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Holiday drama (It got kind of long, sorry)
My family lives in Boston (I live in OH) and my ILs live a 3 hour car drive away. Typically, we see DH's family every 3 - 6 weeks for Friday night - Sunday afternoon. Since we've started dating, we've only been back to see my family twice and they came out here once (for our wedding). We've spent every major holiday with DH's family and we drive back for the weekend every time someone has a birthday. Sometimes we spend more than a week there, like last Christmas.
Well, this year, I decided we need to see my family. We're going to stay at a place my whole (extended) family rents out for Thanksgiving from Wed - Sat.
But -- I also want to spend Christmas with DH. We are planning to have kids soon and I think it's important that we start our own traditions and things together before we have kids so they become a family tradition, not just something we started for the kids. I want to cook Christmas dinner. I want to pick out Christmas music. I want to sit under my tree and open presents. I want us to be our family, alone, during our first Christmas as a married couple.
DH wants to spend it with his family. MIL is pissed beyond words and is not accepting this at all. She's using all of her motherly guilting power on DH. I know we really should be spliting up the holidays, but we have spent ALL of the holidays with his family and we see them all the time. I don't see what the big deal is if we just go see them the day after Christmas or for New Years. MIL says it's not right that we aren't spending either holiday with her and that I'm being unfair and then had a serious talk with DH about whether or not I'm making him feel like he should kill himself... I think this is just ludicrous and she shouldn't get any say in how we spend our holidays, but, unfortunately, DH agrees with her. Having Christmas with us is not an option, either because, frankly, we don't have enough room for the whole family and she doesn't want to come here anyway because she "always cooks on Christmas" and I don't have "any of her decorations or presents or anything else [she] needs".
I don't know what to do, this is really important to me and I want to just stand my ground and tell them flat out that we have to draw a line somewhere but I do feel bad that we won't be there for Thanksgiving either. WWYD? Should I give in or go with what's important to me?
Re: Holiday drama (It got kind of long, sorry)
Your problem is that your DH thinks that making his mom happy is more important than making his wife happy.
Her "my way or nothing" attitude is really off-putting. I think it's enough that you volunteered to host for Christmas. The fact that a holiday with you isn't "good enough" for your MIL is on her.
I think you are being more than reasonable. Unfortunately, you don't have to convince ME, you have to convince your dh! I really don't have any advice other than to stand your ground, but offer to spend some time in between Christmas and New Year's with his family.
I also think that the week long trips and the long-weekend trips are getting to you. It's ok to tell your H that you will not be attending as many of these trips in the future. You have better ways to spend your weekends.
I can see how for your MIL going from, "we always see you for every major holiday, " to, "we won't see you for either of the biggest holidays" this year, is quite a turn around. I can see how she likes things as they are and wants to get her own way.
The thing is, it doesn't matter what you MIL thinks, it matters what you and DH think.
When you say he, "agrees" with her, does that mean he wants to see his family for at least one of the holidays or does it mean he doesn't want to piss hi Mum off?
The bottom line is that you and DH need to work out between you how you want to deal with holidays.
You can do Thanksgiving with one set and Christmas the other, and then switch next year. You can choose to do your own thing for one of the holidays. You can invite people to your house, and if they accept or decline is entirely up to them. There are any number of options.
So what you do is, decide with DH, what is right for the two of you, and then let everyone know what you will be doing. You're not asking their permission, you're not apologising, or offering up the subject for debate. You are simply informing them so they know who they are cooking for.
First, you cannot hold the fact that you have only seen your family twice in the last so many years OR have not done a major holiday with them against HIS family. That was your choice (especially when you were only dating) and no one put a gun to your head.
Nor can you hold the fact that you visit his family every 3-6 weeks against them at the holidays. Again, your choice to go. AND holidays are different than the weekend visit.
Second, while I get wanting to create new traditions or not go running all over creation on the actual holiday (with kids it sucks), the way you are going about it THIS year is pretty harsh. All of sudden your Inlaws don't get to see you on either major holiday but you will make room to see yours, something you normally do not do. Its a pretty sharp slap in the face - even though you have valid reasons.
MY suggestion, would be to start alternating T-day and the weekend before Christmas between the two families. That way you get to see your family each year (again, you gave a very clear tacit agreement that this was good for you by doing it all these years), he gets to see his family each year but you are home on Christmas Eve and Day.
Like so many other FM issues, this is a DH problem. Your MIL can fuss and fart around guilt but these two lines say it all-
DH wants to spend it with his family.
I think this is just ludicrous and she shouldn't get any say in how we spend our holidays, but, unfortunately, DH agrees with her.
He doesn't agree with you. It's not about what your MIL wants, it's about what your DH wants. He wants to spend Christmas with his family.
If he's used to a big family get together with his mom's cooking and the decorations/traditions he grew up with. The intimate first Christmas alone where you go out of your way to "create" something different is going to feel a little hollow and sad for him. If it's really that important to you to stand your ground instead of compromising, you risk playing your hand as the selfish and immature girl your MIL thinks you are.
This... I think you should suck it up and go to DH's family for Christmas and make a plan for all future holidays starting next year. They are used to you being there every holiday. You cant expect them to accept they now wont see you for the 2 biggest holidays all at once.
Your DH is being a baby. I mean it. And like the others have said, he's putting Mommy's needs before his wife's.
Put it back on him "If this situation was reversed, and it was your family we never spent holidays with, would that be okay with you? Would it be okay if I just told you to deal or we split up for the holidays?"
If the answer is no, you have a reasonable DH, and take the discussion from there. If worst comes to worst, print out your posts and show him the responses so he can see from 3rd parties how unreasonable he is being.
These two statements stuck out as neon blinking lights to me. You are acting just like his mother by making a decision that needed to be made by the two of you since you are in a partnership. That being said, your MIL has power over your DH because he lets her. You do not have a MIL problem - you have a DH problem.
Does DH agree with his mom because she said so or does he agree with her because he really wants to spend Christmas with his family?
My DH and I decided to split holidays until we had kids and then alternate Thanksgiving and stay home for Christmas. Lucky for me, this year is Thanksgiving with his family but I am unable to travel, and we will have a baby by Christmas! My family is in town, so I get a win-win this year. Lucky for him, he prefers spending holidays with my family over his.
My suggestion is suck up Christmas this year and go see them or promise to spend Thanksgiving with them next year. As much as you dislike his family, you are part of the family now and should play nice.
Obviously, you aren't okay with the amount of time you've been spending with his family and the way you've divided holiday time. The way you're choosing to handle this, though, isn't the most productive way you could go about it, especially since it sounds like you haven't said anything about it before now!
Drop your MIL from the equation. Yes, she's trying to guilt him, and yes, she wants things her way, and yes, she was out of line to say your hosting Christmas would be inadequate, but just file all that under "future business" for now. Make this about what you and your husband want and what's best for your family (meaning the two of you!)
From your post, it's not clear what he really wants. Does he want to spend Christmas with his family, having their traditional celebration? Or does he just want to avoid a showdown with his mother and feel he has to go to keep the peace?
If it's the former, you should find a way to honor that and find a compromise that suits both of you. Maybe your "just the two of you" celebration is the week before Christmas, or a New Year's Eve at a bed and breakfast, and you start alternating between families next year.
If it's the latter, then you two need to have a serious conversation about why he's putting his mother's desires above his wife's.
Once you've come to a decision, tell your families what you've decided...after the holidays. Right now, people are going to be way too emotional about this issue to have a rational conversation.
I don't think you are being unreasonable. But you're not married to me - you have to work this out with your DH.
I think you and your DH need to come up with a long-term plan of what will work for the two of you and your growing family. Not just this year, but every year going forward. It might be easy to come up with a plan that is "fair" if you are talking about year-by-year, vs. what will happen this year. Of course, circumstances might change (one family member might be sick, you might not be able to travel b/c of pregnancy), but it might be easier to say "I'd rather stay at home for one holiday, and then only travel to see ONE family, mine or yours, during the other holiday. Of course, anyone who wants to visit US during our home holiday is welcome." Or whatever. If your DH stands firm that only his mom's Christmas goose and decorations will do, you have a serious problem. Also, make sure that your MILs opinion do not come into play, not even "my mom will be so hurt if we skip Christmas." Tell him that your family is hurt, too, but they manage to survive.
And ditto the poster who said the fact that you visit your ILS so often is your choice. It's not fair for you to hold that against them over the holidays.
I don't think you have a MIL problem or a DH problem; I think you have a YOU problem. It sounds like you decided that you should have your own holiday without consulting your DH or taking into account his feelings. If he really wants to spend Christmas with his family and you force him to stay home, you'll probably have a Grinch on your hands who'd rather be somewhere else. If you force this on him, it won't be the magical time you're imagining. Don't ruin your first Christmas together as a married couple by causing this drama.
Do you realize that you have created a situation where this decision has your husband and his mother on one side .. and you on the other? That you have created a situation that forces winners and loosers?
Do you want your husband to loose and to have to spend Christmas with you, if he doesn't want to? Is that really the Christmas tradition you want to create?
Do you want to loose and feel like your MIL "won" in a showdown between you and her, that her son took her side, and if she acts like a lunatic she'll get her way in the future?
You have to do damage control RIGHT NOW. You have mishandled this. This needed to be a decision you BOTH wanted to do and presented to both sides of the family as a united front. And that is HARD. It's really hard becuase you're both being pulled in different directions and both want to create new traditions together.
Go back to your husband, admit your mistake and start talking again (or start talking for the first time if you made this decision by yourself and just told him). Start from scratch, say what your heart desires, listen to him, get creative with options and expect that you will come up with a plan you can both live with and enjoy. THAT is the new holiday tradition you want to create.
I would like to know-
Is your DH open to alternating holidays? ANd what is his take on when you have kids? Is he cool w/ you all staying home once you have kids? Or even after kids, does he still want to go to his family?
I'd like to know this to really get a sense of how unreasonable he is.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
My DH would LOVE to spend every holiday alone at our house, cooking, all of that. I can't imagine not spending holidays with family, my family, his family, holidays aren't holidays without a house full of people to share it with. I understand that you want your own traditions, but maybe your DH can't imagine Christmas without watching football with his brother or doing something special with his mom....
DH and I have started our own tradition-- We open presents on Christmas Eve morning, I make breakfast and we spend time thats just ours. Sometimes he has to leave to go to work, sometimes we have to finish Christmas shopping, but we get some time alone. And we get two or three days of Christmas when its all said and done.
Talk to your DH. And quit being spoiled.
I don't think you're being a spoiled brat at all.
We were/are in a similar situation. DH's parents are divorced, and both live far away. My family is in town. Before we got married, I'd spend the holidays with my family and he'd spend with his. Since we got married, we decided to split the holidays. But, I did so with the intention that once we had our own children, we would be staying home for Christmas to start our own traditions. Part of the fun of christmas was decorating our tree, having santa come to our house, putting cookies on our mantle, sleeping in our beds, etc. I want that for my own child.
We had DS last year, and we stayed home for Christmas. What we're doing instead is inviting anyone who wants to come to spend Christmas with us, and visiting at other times.
I think maybe you should sit down and talk to your DH about this. I think you're in a tough spot now though. If you give in, MIL will think she has won and will act the same way the next time. If you stand your ground, you'll cause a lot of anger and resentment, and you don't even have the kids yet!
If I were in your situation, I'd go for Christmas this year, but I would be firm with your DH that once you have a child, you will remain at home for Christmas EVERY year. You are willing to alternate Thanksgiving each year between his family and yours. That's more than fair. And your DH should explain that to his mother, so that she is prepared when the time comes.
Oh, wow a lot of responses. Thanks, ladies!
DH doesn't like my family (and I can't honestly say that he doesn't have good reason. They've never done anything to him but I didn't have a great childhood and he doesn't like the things they did). The reason we haven't gone back for a major holiday before is because DH fought really hard, saying that holidays are supposed to be happy and should be spent with people who make us happy, etc etc. So I put my foot down for Thanksgiving now that we're married.
For Christmas, his reasoning is that partly that he is worried about his mom's feelings but mostly (he says) because he wants me to become part of his family. He and his parents say they want it to be like they gained a daughter, not that they lost their son. I tried to explain that we can be part of their family while maintaining our own family unit but he doesn't agree (neither does MIL, and she only feeds fuel on this fire). He says he likes his family traditions -- we talked about Christmas with kids and he agrees that we won't be spending it with his parents because of the inappropriate atmosphere (lots of beer and tobacco products, his brother and uncle go shooting in the yard, and some family members couldn't keep from cursing if their lives depended on it). But he says that since we don't have kids right now, we have all the more reason to enjoy Christmas with his family before we do have them. I think this is a rather ridiculous reason, since neither of us drink and he has asthma so the smoke does cause breathing problems for him, which his family ignores (though, to be fair, his parents don't smoke but they do allow it in their house knowing he has trouble breathing).
I know it would be a big adjustment for MIL, but to be honest, I don't give a da** because my life isn't going to be ruled by what she thinks is appropriate, especially when I disgaree with so many of her choices. My problem with her freaking out is that she's making DH feel bad and that is making it hard to have a reasonable conversation with him. He can't think about what's best for us when he pictures his mom alone on Christmas, crying -- an image she put in his mind, no less.
New Years, Easter, Mother's Day, and Father's Day are all big holidays for his family. Every gets together and has a big party, lots of traditions and whatnot. I told him we could stay with his family for those days but DH just says it's not the same because they're not as important to his mom. Gah, I don't know what to do. It seems like he really wants to stay with his family but doing it for his mother is such an unfair reason and as PP said, it seems like he wants to make her happy more than he wants to make me happy.
Etsy shop
Well, if he's willing to start your own traditions once you have kids, that is good.
However, a lot of what you wrote sits wrong w/ me. Your childhood isn't his concern. NOW, in the present, you want to see your family occasionally on the holidays. He needs to resepct that. It's not all about HIS family.
And all that hooey about gaining a DD but not losing a son? Give me a break. They all REALLY think that you oshould just drop your family? THey sound amazingly self-centered. THEY don't want to lose a son, but it's o.k. for your family to lose a daughter?
Nice double standard.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
OK so my take on it is MIL is a crybaby who thinks everything has to be her way all the time and H is a mama's boy who would rather appease her than you. Not right. Not right at all. ECB hit the nail on the head - it's NOT all about his family and H has to respect it. If MIL doesn't, oh well - that's her problem and she looks like a spoiled child if she throws a tantrum about it. You have to split the time; it's not fair otherwise.
I have to go with Illumine's suggestion on this one:
"MY suggestion, would be to start alternating T-day and the weekend before Christmas between the two families. That way you get to see your family each year (again, you gave a very clear tacit agreement that this was good for you by doing it all these years), he gets to see his family each year but you are home on Christmas Eve and Day."
I'm going to add- you're talking about kids. Please take this seriously- get this figured out before you have kids. All this "my MIL this" and "my MIL that" and "My DH agrees w/ her" - this will.not.end once you have kids, and quite honestly, will probably actually get worse.
So, if you can't find a comfortable solution that you can LIVE with, you need to seriously reconsider having kids w/ this guy, and probably reconsider if this is really the right guy fo ryou.
YOU should be his priority. Finding compromises that you both are comfortable with should be his priority. His mother should not be his priority.
Do not think "Oh, once we have kids, it will be fine". He does say he wants to start your own traditions once you have kids, and I don't necessarily think it's just words. But this whole issue goes past that. He will still want to go see HIS family after you all have done your small family thing. His family is still going ot think you all have to come to them.
Again- if you aren't happy w/ the status quo now, FIX IT before you have kids. If you don't, and if you aren't happy w/ the status quo, either leave him or if you have kids w/ him, suck it up and realize that it's a choice you are making.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
This is exactly how I feel about it! You have no idea how nice it is to hear someone else say this... they all look at me like I'm insane.
I agree with you, this is not something I want to deal with when there are kids in the picture. Our plan was to start trying next summer, but like I said before, his family isn't a safe place for children to be around and I do think he worries about pleasing his mom too much for him to make anything else a priority. I know I'm important to him -- but obviously not that important, and Oh God, this whole thing is such a mess.... How did I get this far into a relationship and not realize that his priority is (and likely always will be) his mother. How do you marry someone who doesn't put you first?
I feel like these are not questions someone should ask themselves this early in a marriage... we should still be in the honeymoon phase, right?
Sorry, I know I'm getting off topic and kind of freaking out.
Etsy shop
How long did you date before you got married?
As far as the 'honeymoon stage' that's a bunch of Hallmark crap. Things happen when they happen. I am surprised you didn't see this before you married him, but you're seeing it now, so don't ignore it because you think the first year is supposed to be all roses & romance.
You need to sit down with your H and really talk this through. This is about so much more than where you spend Christmas. He fully expects you to join his family and drop yours, that's beyond unfair. He is also more concerned with keeping his mother happy than his wife.
While I wouldn't be running to a lawyer quite yet, I wouldn't let this go either. It's time to really lay it all out there & let your H know that you can't have a successful marriage if he continues to put his mother ahead of you.
What are you going to do if he can't?
He's not going to be open to starting your own traditions when you have kids, he's just saying that to buy himself more holidays with mommy until that time comes. Don't you think your MIL is going to paint a picture of a poor, lonely grandma spending her grandchild's first Christmas away from her/him? And your dh just won't be able to break his mother's heart like that. You'll once again be the cruel DIL who wants to tear his family apart. He and his family sound like they're trying to brainwash you into thinking your family is horrible and they just want want to welcome you with open arms. Stand your ground. It makes it easier for him to manipulate the situation and get his way when he pretends that your family is not nice and that he's getting vindication for the bad childhood they gave you.
Some good advice I got early in my own marriage:
Start as you mean to go on.
DH and I spent our first Christmas together on our honeymoon. After that, we told our parents that we would have Christmas in our own home, and that anybody who wanted to come to us was welcome.
And yes, it was difficult at times for us to figure out what we wanted to keep and recreate from our families' traditions and what we wanted to establish as our own. It was different from what we'd both been used to. But we did it together, we worked it out, and now that we do have children, nobody questions or pressures us to haul them hither and yon for holidays!
If you establish now that you're spending Christmas with his family, it will not be easier to break away from that when you have your own children; it will be harder. Your MIL is possessive and territorial about her son and her daughter-in-law -- does your DH really think she'll be any less possessive and territorial when it comes to her grandchildren and where they're spending the holidays?
With Christmas falling on a Saturday this year, can you compromise by spending Christmas day in your home and going to see his family on Sunday?
DH doesn't like my family (and I can't honestly say that he doesn't have good reason. They've never done anything to him but I didn't have a great childhood and he doesn't like the things they did). The reason we haven't gone back for a major holiday before is because DH fought really hard, saying that holidays are supposed to be happy and should be spent with people who make us happy, etc etc.
It's not unreasonable for your DH to dislike your family even though they "never did anything to him." DH's stepmom was mean to DH and his siblings when he was growing up, and I hate that b^tch.
However....while Christmas eve with DH's drunk stepmom serving deli platters on paper plates was far fom "fun," it was important for DH to see his family, so I went.
Tell your DH that holidays are supposed to be happy, and being with his mom because he is upset that she might slit her wrists if you don't go DOESNT" MAKE YOU HAPPY.
You sound much like my SIL who basically wants everything her own way around the holidays and doesn't come to BIL (DH)side of the holidays. She had a big fight about it with DH's family one year. Our problem with it is that she wanted to be home with kids for christmas but she would always invite her family over but not IL's. She ended up getting her way, we never bother them about where they will spend the holidays, but she still gets talked badly about and we all think less of her for it. She will always get the eyeroll from the rest of us because of her unfairness and unreasonableness (new word).
I just can't wait for her son to grow up and do the same thing to her because I am a firm beleiver that Karma sucks. I can't imagine never seeing my adult kids/ grandkids at christmas or thanksgiving.
Also, remember, when you have kids that the memories you help create for them will be what they cherish. When I was a kid we went to Grandmas house for at least xmas or thanksgiving and I have wonderful memories of that being what xmas is all about.
Thanks, everyone.
We have been together for almost 3 years... 8 months of those we were engaged and we've been married for 2 months. In retrospect, I should have seen MIL planning the guilt for the holidays with her "Oh, holidays with MY mom were so fun we did this and this and this", but DH's grandma slipped into an unconscious state around the time this started so I figured she was just being sentimental.
He keeps saying that he has "such wonderful memories" of Christmas. I told him that he can have wonderful memories of spending Christmas with me and he says "Yes, I want you to be part of those memories and spend Christmas with my family and not taint those memories with guilt from MIL." and that if I didn't want to go to his parents' house then I didn't have to, he could go alone. Great way to spend our first Christmas.
Also, about the suicide thing -- his uncle killed himself. This happened before I knew DH but his family says it's because his wife berated him so much and was so controlling and rude. They told DH they were afraid the same thing was happening to him. He told me so I wouldn't feel like he was keeping stuff from me. This conversation was the result of a disagreement his family and I had about whether or not uninvited people would be allowed into the wedding and served food that would then be tacked onto our bill.
And yes, MIL will most definitely not be pleased about holidays if we have kids -- she toasted to them at our wedding. No joke.
Etsy shop
Why aren't you angrier that he cares more about being with his mommy than his wife?!?! I'd tell him to move back in with her .
You keep talking about how things will change once you have kids- it's not going to happen. If he's not willing to change or compromise now, he won't be then either. He will insist on either taking the kids with him or leaving all of you so he can be with his mommy.
I am furious about it, I just don't know what to do. He doesn't see it as a problem and I don't know if where we spend Christmas is worth getting divorced over. We've been fighting about this almost non-stop for the past few days and we are getting nowhere. I keep trying to tell him that's it's a symptom of a bigger problem but he doesn't see it that way. I don't know. This is such a mess.
Etsy shop