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I'm really angry and need advice (long, be patient, sorry)
So, SO and I are pretty serious, right? Living together, etc. Our relationship is AMAZING, except for one thing that I cannot get over. He and his ex-wife talk on the phone twice a week. They do not have kids. Here's some background:
SO and XW were high school sweethearts and got married after college. He went to law school and she started attending that school for her masters and PhD. He graduated and moved back to TX, she stayed in IN. After 16 total years together their marraige fell apart (she had doubts about getting married before the wedding, but they went ahead due to family pressure, etc) and their divorce was finalized a year ago this past April.
When he and I first started dating she and he talked pretty much daily, and after things started getting more serious between us I made it clear I was NOT comfortable with that, and he told her that they needed to put up some boundaries and only talk twice a week. We had some battles about it because he doesn't want her back, she supposedly doesn't want him back (but I think that now that she's seen how he can pull a pretty girl {I'm sorry for saying that, but I'm trying to be honest, please don't attack me!!!} and certainly one where there is a lot more fun in the relationship (She's on his FB, she sees our pictures and status updates) she's rethinking her stupid (for her) decision to let him go. When he did this she got mad and wouldn't talk to him for a week. (Oh that was nice) Anyway, that's where we are now.
Way back when this all started I hacked his phone and realized he lied when I asked him if he had talked or texted with XW that day. (Another guy I dated broke up with me to go back to his ex-wife. I'm sensitive to this stuff.) I was wrong to hack his phone, he was wrong to lie, and we got over it and I haven't hacked his phone since.
Well, last night we were being silly in the car. He had, like, an ADHD attack or something and just could not stop talking to take a breath, so I said I was going to time him and how long he could go without talking. So he hands over his cell phone with a stopwatch on it. While this is happening he stops at a gas station for something and leaves me in the car, with the darn phone. What does snoopykoala do? Yeah, I looked. Turns out she's been texting him every day this week and to his credit, he's blowing it off, but Tuesday she asked if he could talk, he said no, she said "Why don't you just tell her it's your grandmother or something?" Now, he said "unfortunately I can't do that" and didn't pull that with me, but I am furious that she would suggest that and that he still talks to her after her suggesting that. I think it shows total disrespect for his relationship (and for me).
So I finally blurt out what I had done last night, I felt guilty and I was p!ssed, and we had a pretty big fight that has carried over to today because he doesn't understand why their frequent communication bothers me and why I think it's inappropriate. He says that their conversations center around this ridiculous (my words) relationship she is trying to have with a kid 6 years younger than she is who has asburgers and the problems that she is having in that "relationship", and when she asks how he is he just says "Everything's going really great!". That's the extent of their stuff supposedly, but I really just feel like its inappropriate for her to be coming to my SO for advice. She has other friends. I'm also angry because he knows about the XBF that went back to his XW and he knows I'm sensitive to that, and he DOESN'T UNDERSTAND MY FEELINGS! Anyway, he told her again today that she needs to stick to 2x a week only and that while we are on vacation he will not be available to her.
Ladies, I need some help! I may be being crazy, but I need you to make me rational. Or, if I am justified, even a little, in not wanting them communicating (a couple times a month, OK. And then peter that back to a couple times a year as time goes on. I can't marry him like this. I've said that, but I don't know if he's heard it.) how to I verbally get him to understand me???
Re: I'm really angry and need advice (long, be patient, sorry)
With no kids involved I don't think there is any *need* to talk on a daily or even weekly basis. I'd be more than pissed on so many levels.
Ditto.
I have a kid with an ex and I don't even talk to him that much. heh.
This! I don't understand why they need to remain that close of friends at all... there is no tie and if she needs relationship advice, she should go to someone else.
He just txted me this: For the past 16 years of my friendship with XW, I offered advice to her and listened to her problems, as I have done for other friends over the course of my life, yes others don't do it as much as she does, but I am used to listening to peoples problems."
My response: For 16 years you took care of her problems. Guess what? She's not your problem anymore and neither are her problems. At this time, me and my problems are your problem.
Hmm...I guess I am in the minority, but I don't see the huge deal. I still keep in contact with most of my exes, not every week, but we talk. In fact, one of my exes introduced DH and I since we were still friends.
Did you all just cut all your exes out of your life when the relationship ended?
So Tasty, So Yummy
They were in a 20+ year relationship and obviously still close after their divorce. If they were communicating on a daily basis when you started a relationship then you should have known then that she was still a part of his life. IMO it's not fair for you to suddenly demand that they cease communicating.
And snooping in his phone was asking for trouble, which you found.
I can understand your sensitivity to the issue, but she's an ex-wife for a reason. They have known each other for a long time and he was a big part of her life for a very long time. I don't see why they can't still talk if you are secure in your relationship. If you aren't that secure in your relationship, then why be in it?
Collin Thayne 10.11.2010
Pagas-- I am actually also a believer in remaining friends with ex's, and am friends with most of mine as well. However, I do not call them and text them all the time, and we may go long periods of time before they may get a text from me that's something like "Hey, what's up, hows it going?" Frankly, since most of them are also on my FB I don't really need to ask them because I see it on my wall. I'm not asking him to cut her off completely.
KrisB-- It was 16 years total (dating, marraige, divorce) and actually, I DIDN'T know they talked daily when we started dating, when I found out and realized I wasn't comfortable with that is when I asked for reduced contact, which he agrees to because he said she "harshes his mellow" (I swear he's not a hippie or on drugs) and "she makes him feel frustrated, like her problems rub off on him". I'm like, "THEN WHY DEAL WITH HER PROBLEMS?"
I agree with Pagas, KrisB, and Ayers. I'm not sure why their talking is a big deal. They have leaned on each other for years. That just doesn't end overnight even if they decided to no longer be married and to move on with other people. They may be friends forever.
As long as you're sure he loves you and is looking to be with you then I'd let it go. he's going to have friends in his life and some might be women.
You have to have faith here. By looking for bad things in your relationship you're going to find it.
I'm secure in the relationship and know he wouldn't go back to her, but I think the frequency is excessive. I do see your point about being an ex for a reason though.
*** Let me just say that if I had posted this on the Starting Over board I would have been massively attacked. Thank you ladies.
IMO, I think there is a difference between keeping in touch and scheduling to talk twice a week with an ex. Not to mention she has expressed that she is not okay with this and he continues to do it without taking into consideration how she feels and who he should really be focused on.
16 years is a long time to be with someone and have someone in your life. I don't think it would be easy to just cut off communication with someone who has been such a large part of your life.
I'm not condoning it, however he is being very transparent about it so I would be encouraged by that.
The woman probably enjoys that it bothers you and needles it on because of it. The less of an issue it is for you the more likely it is to become less of an issue.
As far as your previous relationship, I don't think it is fair to your SO to transfer your insecurities into your new relationship. Just because it happened with someone else does not mean it will happen with him.
Have you ever talked to her or met her? Perhaps instead of automatically thinking she's the enemy, try to talk to her also. Just tell her woman to woman that it makes you a little uncomfortable that she and your SO talk to much so you thought maybe if the 2 of you got to know each other it would make you feel better about the situation.
One of my really good friends is a girl who grew up with DH and who he went to every school dance with and college with. Instead of being jealous of her close relationship with him I embraced it and now she and I are very close. We always joke that I stole the girl who would have married him had I not come into the picture, and he thanks me (jokingly) for taking her off his hands.
You have the same taste in men, perhaps you have other things in common too and you could form a friendship. Or at the very least, if you form your own relationship with her it will help you feel ok about their relationship.
Collin Thayne 10.11.2010
ditto
I think it is just as strange to totally cut off contact. DH doesn't talk to any of his exes, even the one he lived with for years. They could all be dead for all he knows, which I think is so odd. You share a bond with someone for a long time, I don't understand throwing down the gauntlet and ending all contact. We all handle things differently and I don't think you should force your way upon your mate. I was very distrusting due to a cheating ex and I found that only got me into trouble. You have to have faith in your boyfriend and in the relationship you have together. If he wanted to be with his ex, he still would be.
So Tasty, So Yummy
I agree. I don't think he should have to sever all ties (although that would be OK too!), but I would be uncomfortable with her depending on him so much. They are divorced, so I don't think he owes her the courtesy of being her go-to relationsihp advice person.
I need to say that I absolutely heart you all so much right now. Every one of you has made a valid point and I am totally looking at this from both sides. You guys are awesome.
Ayers- she lives in Indiana and the last time she came to town we were just starting out so I did not meet her. I agree that meeting her could ease a lot of my feelings because right now she's kind of like an unknown monster.
I want to reiterate that I AM NOT expecting or wanting him to CUT OFF communication. I don't like that it's "scheduled" (like a date) but at the same time, at least I can predict it, and I don't like the frequency. If she needs to talk about her problems that often she needs a therapist, not my SO.
I also agree with whoever said that she probably would get pleasure out of knowing it bothers me. When SO gave her the boundaries speech he left me completely out of it and said its what HE would prefer and his former therapist agrees. (yes, he asked him).
SO is an AMAZING guy and he loves me to pieces. Why can't i get past THIS??? And I'll add that he talks to an XGF several times a week too and that doesn't bother me at all. She lives in CA now and they were only a summer fling last year, but for whatever reason it doesn't eat at me like this does. Good lord, I need therapy!
Again, I appreciate you guys letting me vent and offering advice and opinions. I really needed y'all today.
sounds like you have talked yourself out of the anger.
if it's not something you can get past or will always supress anger/resentment about . i would move on.
good luck.
I've gotten out all of the anger I have except for the anger I have towards her for suggesting that he lie to me. That's just wrong. And makes me even more resentful of her.
I'm trying to figure out how to get past it or at least not care so much about it because I don't want to move on. Everything else about our relationship is wonderful. Maybe I should focus on that though--that everything else is wonderful. No relationship is PERFECT, right?
I also don't think it is a big deal for them to remain friends and talk. DH still talks to some of his ex-gf's. In fact, an ex-bf of mine gave me some advice recently during my job hunt.
I do think it is strange that they talk on a "schedule." But I think talking to anyone on a schedule would be odd.
What would bother me most is that she tried to get your SO to lie to you. If someone asked DH to lie to me, I would be concerned.
Hopefully you guys can work this out without and move past it, finding a common ground for all three of you.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you. My Blog
I agree. She's been a big part of his life for a long time. Maybe there's no "need" for him to talk to her but it sounds like he still enjoys her company. That's ok. There's nothing inappropriate about that. You can't expect him to stop talking to her just because he's in a relationship with you.
Put yourself in her shoes. Imagine someone you've been close with for 16 years had to stop talking to you because of a new relationship. I bet she doesn't think of him as "your SO," she's probably thinks of him as HER old friend.
Ditto
I mean, quite honestly, I do not think I would stay in a relationship with a man that continuously talks to his ex all the time. I don't have a problem with occasional contact, including facebook, but there's just something not right about all the phone time he gives her.
Whether he does it on an innocent basis or not and while I don't believe that men and women can't be friends, this just seems to be beyond a regular friendship and in an area that could pass a line in the future.
Good luck!
ETA: It is also obvious that she has no respect for you and your relationship with him. I would be PISSED about her suggesting he lie to you!
kreeper nailed it iMO. it is not him that i would be worried about. it is her, who asked him to lie. i would have texted, "why does she have such a problem with us being friends? it is not like either of us wants to get back together." that isnt what she did. she asked him to lie to his current love which is like asking him to choose the ex over the current. that is sketchy to me.
koala, he seems like a great guy but you have to decide if you can trust him and not hold sins of your ex against him, or if you need protect yourself and ask him if he can at least take a breather from her for a while so SHE knows you are the one he chooses and she needs to support that or move on herself. good luck!
- Paula Deen to 104.1 KRBE's Producer Eric 9/17/2011
I would still talk to my DH (heaven forbid) we got divorced. He is my best friend and can talk sense into me like no one else. I would not want him sneaking around talking to me, but I would also be very torn apart if I had to cease contact with him.
They obviously got divorced for some reason, maybe they were just meant to be friends. You shouldn't punish him for that.
I agree that spying on his phone is asking for trouble. He should be able to have private conversations with people, not allowing him to do so will lead to major trust issues down the road.
I'm with Pagas on this one. My ex from HS & college and I are still good friends. Do we talk everyday no. But when big stuff in our lives happens and we need advice we call each other. Just because we don't want to be together doesn't mean we're not great friends and respect the other person's opinion.
I've been with DH for a really long time and he's cool with the fact that ex-bf and I still talk, ex-bf was even at our wedding. Ex-bf has gone through a lot of girlfriends over the years. Some have been okay with me, one loved me b/c I told him flat out that he fvcked it up and she was right, others think I'm the devil - I hated them, immature little twits who can't see that I don't want your man. I had him and I threw him back - happy fishing.
You need to accept this or move on. You keep saying but if only HE or only SHE would do X then I'd be happy. That's not how it works. You only have the power to change yourself and how you feel about things. Take responsibility for how you feel. And it sounds like you feel insecure.
Also regarding the one comment you saw on his phone - you have no idea what their relationship is like. I could text the same thing to ex-bf and he would know that it was a joke or sarcasm. As a third party all text messages sound different without any back ground.
Clearly I'm passionate on this because it annoys the hell out of me when I can't talk to my friend - who's been my friend for twenty years just because some insecure chick he picked up a month ago can't get over herself.
You can make this woman your friend and she'll talk you up to SO. Or you can make an enemy out of her and she tell him all the time how much it sucks that you're so controlling and have him on lock down and how wrong it is you snoop in his phone and he has to hide things because you'll be upset. Up to you.
Actually, I don't think you're as secure in the relationship as you think you are if you're getting this bent out of shape. You trust him... but at some level you don't. By setting ultimatums, you're sort of showing that you don't trust him.
I do think he needs to have more transparency with you. Like, he should tell you about the comment about the lying. And she's been inappropriate, and he should call her on that.
It may also help to meet her. Fear of the unknown can really blow things up.That seems like an awful lot of conversing for divorced people.
I know nothing, but snooping on his phone just makes you look crazy, and I bet money your dude talks to his ex wife about the fights you two have.
I personally wouldn't be into someone who just got divorced and still talks to his ex daily. Seems like there is still a lot there.
Either way, good luck and I hope you find happiness.