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Where do you draw the line?
Where do you draw the line when it comes to cutting a parent out of your life?
Very briefly, I had a horrific childhood, thanks to my parents' monstrous divorce and custody battle that spanned over a decade. They always put my brother and I in the middle, even if they didn't always intend to do so. My brother and I were casualties of their war and our well-being was either directly disregarded or more of an afterthought.
Very recently, new issues arose. Essentially, when my parents divorced, my father was ordered to pay my mother alimony. My father was under the impression that the alimony was to start on the date their divorce was finalized, when in reality the alimony was supposed to start when they separated (3 years earlier). So my father paid my mother all of the alimony, allegedly except for the alimony from the 3 years of their separation. My mother knew he still owed her money, but kept her mouth shut for nearly 20 years because she was collecting 10% compounded interest on that money. Then, rather than telling him "Hey, I think you still owe me money, let's work this out together", she went behind his back and put a lien on his house. He owes her over $50,000 now (with interest).
Well, my father found out about the lien and doesn't think that he even owes her the money. So now the two of them are at war over this money.
I got engaged in August. When FI proposed, he and I had saved up a wedding fund. However, soon after we got engaged, my father offered to pay for our entire wedding. We accepted his offer and used our entire wedding fund to pay off debt from undergrad loans. Last weekend, my father came to visit us, and over lunch told me that he doesn't know if he can pay for our wedding anymore. He said if he owes my mother the money, he can't afford to pay for a wedding on top of it.
And I'm just MAD. I'm mad at my mother for reopening pandora's box of crazy. She was being shady and greedy in waiting so long to collect this money. She also really didn't have to go about collecting the money in the way she did. She shouldn't have waited until things had FINALLY settled down to fight over money from 1991. She only waited so long so she could collect the maximum amount of interest before the statute of limitations ran up. I'm angry because once again, my parents' actions are selfish and I'm just a casualty of the war. Now, FI and I don't even know WHAT we're going to do about our wedding.
I'm completely heartbroken and have been sick over this since I spoke with my dad. I also haven't been taking my mom's calls all week because I'm just too angry to speak with her. I know she'll just play the martyr and get mad at me for having the audacity to blame her for ANYTHING.
I'm quickly realizing that I'm very nearly done dealing with this toxic, selfish, poor excuses for parents. My question is...where do you draw the line of how much you'll put up with from your parents? Have any of you cut out your parents? Do you regret it? Any other thoughts?
Re: Where do you draw the line?
Your father owes your mother the money. "not realizing' the alimony started three years earlier than it did? bogus. He thought she'd forgotten or forgiven it; when she had not. And of course he owes interest. This is not some game your mother is playing to thwart you from getting a free wedding; this is court ordered support he failed to pay her for years.
And that said? Who else should pay your bills but you? Presumably you're an adult. Of course your father has to pay his bills; and of course you have to pay yours. I can easily understand why you are disappointed in this; you were hoping for a free wedding. But now you understand that your father cannot do this, because, in fact, he still owes debts he has not paid; so scale down your plans and pay for it yourselves. And do not blame your mother for asking the courts to enforce what your father has failed to pay voluntarily. It's her right. Are you planning on paying for her support in years to come? I didn't think so.
I don't know how I would feel in your situation, but if you get too emotional about it, it would be like you're letting them involve you in the family drama yet again. Have you thought about having a smaller wedding? There are tons of different ways to cut costs, especially if you do most of the work yourself. Sorry to be a party pooper, but unfortunately it may be the only option. How about your fiance's parents? Are they able to help at all?
Good luck!
You would honestly stop speaking to your mother because she wanted to collect on money that was rightfully hers? I agree that if she just put a lien on the house that there is a certain amount of greed involved, but then I don't know the full details of the situation. Perhaps the lien has been on his house for some time and you didn't know about it?
Your debt is paid off! What a great position for newlyweds to be in. Plan a small wedding and keep your debt paid off. My H and I had a gorgeous wedding and did it all for under 10k - and that includes the honeymoon.
It was sweet of your dad to offer but clearly he needs to grow up and pay his bills first. Set a good example for him and pay for your own wedding as well.
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I don't think you should be angry with your mom for requesting money from your dad that was rightfully entitled to her. As pp said, the lien may have been there for some time without your knowledge. You said yourself this is an ongoing battle that has lasted 10 years, so I am more than sure your dad knew he owed her this money, he was just hoping she forgot about it.
It was super nice of your dad to offer to pay for your wedding, but in reality it sounds like he can't pay for your wedding and also pay off your mom. This is also another reason not to be upset with either of your parents. You and your FI are primarily responsible to pay for your own wedding. Although your dad offered, other circumstances arose that made him not able to do so. I think paying off your debt and starting a marriage debt free is more important than having a glamorous wedding. Scale back, save your cash, and have a small wedding.
You are an adult now; let your parents deal with their issues on their own. You no longer need to get involved. It is ultimately your choice to cut them out of your life or not. No one can really tell you what to do or how to feel in your situation, you need to decide for yourself if having a future relationship with your parents is worth the stress or not.
HTH
I think that it is regrettable that you used your wedding fund to pay for something else before you had the other money in hand, but that ship has sailed. Begin saving again. Does it suck? Yes. Do I feel sorry for you? Only a little.
My parents offered to pay for my wedding, too. That doesn't mean that I've spent every penny I had on something else. My parents are wonderful people but life happens. Money situations can change quickly. My fiance and I have money to pay if things fall through.
I'm sorry about your parents' troubles - they both seem vindictive and angry, even all these years later. Only you can say if its worth cutting them out of your life.
EDIT: Where the money went was not regrettable, by the way! I meant the mistake of using money for something else when you *thought* you had other money coming in. Better to have the new before spending the old. But, you're out of debt. I'm jealous.
You threw your mother under the bus.
If you were willing to accept monies for a party, when you knew your father owes your mother long standing court ordered support, it speaks volumes about your character.
IMHO, "toxic and selfish" could also apply to their daughter.
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Hi everyone. Thanks for the responses so far.
To clarify a bit, my mother put the lien on my father's house within the last year...just before the statute of limitations ran out. I've known since I was a child that he *allegedly* ordered her money, but frankly, when speaking about my father, my mother often bastardizes the truth to the point that it's no longer recognizable. I believed that if he genuinely owed her money, she would have collected it by now. She went behind his back and put this lien on...he only found out about it when he went to remortgage his house!
My anger is more with HOW she went about collecting the money and WHEN she chose to do so rather than the fact that she's collecting it. I couldn't care less who owes what. I care that after they were FINALLY peaceful to each other after nearly 20 years, she brings this nonsense up.
Also, FI's family can barely support themselves. They are not a source to turn to in looking for wedding funds. It seems the only option at this point is to re-start saving ourselves.
But I'm still at my breaking point with my mother because her greed in collecting maximum interest has now caused me to suffer. I'm tired of being the casualty of her war.
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I wanted to try to keep myself out of the middle. I assumed that when someone puts a lien on your house, they (or the courts) notify you of it. I assumed wrong.
Ok, you have only been saving $ since August. It's only five months later, and you didn't buy some dumb consumer goods with that money - you paid off your student loans. The $ went towards a good cause that you will need to pay off anyway. Pat yourself on the back for being smart with your $.
So, start over! That's all you can do.
The line "there are always three truths, your truth, my truth, and the real truth" popped into my head when I read your post. Both your mom and dad are to blame for what happened - neither is an innocent party.
If you want, you can have a smaller wedding and tell both parents "since we are paying for this wedding ourselves, both of you are invited (invite your grandparents, too), but none of your siblings, or their children, or your friends will get an invite. Sorry, we simply can't afford a large wedding."
Would a person be "greedy" if the monies owed were court ordered child support? Court ordered restitution associate with a civil suit? I don't understand why you would knowingly accept the offer of money from a man you know has other debts and then be angry that those must be satisfied first.
The other option was that your father could have lived with the lein and paid it at the sale of his house. He could have borrowed against his pension or 401K. He could have taken a second job. The promise he made to you was as hollow as the ones he probably made to your mother.
I would knowingly accept the offer of money from my father because 1) I don't know if I buy my mother's story that he still OWES her ANYTHING. 2) My father is extremely financially responsible. 3) My father has never given me a reason to believe that he couldn't help me financially when he said he could. He offered me some money to help with expenses in college and made good on those offers.
So, you think that not having to pay for your own pretty princess day as an ADULT is more important than your mother have alimony that she has been legally awarded?
You could push the wedding date out, go to a JP, or save the payments that aren't going to your student loans and elope in a little while.
I didn't say that. I didn't say she shouldn't collect the money if it is, in fact, owed to her. My issue is more with the WHEN and HOW she went about collecting it.
You sound like a spoiled litle brat. You mother cant just put a lien on your fathers house because she feels like it. She must have proof that he owes her money.
I think it is pretty sickening that you are so worried about your pretty princess day instead of your father stealing money that is legally owed to your mother. You are a real peach. Do your mother and draw the line, I think she'd be much better off.
If this were true, then why aren't you mad at your father for putting you in the middle of this? He could have just told you that he could no longer afford to contribute to your wedding, but instead he slandered your mother and got you to stop talking to her. You're still being used as a pawn in their "war" as you put it, and this time you were dragged into it by your dad, and yet all I see is you complaining about your mother (for asking for money she is entitled to) and glorifying your father.
You are free of student loan debt. You are in a position to start saving again.
I know it sucks, but I was in a similar situation, minus the drama. My parents offered to pay a set amount for our wedding. We stayed within that budget when planning. Then they hit some hard times and said they could only afford to pay a fraction of what they originally promised. I spent an evening sulking about it (in privacy), and then got over it. I didn't even sulk when, just before my wedding and all the final payments were coming due, they said they could no longer afford to pay the lesser amount promised, either. That's life sometimes. Find a way to make it work.
Which is none of your business.
Your dad can't afford to contribute any longer because he didn't pay his debts. Period. Don't make this about her.
My H and I had a gorgeous wedding and did it all for under 10k - and that includes the honeymoon.
This.
Each of your parents are or have behaved badly.
I'm sorry you & your FI have to pay for your own wedding but now you're debt free! I wish I was debt free! H and I will be paying off his OOS college loans for years to come... like we'll be done when our kids (that we don't have yet), are in college. So see your glass as half full. There are positives that came from this!
If this is indeed the case, you are putting yourself in a situation you claim you want no part of. You contradict yourself quite a bit, and to me at the end of everything it seems to me the only reason you are pissed about the whole situation in how your mom went about collecting the money is because your father promised you money for your wedding and now cannot follow through because your mother wants her money. If he didn?t promise you anything in the first place would you still be mad??? Probably not because you keep claiming you want to stay out of it. Do yourself a favour and stay out of it like you claim you want to. Save you own money for YOUR wedding or just go have a city hall wedding. You need to remember that a wedding doesn?t make a marriage.
This actually pissed me off. You're supposed to be an adult. Pay for your own wedding, and quit feeling sorry for yourself.
No, I don't think that this situation justifies you cutting your parents out of your life.
You're in this situation because you agreed to take your father's money, and because you spent all of your own money without having your father's money in hand. Lesson learned, don't place 100% of your dependency on a promise ... you need something tangible. And like Larrissa said, ANYTHING could've happened that could've made your father tell you that he could no longer give you the money. Not just your mother.
And, given the back-and-forth between your parents and money, I'm surprised that you thought it was a good idea to take your father's money in the first place. Plus, if you'd REALLY wanted to stay out of it, you shouldn't have agreed to accept wedding money from either of them in the first place.
And you're making this situation all about you right now, like your mother is only going after your dad's money to spite YOU. "Waah, now my daddy can't pay for my wedding" hardly makes you the suffering victim of a war. Grow up and cut the crap.
However, like the previous posters said, putting your savings toward debt is NOT a bad thing. It's not like you blew it all in Vegas or something. You're in an excellent position right now and you're much better off than you probably think you are. Save up some money for the wedding you want and postpone it a while if necessary, or have a small wedding now with the money you've got on hand (and if you wanted something bigger, then maybe save up for a few more years and then treat yourself to a great anniversary vacation).
Stop blaming your parents for your woes. Be an adult, pay for your own wedding, and be grateful that your debt is gone. Not everyone is that fortunate.
http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/45618308.aspx
How did that fight with your brother end?
"a casualty in their war' lol
Someone has learned to play this to the hilt, hasn't she?
Indeed. If anything I feel far worse for the mother than for her. She seems like the real victim here - an ex-husband who still doesn't keep his promises (a promise to pay her the alimony as enforced by the court) and a disrespectful daughter who would disown her because she stood in the way of her "pretty princess day."
It's not for you to buy or not buy your mother's version. The courts did.
I don't think the OP sounds like a spoiled brat. Her dad told her he would pay for her wedding. She never said she asked, or that she expected him to, but that he offered. And they spent their savings paying off student loans, not on something irresponsible. This post is a far cry from a lot of posts coming through these boards of girls whining that their parents won't pay for their weddings.
OP- I think the situation is unfortunate but the only thing you have left to do is save up again for the wedding and plan something within your financial means.
oh man, i don't want to sound mean, but your entire family sounds very dramatic. between this post and your one about your fight with your brother, and your description of your parents relationship and their divorce and them putting you guys in the middle and dragging it out for years, etc. it really seems like there are alot of issues here and although i am sure you all love each other, you all are kind of angry and mean to each other. It seems to be a pattern and a very reoccuring issue.I think you need to take a step back and realize this is all out of your control. I can understand being disappointed and it does sound like your mom is trying to stick it to your dad for all the back interest etc, but it really is par for the course though from what it sounds. It sounds like it was very ugly and it still is. You can't really do anything about it, except if you are able to civilly talk to your mom about it and see why she is still so angry at your dad, etc, maybe you can do that? But i would do that more for her and to just be there for her than to just get money from your dad for the wedding. And really would you want all these people in the same room for your wedding anyway? I think i would just elope! it's not worth the stress or the drama.
Good luck to you! I wish your family peace & harmony!!