JoEsther:
OP, I've read most of this thread, and I'm really getting a sense of resistance coming from you. You say you don't want to pay for them, but how are you backing that up? No one can force you into paying for them unless they actively stick their hand in your wallet and pull out your money. And although the house foreclosure situation came damn close, emotional blackmail is something that you decide if you want to fall victim to or not. And that's what's going on here: emotional blackmail.
All you have to do is make things crystal clear to everyone involved (assuming your DH is on the same page as you are here): if they come out for the shower, you aren't going to give them one penny over the hotel room itself (nothing else in the room, either). If they say that they can't get home, then ask them if the trip is worth it to them, because they can't stay with you. Set those boundaries, make things clear. Because right now, they're behaving the way they are because you're letting them.
You might end up looking like the "bad guy" and you know what? That's okay. You're looking after your home, your family, and if they have a problem with that, it's their problem, not yours and your H's. It's not your job to police them in re your BIL either - if they're stealing his paycheck, it's up to him to act, not you. I get that you're worried about him, but he's 18 and an adult and he'll take care of himself. If you keep worrying about him, he's going to end up like your ILs, thinking that you and DH will take care of him when he's stuck. And that's not healthy.
I know it's going to be hard, I would never argue that. But I think that if you do it, you'll realize that it's worth it in the end.

Thank you for this, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write this. I am resistant to be what DH considers "callous" to them, he always accuses me of being cold and not having a heart towards them. I feel guilted into being nice to them. We are being "blackmailed" so to speak. We just want to be good people but we can't be responsible for them. We know that but it's hard to act on it. Regarding BIL, I think DH feels guilty that he hasn't been there more for him because of the age difference (11 yrs) and partly feels responsible for helping him be an adult. Unfortunately you're right, he thinks we'll always come to the rescue.

You all are all correct in that we're going to have to speak with them tonight, set clear expectations as far as visiting, dinners out and money and leave it at that. I will just have to try and make it through the 4 hours of my shower with her in the same room.

ReturnOfKuus · October 2010

Why do you feel guilty for not being nice to mooches and thieves? Have you tried just admitting to your husband that no, you don't have a heart toward people who mooch and steal, and you refuse to give them any more money or try in any way to win their approval? It sounds like you are afraid to take a hard line with your husband and admit what you really feel, just as much as he's afraid of doing the same with his parents. Change has to start somewhere, and it's clearly not going to be with him.

doubleu · October 2010

ridesbuttons:

If you don't have the money to pay for the shower visit, there is not much to phrase. You say: MIL, you are welcome to come and visit and be a part of the shower, but we simply don't have any extra funds to pay for your gas or accomodations.

I think it would be good for your DH to call his parents this week and tell them that you and him cannot afford to give them any money anymore, and for them to not come to the shower if they think they might not have enough money to return (gas/tolls). You are giving them fair warning.

If his parents do come to you shower, and then ask for gas and toll money, you need to tell them, "No, we discussed this before you came to visit us. You willingly put yourselves in this situation. You shouldn't have come down here if you didn't have money to return."

You are in a tough spot because of your DH's brother. How old is he? Is another relative willing to take him in until he graduates high school? If DH's brother wasn't living with them, it would be easier to cut off ties with DH's parents. If my parents were fraudulently opening accounts in my name and potentially ruining my credit, I'd cut them out of my lives too because they sure don't know the concept of love and respect (and boundaries), oh and the law...

doubleu · October 2010

SnoopyLuv:
JoEsther:

OP, I've read most of this thread, and I'm really getting a sense of resistance coming from you. You say you don't want to pay for them, but how are you backing that up? No one can force you into paying for them unless they actively stick their hand in your wallet and pull out your money. And although the house foreclosure situation came damn close, emotional blackmail is something that you decide if you want to fall victim to or not. And that's what's going on here: emotional blackmail.

All you have to do is make things crystal clear to everyone involved (assuming your DH is on the same page as you are here): if they come out for the shower, you aren't going to give them one penny over the hotel room itself (nothing else in the room, either). If they say that they can't get home, then ask them if the trip is worth it to them, because they can't stay with you. Set those boundaries, make things clear. Because right now, they're behaving the way they are because you're letting them.

You might end up looking like the "bad guy" and you know what? That's okay. You're looking after your home, your family, and if they have a problem with that, it's their problem, not yours and your H's. It's not your job to police them in re your BIL either - if they're stealing his paycheck, it's up to him to act, not you. I get that you're worried about him, but he's 18 and an adult and he'll take care of himself. If you keep worrying about him, he's going to end up like your ILs, thinking that you and DH will take care of him when he's stuck. And that's not healthy.

I know it's going to be hard, I would never argue that. But I think that if you do it, you'll realize that it's worth it in the end.

Thank you for this, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write this. I am resistant to be what DH considers "callous" to them, he always accuses me of being cold and not having a heart towards them. I feel guilted into being nice to them. We are being "blackmailed" so to speak. We just want to be good people but we can't be responsible for them. We know that but it's hard to act on it. Regarding BIL, I think DH feels guilty that he hasn't been there more for him because of the age difference (11 yrs) and partly feels responsible for helping him be an adult. Unfortunately you're right, he thinks we'll always come to the rescue.

You all are all correct in that we're going to have to speak with them tonight, set clear expectations as far as visiting, dinners out and money and leave it at that. I will just have to try and make it through the 4 hours of my shower with her in the same room.

Tell your husband:

It's called "tough love". You're enabling his parents to continue to take advantage of you. Giving them money on a whim whenever they need it is just prolonging their problems and further deteriorating their relationships with others. Setting boundaries is healthy. Your DH's idea of "help" and "heart" for his parents is not healthy and could just continue forming a wedge between you and him. # 1 you and your DH need to get on the same page and see eye to eye, or you might discover years down the road that he decided to start mailing them money weekly without your consent...or, he might not send them money but might start to resent you or blame you for his parents further turmoil. Giving his parents money here or there is just a band-aide and he'd be foolish to think he has the power to change their ways.

JoEsther · October 2010

SnoopyLuv:
Thank you for this, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write this. I am resistant to be what DH considers "callous" to them, he always accuses me of being cold and not having a heart towards them. I feel guilted into being nice to them. We are being "blackmailed" so to speak. We just want to be good people but we can't be responsible for them. We know that but it's hard to act on it. Regarding BIL, I think DH feels guilty that he hasn't been there more for him because of the age difference (11 yrs) and partly feels responsible for helping him be an adult. Unfortunately you're right, he thinks we'll always come to the rescue.
You all are all correct in that we're going to have to speak with them tonight, set clear expectations as far as visiting, dinners out and money and leave it at that. I will just have to try and make it through the 4 hours of my shower with her in the same room.

Here's the thing: by showing them that they have to be responsible for their own lives, you are being good people. Good people aren't meant to be suckers. Good people are people who help when needed, but encourage those they are helping to learn to help themselves!

Let me ask you this: you're going to have a child, right? So are you going to raise that child to be strong, independent, able, or are you going to teach them that you'll always be there for them, no matter what they do, and that they can live at home till they're 30, sitting on the sofa in front of the boob tube? I think you'd want better for your child than to be a lazy layabout, and it's got nothing to do with guilt - it has to do with enabling. It's the same thing. And just like your child will likely have tantrums and fits when they don't get their way, your MIL is doing the same thing. I hope you aren't going to be the kind of parent who gives your child whatever they're crying for in order to shut them up and keep the peace. This is the same kind of thing.

Good luck!!

Mrs._H. · October 2010

Sorry, I haven't taken the time read all of the replies so I don't know if you've added additional info/answered questions. But it sounds to me like you guys want to cut them out because they're not good with money and ask you for money. They are your H's parents and I'm assuming your H turned out okay so they must have some redeeming qualities. Seems like all you care about is money.

ReturnOfKuus · October 2010

You didn't think it was a good idea to read the whole thread before responding this way? I'm just baffled at the logic that leads to the conclusion that it's a great idea to overlook all the relevant information that's right there for you, jump to what appears to be an irrational conclusion even from the limits of the original post, and then put this asininity on the internet for the whole world to see. What on earth are you thinking, Mrs_H?

margaritagirl · October 2010

JoEsther:
SnoopyLuv:
Thank you for this, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write this. I am resistant to be what DH considers "callous" to them, he always accuses me of being cold and not having a heart towards them. I feel guilted into being nice to them. We are being "blackmailed" so to speak. We just want to be good people but we can't be responsible for them. We know that but it's hard to act on it. Regarding BIL, I think DH feels guilty that he hasn't been there more for him because of the age difference (11 yrs) and partly feels responsible for helping him be an adult. Unfortunately you're right, he thinks we'll always come to the rescue.
You all are all correct in that we're going to have to speak with them tonight, set clear expectations as far as visiting, dinners out and money and leave it at that. I will just have to try and make it through the 4 hours of my shower with her in the same room.
Here's the thing: by showing them that they have to be responsible for their own lives, you are being good people. Good people aren't meant to be suckers. Good people are people who help when needed, but encourage those they are helping to learn to help themselves!
Let me ask you this: you're going to have a child, right? So are you going to raise that child to be strong, independent, able, or are you going to teach them that you'll always be there for them, no matter what they do, and that they can live at home till they're 30, sitting on the sofa in front of the boob tube? I think you'd want better for your child than to be a lazy layabout, and it's got nothing to do with guilt - it has to do with enabling. It's the same thing. And just like your child will likely have tantrums and fits when they don't get their way, your MIL is doing the same thing. I hope you aren't going to be the kind of parent who gives your child whatever they're crying for in order to shut them up and keep the peace. This is the same kind of thing.
Good luck!!

This!

Good Luck to you, OP.

rw555 · October 2010

Lurker here:

Couldn't help but notice that the reason for this visit is your baby shower: i.e., in about 7 weeks, if your ILs try to beg or mooch or outright steal money from you guys, they'll no longer just be taking it from you and your H --- they'll be taking it right out of your child's mouth.

If you put it to your H that way, would that change his mind at all?

Your LO comes first now, period. He needs to realize that means, yes, above his parents, and above his brother. If being new parents doesn't help you both to get on the same page with this absurd situation, I'm not sure what will. GL.

Mrs._H. · October 2010

ReturnOfKuus:
You didn't think it was a good idea to read the whole thread before responding this way? I'm just baffled at the logic that leads to the conclusion that it's a great idea to overlook all the relevant information that's right there for you, jump to what appears to be an irrational conclusion even from the limits of the original post, and then put this asininity on the internet for the whole world to see. What on earth are you thinking, Mrs_H?

Okay, so, I shot myself in the foot here when I made a rash decision to post based solely on the info in the OP. I was on my way out the door and instead of reading all of the information, as it was quite lengthy, I chose to post my initial reaction to the OP. It was just my initial impression and I prefaced it as such...she seemed to be overly concerned about money and came off a little "pretty pretty princess" to me. I can see now that this is not the case. I apologize if I offended anyone.

JoEsther · October 2010

Mrs._H.:
ReturnOfKuus:
You didn't think it was a good idea to read the whole thread before responding this way? I'm just baffled at the logic that leads to the conclusion that it's a great idea to overlook all the relevant information that's right there for you, jump to what appears to be an irrational conclusion even from the limits of the original post, and then put this asininity on the internet for the whole world to see. What on earth are you thinking, Mrs_H?

Okay, so, I shot myself in the foot here when I made a rash decision to post based solely on the info in the OP. I was on my way out the door and instead of reading all of the information, as it was quite lengthy, I chose to post my initial reaction to the OP. It was just my initial impression and I prefaced it as such...she seemed to be overly concerned about money and came off a little "pretty pretty princess" to me. I can see now that this is not the case. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Usually (not always, unfortunately...), when a post has this many replies, the OP has at some point come back and answered questions/provided more information. I'm sure you know this. I saw your comment and wanted to say something, but I figured you did it with good intentions and given your reply to Kuus, I'm highly doubtful you'll do it again any time soon.

I admire that you came back and admitted to your mistake. A lot of people wouldn't have done that (would rather ignore and move on) and I believe that owning one's mistakes is a sign of maturity. So it was good to see.

srgw · October 2010

srgw:
I am sorry you are going through this.
That being said, your DH needs to stop enabling. He needs to stop the cash handouts. You need to be a united front and tell them no.
My ILs are in major debt (medical bills) and this is after they live month to month cause they don't know how to save or spend wisely. H & I feel bad but helping them would hurt us financially. So we don't.

SnoopyLuv:

Do you still have any sort of relationship with them?

We have a good relationship with them actually. We just never talk about money. They've only approached us about money once and it had to do with a school loan they took out for my H that he'd promised to pay back but had forgotten about. So we took it over. The $5,000 debt we took over won't even make a dent in my ILs debt though. They live in a different state then us too.

ReturnOfKuus · October 2010

*nod of satisfaction*

luckycooky · October 2010

Lurker jumping in:

Since the birth of DD 5 months ago, we have pretty much cut all ties to MIL. She has been deceitful, abusive, and manipulative for 20+ years. Without going into all details, she is a terrible person. MIL was raised in a home where money = power. If I give you money, I have control over you.

DH put up wiith her behavior for so long because he wanted to try to make things work. He had pressure from FIL's family (they were divorced) and he was a young boy who wanted a mother when all of this started. After a while, he had been hurt so many times he started feeling like there was no point in fighting. The damage was done so what's a little more salt in the wound, so to speak.

ETA: If you would like details of how we handled certain situations/conversations, you can PM me.

He is the first to tell you he had a miserable childhood. What changed for him? Our daughter. He took one look at her and decided he wanted better for our daughter than the life he had. When MIL started with her usual antics the week our daughter was born, we both snapped at her. She has tried everything she can think of to get back into our lives but it has not worked and will not work. He now understands that being the better person means not enabling this destructive behavior. She throws temper tantrums, she plays on his emotions, she even called with a fake family emergency to try to get us to bring DD to her. We didn't bite.

It is hard. Who wants to admit that their parents are terrible people? But I will say it again and again - being the better person sometimes mean not enabling destructive behavior. Keep going to the counselor because your H needs to see that being the "good son" can mean helping ILs to be more responsible. It is giving them what they truly need rather than what they want.

There are many of DH's family members that are upset with us. But they have slowly begun to realize what we are doing it and why we are doing it and have gained a new respect for us. And at the end of the day, they cannot blame us for trying to provide our daughter with a good life.

*lily*721 · October 2010

SnoopyLuv:
Mrs.Bones:

I can't say "I know what you're going through" b/c I don't. But, my sister and BIL are your IL's. And my parents are you and your DH.

They have a 3 year old and don't handle money well at all. BIL couldn't hold a job and sister makes crap. They couldn't pay bills, couldn't buy food, etc. My parents ended up paying for groceries, rent, gas, daycare, buying sister EVERYSINGLEFUCKING baby supply she needed b/c they would call and say "We cant' afford ABC this month." And my parents didn't want their daughter or their grandson to go hungry or homeless...or ride around on bald tires. Or not have a winter coat. Or not have shoes that fit. On and on and on.

Sister asked me for money ONCE. I told her flat out "nope. not gonna happen" and she never asked again.

But I saw the emotional toll it took (and still takes) on my parents. FINALLY, nearly 10 years later, my parents have begun to extract themselves financially. First, they told sister "We'll pay for rent or daycare. You decide. And no extras (gas, food, etc)." And she said okay. Then they cut the amount and said "We will give you $X per month. No more." Now they are reducing that.

All told, they've probably given BIL and sister about $100K in 10 years (everything from $1250/month rent, $900/month daycare, clothes, food, gas, extras such as classes for BIL b/c he swore he wanted to be a realtor or a resume workshop for BIL b/c he swore he wasn't getting a job b/c his resume sucked...)

It hurts them SO much to see their daughter and grandson go through this. But it's NOT THEIR PROBLEM TO FIX. It took years of therapy for them to get to this point. It's not easy, and it hurts to say no, but it's a necessity.

Thank you for being compassionate and understanding the emotional piece of this. I tend to be the "colder" one out of DH and I but it still kills me to see people go through this, no matter the reason.

We have a similar situation. My brother is a hot mess but no child (at this point, thank God). BIL, his wife, and child have been permanently supported by MIL for years. Now they have another (planned) child on the way. MIL is furious and BIL and wife are oblivious. BIL is actually angry that he has to work for FI (he resents being away from his family -- yet whenever I am there, he is always off doing something else). I told FI that if BIL doesn't see the value in insurance for his pregnant wife and small child, we can't force it on him.

After being asked for money 4 times in 4 months, I told FI to tell BIL to stop asking. The answer will always be no. We have our own family and he is a poor investment.

*lily*721 · October 2010

SnoopyLuv:
JoEsther:

Thank you for this, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write this. I am resistant to be what DH considers "callous" to them, he always accuses me of being cold and not having a heart towards them. I feel guilted into being nice to them. We are being "blackmailed" so to speak. We just want to be good people but we can't be responsible for them. We know that but it's hard to act on it. Regarding BIL, I think DH feels guilty that he hasn't been there more for him because of the age difference (11 yrs) and partly feels responsible for helping him be an adult. Unfortunately you're right, he thinks we'll always come to the rescue.

You all are all correct in that we're going to have to speak with them tonight, set clear expectations as far as visiting, dinners out and money and leave it at that. I will just have to try and make it through the 4 hours of my shower with her in the same room.

FI says this to me too. He says "family takes care of family" -- which I agree with to a point. You can't force it on someone. We are not responsibly for BIL's poor decisions. We are not responsible for caring for their daughter -- especially when he feels that he doesn't need any help. FI feels guilty because he is the older brother and BIL always says he wasn't given the same options in life that FI was given. Not true. FI chose to work hard and BIL chose to take the quick roads.

RiRi157 · October 2010

If the house was in your Hs name than you could have had them evicted the same way their last landlord did. You could have sold that house if it was only in Hs name. If the law in NY was for the tenant than your inlaws would not be homeless.

H needs counseling to get rid of his parents?, At the end of the day they are still his parents and it might be easy for you to kick them to the curb its not easy for him. I find it hard to believe that a counselor would tell him to disown his parents. Maybe just wishful thinking on your part.

Would you kick YOUR parents to the curb if this was happening to them.

There is a whole lot more to this story.

Homeless in laws still coming down for weekend

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