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Can I get a hell yes?
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Re: Can I get a hell yes?
Wow! I'm usually not offended. However, as the parent of a very difficult child, I honestly am. I do not consider the grocery store to be an "adult establishment" and I would never dicipline my child for having a potty training accident. "The look" doesn't do anything for my oldest. In fact, we have yet to find anything that really works for him. He is very strong willed and we've tried everything, even professional help.
I find the following very offensive:
"And we know you don't discipline them at home because you don't possess "the look." If you had "the look," you wouldn't need to say "sit down" a thousand times.
If you had "the look," you wouldn't need to say much of anything at all. But this nonverbal cue needs to be introduced early and reinforced diligently with consequences for transgressions, just like potty training. And whenever a kid throws a temper tantrum in the middle of the shopping mall it's just as bad as his soiling his pants to spite his parents, and it stinks just as much."
Not all of us are blessed with easy going children. I know it's not my parenting. We have 2 kids. Once who is very easily diciplined and one who is not. One who is a perfect angel in public, and one who just isn't. We can't stay home forever, and I have to buy groceries. We don't have family here, so I have to take them to the store. It's just a reality.
Do I wish he were easily diciplined? Hell yes!
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I too see where you are coming from as well. My son is a VERY difficult child and we have sought help from our pedi, behavior specialist, and a child psychologist. He just started the smallest dose of ADHD medication at 5 years old if that tells you anything of what we have been going through with his impulsive behavior. I think the article might be referring to those parents that attempt to do NOTHING when their child acts up in public. Or at least that is what I was gathering from reading.
Absolutely!
-Like the 4 year old who pulled down his pants and peed all over the playground at Lupe Tortillas and his mom did NOTHING, except (once I brought it to her attention) eventually sweep some sand over the pee w/her foot and then immediately go back to drinking her margaritas and ignoring him--with her back turned away from the playground then entire time. WATCH YOUR KID, dammit!
-Like the 5 year old classmate who punched my child on the playground at school (several of us moms were there & witnessed it), and when it was brought to his mother's attention (right after it occurred) all she did was say, in the sugariest, sweetest way "oh honey, we don't hit" and let him carry on with playing...no sitting out, no leaving the playground, NO CONSEQUENCES WHATSOEVER.
Those are the types of people I believe this article is referring to. Not people who are actually TRYING.
Funny stuff!
I had the exact same reaction to this article and I know I'm probably in the minority. I thought he sounded sanctimonious (sp?) and judgy.
Brandi (this is MGR by the way)....you know I say this to you all the time, and I mean it. Luca is a genius, plain and simple. It's as if his brain is working much faster than his body most of the time. He is so inventive and creative. I just LOVE watching him and seeing what he'll come up with. It truly is a gift he has. He is also extremely determined. You try very hard to keep him grounded and controlled. I see it all the time. But, you sometimes you can't tame a spirit like his. He is an incredible little boy and I can't wait to watch him grow up and see what he does with all of that inquisitiveness and creativity!!!
He totally did.
I agree that many parents let their kids get away with too much, especially older kids (like the one pictured at the top of the article). But it's not the all-or-nothing deal that he makes it out to be.
I'm just saying there is another side to every story. It's super easy to judge the parent (mother especially) of wild children.
My kid is the one that hits other kids, and I'm the parent that says "sit down" a thousand times. I HATE it. It's awful. I hate that every person in the restaurant/store/parking lot/play ground/pool/younameit knows his name after 5 minutes.
We can't always leave (I have 2 kids, we are with friends, I need time out of the house too) and making him sit out creates a big scene (usually worse than the initial act). I'm not sure what's worse. What do you want the parent to do? We usually deal with consequences at home in private. It's better for everyone. I do what's best for our family, not what "looks best" to the other parents.
A friend in a similar position had the police called on her in a store for dicipling her child (she wasn't spanking, just being very stern and restraining him in order to take control).
My point is just to think twice before you judge the parent. Everyone has a unique situation. I don't think any parent wants their child to turn out to be a psychopath or ax murderer. I love my child for who he is. He is super bright and we are trying to channel his energy in a positive direction, even if you don't see it in the grocery store or on an airplane.
Ditto all of this. My "look" works on other people's kids, I taught preschool and nannied for years, my "look" worked on all those kids. My kid laughs and mimics me, he does a shockingly good impression of my "look." sigh.
ETA: While I didn't like his general "I'm doing it right, you're not" tone, I know there are parents out there who let their kids--especially older kids-- run amok, so I assume that's who he is addressing.
I'm sorry but a 5 year old who hits needs to be punished immediately....not later, after the fact. And I can guarantee you that in this case, the mother didn't ever intend to do anything whatsoever. Which is why this same kid had troubles all year at school (in the classroom, on the playground, in PE, etc). In at least this case, it was most certainly because of lack of discipline at home.
I think it's unfair to compare your child (who you obviously attempt to discipline), still rather young (3, right?), to the 4, 5, 6 yr olds and on up who behave in this manner. What is reasonable behavior for one age group, isn't for another.
so, bpaullo, it's okay for a kid to pull his pants down and pee on the playground, then sweep sand over it, and act like nothing happened?
even though you may have a child who is more difficult to control, i don't think that means we should all look the other way when someone IS NOT, clearly is not, controlling their child. i don't think your situation is the norm. i think more often, it's parents who don't want to mess with the discipline/consequences aspect of parenting because they don't have the balls to do it.
if i had a child who was so difficult in a grocery store that i had the police called on me, i'd gladly greet them when they arrived and asked if they were ready to take my child to kid-jail. i have been the parent of the possessed goat-child in the grocery store. i thank my lucky stars it wasn't like that all the time!!!
there is a HUGE difference between the two situations. trust me, i work with children, i've seen it...lol.
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Exactly.
While there are a lot of pure brats out there, there are also more kids out there than I ever realized with disabilities that lead to behavior problems. Someone very close to me, who is a fabulous mother, has a son that has a speech delay. His inability to speak leads to him being very hyper and acting out. He is very hard to control and being in public can be a nightmare. While I definitely agree there are some serious brats out there, it's not my place to judge each situation. My minor inconvenience by a screaming kid is nothing compared to what the parents endure day in and day out.
I also know a lady who has an autistic child who will throw huge fits in public. She passes out small cards to people who give her dirty looks that say "My child is Autistic, please pray for our family". May God bless her in that walk through life - I cannot imagine.
The kids who intentionally pee in a sandbox or slap their parents in the face are different stories, but those parents will pay the price of not being disciplinarians.
I guess my point is, we all should worry a little more about looking inward than worrying so much about other people. If you're blessed with a perfect angel in public, send some thanks every time you see a fit thrown or a kid slap their mother...you just never know when you may be in that situation that you just "judged".
This is interesting. I would also think she was deaf since she handed me a card. I wouldn't even explain myself to people. For me it would make an already difficult situation even harder.
This is very well put but I still think that the main purpose of the article was that of parents who do nothing. You can tell when a parent is attempting to either talk to or discipline their child versus situations like Kel mentioned where actually addressing their kiddo takes more energy than they are willing to exert. My son has been diagnosed but I work with a professional behavior specialist 2 times a month so that with proper discipline that he understands + medication = he has a chance at being a "normal" kid. What works for most parents (the look, time out, spanking) DOES NOT work for Kohen so I had to take the professional route to find various things that do work for us. It's been rough but it is getting so much better.
She has had so many comments about her being a "bad parent" and "control your child" and dirty looks and comments that she uses it as an awareness method. Not sure I would have the guts to do it..
While I 100% wholehearted agree with all the responses to bpaullo's response saying "but you're trying"...that was NOT what the author intended to portray in his article. The gist I got from it is that "if you discipine your child, they would behave in public. Period. If your child doesn't behave in public, it is your fault. Period" NO if's, and's or but's about it. It is a complete slap in the face to those wonderful moms who TRY to discipline in publicly acceptable ways, to no avail. He did not say that he commends moms who TRY. Insinuating that the author meant anything than what he said sounds like backtracking to me.
What's the the appropriate punishment? TONS of BOYS that pee on the playground. I've seen it dozens of times..... Beat them to make the other parents feel better? Put him in diapers again? Threaten to lock him away for life? Burn his toys? There isn't a bathroom... go home so they can climb the walls? You tell me. I'm willing to try ANYTHING.
My kid is 3.5...
I agree - completely, but what are we to do? Give them a violation? There is nothing you can do and sometimes it is difficult to tell one situation from another. People who are just "crappy parents" will probably end up with a world of problems, but I am not sure what a bystander at a restaurant can do to change it??
I agree, that's exactly what he said.
And a big fat lol to a grocery store being an 'adult establishment.'
hell yes
Just read the article and was going to comment on my son being harder to discipline because of his speech delay (not the fabulous mother part :-)
We have been working on it ourselves and with professionals but it can still be very frustrating at times. "Traditional" discipline that others would understand and find appropriate for his age, isn't necessarily right for him because he doesn't completely understand why. That makes it hard on us. He's starting to get it and talking more but I can see us getting the side eye from others because it's not what they would do. You know what, you do what is best for your family and child/ children. People can judge me all they want.
I also think that the article is about the parents who do nothing to discipline their children when they are acting out. You can usually tell when someone is trying vs. not doing anything to control their child.
I have a very spirited "older" child and do have to remind her how to act in public sometimes. I don't do it because I'm worried that someone will think I'm a bad parent, I do it to teach her that there are ways to behave and the way she is acting is not correct. I could care less if someone thinks I'm a bad parent because my child is being loud or acting out.
I totally disagree with what the article said about infants on an airplane though. What are you supposed to do if you infant is crying? If you have tried to feed them, play with them, distract them, etc. It's not like I can discipline my 8 month old to get him to stop crying on a plane.
Collin Thayne 10.11.2010
This is exactly how I interpreted the article.
I find it amazing that so few of you have no problem with unruly children out in public who are not attended to IN ANY WAY by their parents.
I suppose I should just allow my child (and others) to be the punching bag of other children....and should just blindly turn the other cheek....ignore it altogether,huh?
(This wasn't kids roughhousing, or my child egging on this child in any way....this was an out-of-the-blue punch by a FIVE year old).
I completely agree. It's not as black and white as he makes it sound.
Totally different situation than expecting kids to be perfect angels everywhere or stay home. I am pretty sure that if groceries weren't purchased and the child starved, the hell to pay with CPS and law enforcement would outweigh the child's bratty behavior in public.
And a 5-year old pulling that stunt is way different than a 2-3 year old.