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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Re: I am so tired of this
My dh was thinking of commuting when he was interviewing for another job. Granted, we have children, but that is a HUGE decision to make, and I wouldn't blame someone for not wanting a "commuter marriage." If going to business school was such a huge deal for you, why didn't you think about this BEFORE you got married - ONE year ago? Did this not come up? Did you think of waiting until you had actually enrolled? It's not that easy to travel on the weekends when you are in business school - you miss a lot of the social bonding that happens with networking, and study groups, etc. tend to meet during the weekend as well. It's also a chance to catch up on topics that you couldn't grasp during the heavy workweek.
I agree with poster who said just b/c you are bored and the economy svcks, doesn't mean you need to spend $100K on business school.
You accuse your h of sh*tting on your dreams, but you have made a lot of "all or nothing" ideals - you MUST go top20, you MUST go full time, your H MUST telecommute.
I would talk about narrowing your applications to three schools - Sloan,HBS, and Tuck (Dartmouth) and agreeing to commute to NH
You sound like the typical spoiled beebee bride who had her fairy princess day, and now is shocked that living happily ever after doesn't mean the princess gets everything she wants when she wants it. Don't worry, many young brides have "starter marriage" before they realize that marriage requires committment and compromise. The good news is, with your high salary, you can afford to pay for your next princess day all by yourself.
Is the salary disparity issue something that YOU feel, or is it something that your husband is bringing up to you? If you husband has an issue with you making less than him, then I say he's an a-hole and you might want to get some counseling or run for the hills.
If the income disparity bothers you (not him), then I can see where you're motivated to make more money (don't we all want to do better for ourselves?). I totally get that you work in a job where you're not happy and feel like you're not living up to your full potential, but the economy is sh*t, debt is not so cool, and there's no guarantee of a better job or even that you'll be happier.
DH and I are in a similar situation. I didn't want to stay here after college, DH did. I made that sacrifice for him and got a job here. Now he's no longer happy in his job and wants to move, but since I make more money, it's not logical for us to do that right now while we pay off debt and try to ride out the rough economy. DH is now making the sacrifice by sticking it out in his job. I want to get my MPH, but we're not comfortable tacking on even more student loan debt, so I will wait until we can save some money up. I have to make that sacrifice. The point is: we both have had to give things up because that's what was best for US as a COUPLE, not for each individual. It sounds like you going on to get your MBA right now is what's best for you, not for the couple, and maybe that's why your husband is digging his heels in.
Fbf2006 Thank you,
We've been fighting a lot. I work longer hours than he does, and am responsible for an operational finance team that's been badly understaffed for the past 3 years. I've made countless recommendations with insane amounts of data analysis for addressing the staffing issue and made recommendation after recommendation, but it appears that the only time anything is addressed is when people leave/threaten the company (lawsuit, threatening to leave, etc). I barely have the energy to drive home at the end of the day and am long past the point where I think anything that I can do will impact anything. I have been miserable the entire time i've been in this job, but I needed to prove myself, as a manager and also to show longevity with a company, as the longest job previously was 18mos. I've been there for over 3 years now.
We made the decision for b school last fall - our original agreement was that if I can't get into a top 20 I wouldn't go and would look for another career. We forestalled argument by agreeing it was pointless to argue when I might not get the GMAT score that would enable me to apply. When I got my score I nearly burst into tears, I was so relieved. I was shaking and called him, my siblings and my parents. Of all of them, the only person surprised was him. I didn't tell him on the phone. I arranged to meet him for lunch and handed him the paper with my preliminary score. He looked like he'd been sucker-punched. To date, we've forestalled arguments on which school by determining the short list and agreeing not to discuss until I actually get in somewhere. He's agreed not to discuss, but hasn't upheld that agreement. We recently celebrated our one year wedding anniversary. It was an absolutely amazingly good weekend -right up until he ended it by telling me that my going to business school would prevent us from having a family.
I don't think he has confidence in me. I don't think he sees me as intelligent, capable and strong and this realization has been creeping up on me since before the GMAT, but it's a pretty strong feeling. I feel like he makes promises based on me clearing pre-specified hurdles and is completely dumbfounded when I actually clear the hurdles. I don't think he ever believed I was capable of getting a score that would enable me to go.
We've not combined finances, he doesn't approach anything as "ours" it's his and mine separately. Separate bank accounts, separate frequent flier miles, separate long term goals, separate short term goals. As for leisure time, because I've been visiting schools and had to take medical leave earlier in the year, he'll be vacationing with friends without me this year. I'll be spending thanksgiving on my own while he takes a 10 day trip somewhere. Last I heard he wanted to go to east Africa for a safari on the savannah.
When he met me, he had resigned himself to the possibility of not having kids. Right up until I started talking about business school, he was hesitant bordering on not interested. This sudden interest in kids is pretty shocking, actually.
I'll talk to him, he's my husband, it's not like I have a choice.
Kellbell1919 -
I don't know any generalizations about British marriage expecations and I wouldn't have any way of gauging whether his are in line with his culture or not.
I also don't know of any studies on first generation Indians in the US. Immigrants, yes, 1st gens, no.
I'm so sorry. Based on your posts, that's what I was thinking as well. He initially agreed to your b-school aspirations because he didn't really think you'd get a good GMAT score. My husband not believing in me would be tough. How long did you both date for? Business school is 2 years so if you apply this year, you'd be done in 2014 and I guess he'd be 42? So basically he thinks that'd be too late for him to start having kids?
I don't think it is fair you pay half the rent for a place you are not on the deed. It should be based on a % of your income.
Nobody knows how long it takes to conceive and he could be 45 even if you never went back to school. Maybe it is not his lack of confidence in you, but the lack of confidence in himself. You going to school and being successful could pose a threat to what he perceives as him having the upper hand in the relationship. Unless he thinks this is not what he bargained for when marrying.
fbf2006,
We were together for 4 years before getting married.
I'm not looking to get out right now. I'm just really tired of jumping through hoops.
When I got home from work on Tuesday, I spent the evening with our neighbors having tea upstairs in their condo. He wasn't home. WHen I came down for dinner, he had arrived home. He seemed pretty chastened all evening.
We've had 2-3 arguments in our relationship of this scale in 5 years and all of them come down to this confidence issue.
It's hard to explain the finances except that we live in a high income area, and although I earn less than half of his salary, we are each doing well financially, especially in comparison to our peers. The median household income where we live is $58,457 based on a 2007 estimate. My salary alone is above the household income for the area. My concern with income growth isn't so much that I'm not doing well compared to him, as my income has stagnated over the past 3 years, where in the previous three, the growth was pretty steep. Looking at my options, I don't see any way of continuing to grow my income over my career without the higher education. How depressing is it to have hit a salary ceiling before 30!
As far as kids go, if I were to quit my job today and start having them, he would be retiring right as the went to college and given the volatility in the markets, I am afraid that his income isn't going to grow and his savings may diminish simply due to economic fluctuations making it difficult to help them start their lives on their own and making our retirment plans challenging. If I were to have kids and stay working, there's real concern that I may have capped out in terms of salary growth, and that the only way for me to continue to increase salary would be to change my core function. Which means at the time kids go to college, we'd still be faced with a sizaeble loss of income. The reason I want to meet and pass him in income level has more to do with paying for college than anything else. I don't want to be crippled by this expense down the road and I definitely don't want my kids to be facing it down either. Potentially moving from a business and operations focus to an IT focus. It can be done, but it would be another serious slogging for a few years. In school I can control my positioning, bolster my skill set in my current area of expertise and sharpen my marketing skills to push me past the education barrier.
We'll get past this I just hate that we're rehashing old arguments all the time.
obviously there are bigger issues here.
But, I wanted to address that if I were you, I would only look at top 5. MAYBE top 10. H just graduated from a top 20. The only people who had good jobs upon graduation were those who had fantastic jobs before they got in. Its rough right now.
But then again, I have a friend at Harvard who had a great job going in and couldn't get an internship this summer. So who knows? I mean, when they have 900 students every year, they can't all end up on wallstreet.
Maybe you answered this already, but do you want to go into corporate finance or Investments?
The lists all say different things about ranking. I've been focusing on a couple of things, to narrow down the top 20.
1. Finance focus - as I mentioned, I'm not keen on HBS. I'd prefer MIT Sloan if I were to get into both specifically for MIT's reputation in quant and HBS's widely acknowledged general management bent.
2. Major job markets - Boston, NY and Chicago actually have lots of jobs in the areas that both my husband and I work in. We could ultimately choose to settle anywhere.
3. Recruiting. Columbia/NYU is Wall Street heavy, where Chicago Booth is more of a Management Consulting bent.
In banking there's the three arms, right? Sales/Trading, Investment Management and Corporate Finance. In large corporations there's FP&A and Business Development. Corporate Finance if I end up at a bank, FP&A at a major corporation and Strategy Consulting if I go the consulting route. The skill sets are pretty similar, I like solving complex business problems and thinking about economic problems.
The reason I ask is because IMO what you want to go into makes a difference in regards to where you go. Wallstreet firms tend to be super picky and focus 95% of their recruiting at about 5 schools. If you want to go into corporate finance, its often better to go to one of the top 20 that isn't one of those 5. Again, JMO based on experience.
But as to your OP, I have mixed feelings. I agree he isn't being supportive and thats not fair. On the other hand, debt is a HUGE deal. Its not as simple as "this is what I want to do and I should be able to do it. " I'm also very anti debt, so in that way I can relate to your husband. If we had to pay for grad school, we probably would have fought about what to do, to be honest.
Irish -
I understood why you asked. I'm pretty pragmatic about where I end up. I'm more concerned with the content of the work than anything, and there are lots of ways to get that content, they all requiring unquestionable credentials, which is what I'm working toward.
The debt thing is wierd. He doesn't contribute to my car debt, for example, which enables me to get to work. His ex SIL married his bro, went to nursing school and ran up 80K (sterling, not dollars) in commercial debt and then left his bro holding the bag in the divorce as she only works part time to collect benefits from the UK gov't - which she does by choice.
I'm not responsible for others actions or behavior and I'm not her. He needs to get over it and trust me not to be the selfish gold-digger he thinks she is.
I'm taking a shot at the programs he and I selected together, and will use whatever network that school excels in to get the job that has the content that I'm looking for.
One of my good friends is first gen Indian in the US and has had a lot of issues in her marriage similar to the ones you are describing, hence the question. She describes a lot of it as cultural, she was raised x,y,z and its hard for them to break those patterns in her opinion.
I get that everyone's marriage is different and that there's no "right" or "wrong" way to conduct it..........but this paragraph really stands out to me.
You two sound more like roommates than you do husband and wife. Which is fine, if that's what you want and it's working..............but apparently, it's not working anymore. It sounds like you want more than a roommate now - you want someone who will support you unconditionally and financially, by either packing up their life and moving to be with you in as as of yet undetermined place or by just financing your own place near your school. It sounds like he also wants more than a roommate now - he is thinking about kids and family.
And you sound resentful (I don't blame you). You think that getting a prestigious MBA and a new job will give you more leverage in your marriage and thus make you happier. But as others have said, you can't buy self-worth, and no degree in the world from any school in the world will make you feel better about yourself or the marriage that you're in.
If going back to school for an MBA is what you want, then by all means go for it. But realize that your roommate - er, husband - isn't along for the ride, and decide accordingly.
In my experience (not personally, through family/friends), HBS is fine for Wall Street, doesn't matter that classes are mainly case based. Firms still recruit heavily from there. I would go to HBS over Sloan, unless maybe I get some money to go to Sloan. Obviously, not everyone at HBS wants to go to Wall Street. I've always thought Booth was more finance focused than mgmt consulting but I might have that wrong.
I agree with Irish that if you want to go into corporate.finance, you should probably go to a lesser ranked school (top 20) where you'll probably be able to get decent scholarships.
Besides all that, you and your husband need to discuss your goals as a couple. I don't think it's just about your aspirations to go to b-school. I think there's a lot more going on.
Like I said, WHY I asked the question. I'm also curious how and where you all met if there is a 15 year age difference and you're 24.
You and your husband both sound very set on life plans that benefit you and fulfill you as individuals without much consideration as to how they affect your partner. Until one of you is willing to open a dialogue about compromising and both of you are willing to include the other person and compromise, I don't see anyone making much progress in this situation. I do think the age difference comes into play here as well; you're young enough that you want to do independent things that benefit you as an individual and he's old enough that he feels he's accomplished a lot for himself and doesn't want to give it up. Cue stalemate.
I think you need to take a step back and realize that plans change. It's fine, good even to have a life plan and where you want to go as a couple, but you have to realize that plans will change over time. I agree that he is being unfair with you and possibly trying to keep you as the lesser partner in terms of education and $. But he is also allowed to say hey, the current plan makes me nervous, this is what my concerns are, can we factor in those concerns. Part of being married is not being able to do what you want to do all the time and having to consider another person's thoughts and feelings.
At the same time I completely identify with your desire to pursue a challenging career and a challenging job. You should be able to go to a top business school and pursue a high powered career if you want them and can get them. But those are not easy prospects and they will absolutely affect your husband, which means they're hard to accomplish if he isn't on board. Are either of you open to marriage counseling? Your schedule sounds tricky, but it may be a good way to help you both learn to compromise and prioritize the marriage. No matter how unfair your husband is being there are times you will have to prioritize your marriage over some of your personal goals.
Because it sounds like you're giving your husband an ultimatum, I suggest you both go to marriage counseling. It's not like he's saying you can't get your MBA - he's asking you to consider other schools that are possibly closer and wouldn't create so much debt. Remember your debt becomes his debt. What are the consequences of going down road A (top 20, $$$$) and road B (not top 20, less $$)?
I think marriage is about compromise and sometimes taking turns to work on achieving our dreams, especially when raising a family starts coming into play. For many years my husband and I have had the same salary, and we have the same college degree, but we know from now on things are going to be different in phases. I wouldn't demand my husband sacrifice his job and living location because I specifically want to go to a certain school. You have to see the whole picture and think 5, 10 years down the road, and what is good for you both as a unit. I can see why he'd be frustrated because it looks like you're not giving him any options and you're pushing him into a corner.
We met at a going away party hosted by our friends. I'm 29. I was 24 when I met him.
Three roommates in an apt, one was his friend, one was mine and one was going away.
I've actually tried taking him to counseling when we were planning our wedding. He felt that the counselor took my side and refused to go back. I need to chew on some of these posts for a bit.
At the same time I still think you're asking him a lot to start looking for jobs in other cities if he's not interested in moving out of Boston.
However, I don't think he's arguing fair if he claims to want or support something, and then back-peddle later on. He seems untrustworthy in that respect, and at the same time you're asking a lot of him too in regards to potentially moving to attend b-school.
This isn't a case of who is "right" and who is "wrong", but I still think it'd be good for you both to go to marriage counseling to compromise and learn how to negotiate. And to figure out what is with him changing his mind all the time -- can he be trusted? I mean, even if he DOES agree to your plan and he does start looking online for jobs in other cities, can you really trust him to follow through?
I don't know, I don't fully agree with this. Obviously a married couple has to agree/compromise. I just don't see what exactly is wrong with one spouse moving for the other for school or work. I guess I'm imposing my own thought process into things because I can't see myself being with someone that just refuses to move just because. Ofcourse one can't just blindly move since he'll need a job he likes, so the whole process has to be done carefully and with a lot of planning, but just to refuse to move?
I understand his debt argument but nothing else. I've lived in various cities though, so I'm personally not adverse to moving so that's my own bias.
I've followed this whole thread and I've been on the verge of replying several times, but I just couldn't get a clear enough take on your situation to feel like I could reply meaningfully and accurately. My thinking about your dilemma has evolved as you've continued to reply in the thread.
However, I know one darn thing for sure: If I felt my husband had encouraged my dream of applying to business schools only because he though I probably wouldn't do well enough on the GMATs to make my application viable, I'd be royally PI$$ED OFF! I would feel incredibly patronized. It would take a lot for me to regain trust in my husband's feelings about my competence.
It seems like he's pretty comfortable in that patronizing role. You may have enjoyed that at age 24, but it seems like you've outgrown that position. The two of you may be headed in different directions.
I think you're probably closest to my thought process of all of the posters. I am Royally Pissed about the back-peddling, but I've finally burned through the worst of the anger and am now able to actually talk to him about it.
I so don't get the resistence to moving as since he's started working he's lived in 3 countries and 4 cities. And we chose the schools together based on the job markets in the cities they are in, and the opportunities for someone with his background.
I have talked to him and we've agreed to wait and see what happens with the applications, what schools I get into. I've promised to go to MIT if I get in. If I don't, it depends on the schools I do get accepted at.
I would prefer Chicago and then NYU and then Kellog over the others, while he would prefer Harvard, Columbia and NYU (essentially Boston first, New York next and Chicago last).
My preference for the three schools is based on cultural fit. I did not have great experiences visiting Columbia and Harvard and didn't like the people that I met. I'll keep trying to meet more students, but that's the hesitation. Really that's all.
MIT, Chicago, NYU and Kellog all radiated energy. Their students were dynamic, engaged and seemed to all have good employement prospects. Everyone seemed to have internships, both from the stats and from talking to people and the 2nd years I talked to all had jobs lined up. The interaction between students and professors in the classrooms was great as well.
Thanks for letting me vent. I'll drag him into therapy once the doc is back from vacation.
In the meantime, we're going out to dinner to my favorite restaurant.