I still struggle with gay marriage

2Vermont · November 2008

soprano87:

I get what you're saying, 2V, but it goes back to assuming that being gay is a choice. What many of us are saying is that it is not a choice. And as such, they are being discriminated against based upon an innate quality and their very being.

I don't think it's particularly Christian to discriminate against people who love each other. "The greatest of these is love", right? I think as Christians, folks need to support people who are trying to create loving families. That's all these people are trying to do. I understand why it's hard to get your head around that, but I applaud your trying.

I think I understand better than you think I do.....the fact that I do adds more to my struggle.

soprano87 · November 2008

2Vermont:
I think I understand better than you think I do.....the fact that I do adds more to my struggle.

Ok, well, I'll leave it to others who get where you are coming from then. Good luck

2Vermont · November 2008

soprano87:
2Vermont:

I think I understand better than you think I do.....the fact that I do adds more to my struggle.

Ok, well, I'll leave it to others who get where you are coming from then. Good luck

:-)

talltalltrees · November 2008

2Vermont:
talltalltrees:

I think it's important to define what "marriage" is in order to have this discussion. Is it a legal partnership? Is it a union recognized in the eyes of God?

Do you think that when a couple goes down to City Hall and obtains a marriage certificate, that's a sacred union in the eyes of God? I'm not a terribly religious person, but I would think most religious people would say no. That's all that "gay marriage" is about, really. They aren't fighting for the right to go into a church and have the minister bless their union - they're simply fighting for the right to go to City Hall and get that piece of paper. If you believe that the true sanctity of marriage is the commitment made before God and recognized by a church or religious authority, then a gay couple obtaining a marriage license issued by the state poses no threat and has no relevancy to "real" marriage.

But isn't God present at City Hall too?

True, but that doesn't mean he's blessing everything that goes on there, or that everything there is sacred, right? There's no sanctity involved when someone gets, say, a fishing permit.

2Vermont · November 2008

talltalltrees:
2Vermont:
talltalltrees:

I think it's important to define what "marriage" is in order to have this discussion. Is it a legal partnership? Is it a union recognized in the eyes of God?

Do you think that when a couple goes down to City Hall and obtains a marriage certificate, that's a sacred union in the eyes of God? I'm not a terribly religious person, but I would think most religious people would say no. That's all that "gay marriage" is about, really. They aren't fighting for the right to go into a church and have the minister bless their union - they're simply fighting for the right to go to City Hall and get that piece of paper. If you believe that the true sanctity of marriage is the commitment made before God and recognized by a church or religious authority, then a gay couple obtaining a marriage license issued by the state poses no threat and has no relevancy to "real" marriage.

But isn't God present at City Hall too?

True, but that doesn't mean he's blessing everything that goes on there, or that everything there is sacred, right? There's no sanctity involved when someone gets, say, a fishing permit.

LOL.. Smile

2Vermont · November 2008

Before I sign off for the night, I just wanted to thank everyone for their posts. Everyone has been very helpful to me.

pvillewife06 · November 2008

I think you're awesome for talking about this subject knowing that your opinion is going to be different than others on the board.

I would like gay marriage to be allowed just as heterosexual marriage is allowed. I don't believe that being gay is a choice. My best guy friend is gay and it was a struggle for him to come out to his parents. His mom is very accepting now but for awhile she was ashamed and disappointed. He still doesn't have a good relationship with his dad. I don't believe he would choose all of that and I know he didn't.

I also believe that the family is the basic, fundamental unit of society and we need to strengthen it, not inhibit it. I don't think our government should be in the business of dictating what families should look like. I don't think that's how we strengthen families. I think we strengthen families by allowing couples that want to make that committment and investment to each other to get married and raise their families in a stable healthy home. I agree with what a lot of other posters have said about gay couples being like my h and I, no different than heterosexual couples.

Temp534591562502098 · November 2008

ok - the only reason I am responding to this again is because its in the hot topics and it got me thinking about it again - so maybe you wont see this again, but if you end up looking back I wanted to just address your thoughts, 2V.

The 2 things that seemed to stick out was 1) you feel that God does not condone gay marriage, and 2) voting "for" gay marriage = condoning it.

I'm not gonna get into a debate as to whether or not God actually condones gay marriage because that's not really what you are asking, and I'm not trying to change your beliefs - its a whole other can of worms. What this really seems to come down to is the guilt you may feel or "sin" you may be inadvertently committing by enabling others to "sin" or even maybe encouraging other to "sin".

This seems to come down to the whole "free will" part of being a human, being a christian, and being an American. We don't have laws to make us good Christians - we choose to be good Christians and also live life experiences and make mistakes to sometimes learn the hard way why God doesn't want us to do certain things. Jesus never wanted Christians to create a "christian state" - Christianity is an individual's religion where others can guide by example - not forcing. How is it christian to "force" someone to not sin? So, while you WOULD be voting to allow gay people to marry - what you are ALSO doing is allowing people to make those choices for themselves, to go down that road and see where it leads. You aren't preventing them from making that choice. To me, a christian doesn't prevent others from making bad choices - they show by example and by counsel and through love - not the law.

Yes, there are plenty of laws that coincide with what we also deem as "sinning", like stealing, murder, etc. But, those have practical, rational relationships to keeping a peaceful, productive society. Stealing isn't illegal in America because Christianity says its a sin - its illegal because it would be very hard to keep a community peaceful and productive otherwise.

Think of all the other "sins" that we do not have laws for here. Do you really think it would be your country's place to out law all of them? Make all people observe the Sabbath? Make all people honor their parents? Stop all people from saying the Lords name is vain? Do you think that's what god's plan was? What will people learn then? How will they grow spiritually then? But if they have the chance to choose to "sin" in those ways - they get the experience of feeling the downer of not honoring their parents - and they get the happiness when they do honor them. If its the law anyways - how have they gotten any reward out of it? They haven't. How can they learn? They can't. How can they grow as Christians? They wont. How are they closer to God? They're not.

So basically, in summary, my point is that, to me, its un-christian to prevent someone from going down that spiritual road, be it through laws or otherwise. Voting to allow gay marriage is also voting to give people (including gay people) free will - the freedom to marry and see where that leads. The freedom to figure out for themselves if its a sin or not. The chance to take that life journey - and also the chance to come to the same decision you have come to, on their own and in their own way.

here is a link that I think touches on my point. I didn't read the whole thing but hopefully it gives you more bible-based insight!!!

http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd2.htm

2Vermont · November 2008

Wow sugr..I did see it..and it was awesome. Thank you.

I still struggle with gay marriage

Re: I still struggle with gay marriage

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