Minneapolis/St. Paul Nesties
jack | born 9.13.12 at 40w4d | 9 lbs 12 oz | 23 in
my puppy loves - chloe & jenson
pregnancy blog | chart
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Discuss: Airport Security, Body Scanners, Grope/Pat-Downs..
Anyone care to discuss the new airport security measures? Do you feel they make us more or less safe? Do you feel comfortable with the body scanners that are starting to show up at airports? Would you rather deal with the grope/pat down than go through the scanner? Thoughts in general?
Has anyone gone through an airport with the new body scanner?
jack | born 9.13.12 at 40w4d | 9 lbs 12 oz | 23 in
my puppy loves - chloe & jenson
pregnancy blog | chart
Re: Discuss: Airport Security, Body Scanners, Grope/Pat-Downs..
I was wondering when there would be a post about this here.
I am personally not a fan of of either the scanners or the new pat down procedures. The images have already been shown to be stored and leaked, and I don't want someone feeling me up either. Not to mention the pilots and flight attendants are coming out against it along with other experts saying that they just aren't effective.
The last time I flew was several years ago and I had to step into the glass box, put my shoes on the scanner thing, had my bags searched because they couldn't recognize a Native American dreamcatcher on the x-ray machine, and I got a non-invasive pat down while under the guard of a guy carrying an uzi (true story, it was at Rapid City Regional Airport which is next to the air base where I grew up, so military personnel presence isn't uncommon). That was enough.
Fortunately, I don't fly much. I'll be happy to avoid flying altogether until they change the policy to something that makes sense.
I'd be very much against any sort of pat down or body scan because I don't really feel that it solves the problem.
Case in point...
Last year I flew (while Pregnant for a job interview) to Denver, I carried everything I'd need on as it was an out and back trip. I just put everything in a backpack. Flew out of MSP early in the morning, got through security completely normally, no bag search, nothing...got to Denver did my interview got back to the airport and was going through security when they pulled me aside for a bag search...They found a 2 1/2 inch serated pocket knife in the bottom of my bag that I DIDN"T even know was there...my best guess is that it got left in there from a camping trip and somehow got buried in the folds of the bag such that MSP didn't notice it.
You know what they did??? They told me they had to confiscate it or I had to go back through security and ship it to myself...I chucked it. It is just so hit or miss to begin with what is the body scan going to find if they can't even find it in the regular old x-ray scanner???
Bleck. I'm actually getting nervous about flying in MARCH now because of this.
I'm not convinced those machines are yet safe nor do I want to have the pat down. Mostly I don't want the pat down becuase i'm not convinced the people doing it are capable of being professional - the TSA isn't exactly an employer of choice for most people.
I really hope they get this figured out before I fly in March...
A pilot friend (the boyfriend of a friend of mine) told us that most flights have cargo on board that doesn't go through screening. Similar to the toner cartridge bombs from a few weeks ago, the cargo puts people in a position to be in greater danger than the other passengers, IMO.
I was reading a sensationalist post on Gizmodo about this topic, and I agree with the author's (sensationalist) view that we don't know the safety of these scanners. I avoid xrays unless I need to have them done, they cover body parts not being xrayed, why would I want to walk through one of these machines? Plus - yes, images have been released into the public that are supposedly secure and erased immediately.
PLUS - if you wanted to get something in the plane that bad... put it in your body cavaties. I'm sorry, but if a terrorist is going to commit a suicide bombing of an airplane, I doubt they are worried about the temporary discomfort of an explosive butt plug.
jack | born 9.13.12 at 40w4d | 9 lbs 12 oz | 23 in
my puppy loves - chloe & jenson
pregnancy blog | chart
They didn't seem to be using them at MSP when we were there a few weeks ago, but they may just be using them for the random extra security screenings.
I have had to use the body scanner on one occasion, and it was on a flight back in June from Amsterdam to Detroit. I believe it was the same flight route that had the shoe bomber incident or something, so that flight in particular had advanced screening at the gate as well as extended background checks and questioning of every single passenger on the plane.
I did feel that the body scanner was a little intrusive. It's kind of awkward because after you get scanned, a sizable image came up on the computer screen that was pretty revealing. I mean, it might as well have been a nude picture of me without the details. And they didn't have any privacy shields on the monitors, so anyone who was on the other side of the scanner could see. Then even after the scan they patted everyone down. But it wasn't just a pat down like normal... I definitely felt a little violated, there seemed to be a little more groping than usual. I was a little confused as to why they did the pat downs as well, as there was absolutely nothing that showed up strange on the image... What's the point of having the scanners if they have to do the pat downs as well?
While I can understand why people are upset about it (invsaion of privacy, personal space, necessity, safety, etc), I personally am not too worked up about it . . . but I'm like that for a lot of new flying restrictions and procedures. There just isn't much you can do to fight it and raising a ruckus certainly isn't going to make things better.
I flew just a few days after the underwear bomber incident - from London to Msp - on Delta. We had to stand in line at our gate for over an hour - and go through multiple searches. No only did everyone get a thorough pat down but our cases, purses and bags were all opened, unpacked, checked and repacked - with all the other passengers standing around watching. It was a massive hassel and I will admit I was frustrated. But did I huff and puff and make a scene or protest? No - what good would that have brought about?
I'm sure those checking out bags were none too thrilled to be going through my dirty socks while I stood there watching. I'm just as sure that those sitting in another room viewing the full body scans are doing their jobs and not getting their jollies off. And those doing the full pat downs and cringing inside as they trace the contours of our bodies. Very few people would happily intrude on someone's privacy in such ways - but they will do so in the name of safety.
It's an unfortunate result of our current reality. But if it is necessary to keep us safe - necessary to be fair to all passengers and not single out those of certain racial or ethnic backgrounds, then I am OK with it. The moment that the TSA starts making exceptions or letting the rules slide for certain people is the moment that the terrorists jump through that loophole.
If I am going to get upset at the airlines it will be because ticket prices thave tripled in the past six years and yet baggage restrictions have tightened to the point that if my checked bag is one pound over, I have to pay $50. Add to that insult the fact that I now have to pay for food, headphones, pillows . . . . ummm, complete BS!
I'll happily get upset over being nickel and dimed, but getting upset over attempts to keep me safe? No, I don't waste the energy.
If I could drive to Ireland... I would.
FYI if you want to write congress, here is a link from the ACLU:
https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&id=1009&page=UserAction
I'm flying to FL in two weeks. I'm not that nervous about it.
I don't think it's very effective; like Anita said I'm sure cargo and other things about the plane pose more of a threat. But I understand that they have to *try* to make things safer. And the whole system is one big bureaucratic mess that it's taken them 9 years just to get this in place. The biggest security advance they had before this was putting our chapstick in little plastic baggies.
I'm sure once these prove ineffective (and they will, because someone who wants to create violence will always find a way) and the outrage is big enough, they will ditch this idea and move on to something else. But it will probably take another 10 years.
Judging
They are not sure about the safety for passengers which scares me. The scans will be able to show if you are wearing a tampon, have implants or anything else in your body. Something I am pretty sure they do not need to know if I am going to fly.
Also- Israel doesn't even use this invasive of security measures. They are considered one of the "best" when it comes to airport security.
I fly in Janurary. I hope things get hashed out before I have to deal with with this at the airport. I will opt of of the body scan, it is sad my option is then to get sexually assulated by TSA.
I am INCREDIBLY worked up about this. I think it's WRONG, ineffective, dangerous in terms of health, and I think it's a 4th amendment violation.
I suggest everyone check out http://wewontfly.com
ETA: and when I fly next week for Thanksgiving, and when I fly in December to Italy, I WILL be opting out of the body scanners. I can't do anything about the assaultive pat down, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let them expose DH & me to extra radiation. We'd like to have a baby someday, and we'd also like to not get cancer.
I'm actually curious to see what it's like in the European countries we fly through. I know in Germany people came in to the airport naked to protest the scanners. I should probably find out whether we have the same right to opt out in other countries...
They are, at least some of them. http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3610512
Normally I agree with Razamataz about everything... but on this issue, we couldn't be more different!
I don't think that security measures have anything to do with making people safe. It has everything to do with liabilities, capital equipment costs, and the illusion of protecting the public. Call me a cynic I suppose, but I don't think that the airlines have the customer's best interest in mind. I honestly think the whole security procedures and implementation are a huge government fail. If this was about keeping everyone safe - why don't you go through security immediately upon entering the airport? If someone wanted to, they just have to drive their car up to the airport drop off/pick up, or walk into the line for security and blow themselves to pieces.
I don't feel that gropey pat-downs or xray scanners make me any more safe.
jack | born 9.13.12 at 40w4d | 9 lbs 12 oz | 23 in
my puppy loves - chloe & jenson
pregnancy blog | chart
I agree with all of this! I attempted to write something similar, but got sidetracked at work!
jack | born 9.13.12 at 40w4d | 9 lbs 12 oz | 23 in
my puppy loves - chloe & jenson
pregnancy blog | chart
Not about the subject at all, but you lived on Ellsworth AFB?
Crazy. I spent a good amount of time there and with families on that base. Small world.
On the subject - I'm not a fan of either approach. They also are letting children under 12 through. Which seems kind of defeating anyway. I'm not sure which I would select as my option flying.
Zuma Zoom
I'm flying to California on Sunday & although some of the stories I've heard about the new security procedures are a bit disturbing, I'm not going to freak out about it either.
SO flew to CA with DS 3 weeks ago. He had water, formula & baby food in DS's diaper bag & had no problem getting through security. I'm hoping the same goes for me, especially on the return flight since DS will be with me.
Yeah, they're not always looking at the scans in another viewing room... This is exactly what it was like in Amsterdam:
You go in one side, strike a pose and suck it in, walk out the other side and there's the monitor with the oh-so-flattering picture for all to see. I actually watched a few people go through after me because my husband was a few people back. They didn't do anything to try and conceal the images. But then again, it was in Europe. Americans do tend to be a little more prudish than Europeans.
I know -Maybe I'm having an off day and feel lazy and complacent, but I'm just not terribly worked up about this. Maybe that will change once I am able to read more about it or experience it first hand - but for now, I don't really see an effective alternative and I don't feel threatened that the people in the back room are treating the scanned images as their own private youp0rn channel.
I feel we've given up so much privacy and comfort already in the name of security - bags searched and questions asked - that this is simply the next frustrating step. It isn't something that I like, but I grudgingly accept it if it contributes to the greater good. I guess the issue then is does it contribute to the greater good?
Like Melinda said - this is the newest and latest attempt to stop or prevent the unknown and in time there will be something else (better or worse?) to take its place. And without a doubt there will be people/bad-guy/terrorists/nut-jobs who figure out a new way to threaten us that these measures cannot detect. But for now, this is what they are trying and if it deters crazies out there from trying to sneak on a bomb or whatever, then I guess it is working. I see it more for the deterrent value than for the actual "can spot an explosive butt-plug via x-ray" value.
ETA: Sorry about the bigger font - not sure what caused that!
I did! 18 years total amazingly enough. We moved out to KI Sawyer in Michigan for a few years and then got sent back to Ellsworth until dad retired from the AF. He did a lot more traveling than my sister, mom and I did.
I couldn't remember, but I thought it was you who lived in SD too at some point. Were you in Rapid?
Exactly.
Flying is a choice. People want to feel safe when flying. If they got rid of some security measures and something terrible happened people would raise MUUUUUUUCH more of a stink about them "letting something happen." I've done the full body scan and it's really not a big deal at all.
Although I think these searches are worthless, I don't think comparing commercial flying and personal driving works. They aren't scanning people who pilot their own private planes.
Judging
I guess I don't know quite enough to be able to form an opinion on it being "unconstitutional" or not. In what way IS it unconstitutional? (I'm just curious, not snarky, in case that sounded snarky.) :-)
Can you definitively say 100% that there is proof it does absolutely nothing? The absoluteness of that statement makes me a bit itchy. Maybe it HAS done something and we just haven't heard about it for security reasons?
All I know is it was not an issue in the slightest for me when I went through it. I didn't feel my rights being violated. Based on my personal experience it feels like some people are blowing this way out of proportion.
I too think the comparison to driving is not accurate, but some people in other forums have raised it, so I thought I'd respond to it preemptively.
As for how the searches are unconstitutional, here's a lesson on the Fourth Amendment. It prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. To be reasonable under the Fourth Amendment, the government must have suspicion that the person being searched has done something wrong. The government cannot even force you to give them your fingerprints without suspicion, except under certain circumstances. Even DUI checkpoints you constitutionally can avoid. To require every single person to submit to the new machines, for which they do not know the levels of radiation, or to submit to groping by TSA agents, without suspicion that you are a person who is carrying a weapon violates those Fourth Amendment principles.
MM talked about this earlier in the week. It takes a bit before the people opposing the measures chime in, but several of them are smarter than I am and provide even more information detailing why this is a civil liberties issue that we should just not roll over and take.
http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/45394541.aspx
The reason why Isreal has the best airport security in the world is because that country allows ethnic/behavioral profiling and interviewing of passengers.
I know that. For the record, we allow profiling too, aside from ethnic. Perhaps we should do a bit more questioning of people in airports and a bit less screening that provides only the illusion of security.
This is the impression I was under too.
And I don't see it as a civil liberties issue. You are agreeing to TSA's protocol by buying a commercial airline ticket. If you don't like it you can drive, take the train/bus or charter a private plane.
IF it is ever proven that this doesn't work, I may change my tune. But as of right now, I think most people are blowing it way out of proportion.