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Help me take the power away from MIL...
I have been so frustrated with my MIL since DS was born. Prior to him being born, we got along pretty well. Her biggest problem is that she wants to be too involved, and until DS, this wasn't a big issue most of the time.
Since DS, she can not accept that we want to do things other than the ways she deems normal/appropriate. We have had so many fights with her in the past year and a half. She wants to see DS every weekend (they live 45 minutes away). We were doing that for a while last year (coincidence of events that were taking place), and the first free weekend we had without them in about 2 months, she asked to come over. DH and I said (honestly, nicely and non threatening) that we were looking forward to spending some family time together that weekend, but we could see them the following. This started a huge rift that has lasted until now. MIL cried to DH that "she was family". She stopped asking us to do anything for months. We still made a large effort with them - it's not that we don't want to see them, but give us a bit of breathing room to be a new family.
She has also stated that she wants to be the grandmother that buys DS everything. She has lived up to that - everytime we see them, she has gobs of gifts. DH has asked her repeatedly not to do this. She never listens.
Last fall (I posted about this back then), DH called his mom to talk about some of these things with her. He wanted to talk out some of the arguments that had taken place, and work things out. She cried that she didn't know how to be a grandmother (DS is the first grandchild), and she ended up hanging up on him, because she "couldn't" talk about it all. Things have been touchy since then.
Since then, there have been a million little frustrating things that have happened between us and them. FIL tried to talk to DH at a family wedding in front of DH's other siblings and their dates about how him and MIL feel they don't see DS enough (FWIW, we see them on average every 2 weeks). DH later sent him an email saying he would be happy to talk about the issues, but not in front of everyone else - to which FIL didn't respond, and MIL responded saying "Spare me the details". A week ago, MIL was trying to plan FIL's retirement dinner, and wanted to go out to a super fancy dinner, and include DS at dinner. DH and I told her that if she wanted to do a fancy dinner, it was not in our best interest to bring DS. She ignored us and went about including him in the plans and final dinner count, until I finally told her we got a babysitter for the night. These are small examples - it goes on and on.
None of these things are hills to die on. I know this. However, my frustration has built up over time of her refusing to listen to us about things, and them sticking their heads in the sand whenever DH tries to talk out and resolve whatever issue is at hand.
Now, I'm at the point where I hate being around her. Everything she does make my spine go up. I know I'm being unfair in a way, because it seems impossible for me to give her a chance. When I do, there's always something else she doesn't listen to, or regard. I read on here all the time about giving too much power to the person bothering you - I know that's what's happening here, and why I am so angered by her all the time. But, how can I take the power away from her? I've tried making the conscious choice to not be bothered by her, but then we're around her, and my panties get in a ruffle immediately.
Any suggestions or advice?
Re: Help me take the power away from MIL...
You are going to have to adjust your expectations that she's going to be more of a problem than a help. She wants what she wants and she's not afraid to use guilt, tears and anger to get her way. You're feeling manipulated, that's what's got you so touchy.
Once you give yourself permission to upset her (and it seems like you are) and shorten your social visits when she annoys you, she'll feel less powerful. Right now, you are dancing around her and that's exhausting. You have to admit that you can't meet her demands and that's okay.
Livinitup has excellent advice. My only thing to add is that it seems being nice to her isn't working for you guys. She just might be one of those people who you give an inch she will take a mile. With people like that being nice and sugar coating doesn't work. You have to be blunt and not discuss details with her. For example with the fancy dinner you should have just said, " Nope that won't work for us, we will find a baby sitter." Then when she asks why it won't work you simply say " Mom, it's just not going to work and I am not going to discuss this anymore."
Oh and seeing them every weekend or every other weekend is ridiculous.
Regarding the visits, your H just needs to be firm that it's not a good time. And stick with that. If she's crying on the phone, he needs to say, "Mom, you're clearly too upset to talk about this right now. Let's talk again later once you've calmed down. Love you, bye!" Don't answer the door and ignore the phone if necessary.
Regarding her gifts to your son - if you've asked her to stop and she still insists, then maybe suggest that instead of bombarding him with toys she contribute to a college fund for him or buy him savings bonds. Or donate the toys to a children's charity in his honor so that other kids can be as fortunate as he is. If she keeps buying him toys, then donate them to a worthy charity yourself.
Everything else ... I agree with you that it's nothing big but it must still be frustrating. I can sympathize with you on having a relative who just flat-out does not listen to what you say. I'm sure most people have someone in their life like this.
She's not going to change. Nothing you say or do will make her change. So as unfair as it feels that YOU are the one who needs to adapt, that's just what you have to do. Look for the silver lining - she loves your son and wants to be a good grandmother. She has good intentions. You and your H just need to set boundaries with her.
Sitting her down and saying flat-out, "The boundaries are XYZ" obviously does not work with her. So you need to show her in actions what you find acceptable. Continue telling her it's not a good time to visit. Ignore her when she cries. Carry on with your plans - if you tell her that you're not bringing your son to a fancy dinner and she makes a reservation for him anyway, just show up without your son as planned. If she gets upset, that's her own fault for not listening. Just shrug and say, "We told you from the beginning that we weren't bringing him" and then enjoy your dinner and ignore her. If she and FIL say that they don't spend enough time with him, just say, "We're glad that you love him so much, but we need our own family time as well. We're happy with the schedule the way it is" and then don't discuss it further.
I know it sounds harsh, but if you have to be blunt, I see nothing wrong with you saying to your MIL, "Listen, you raised your child. DS is MY child to raise."
I think a number of grandparents believe they can do all the "fun" things with their grandchildren. That the hard work they put into raising their children is different than having fun and spoiling their grandchildren. And I agree with what's already been suggested in this post and that boundaries have to be set up.
Your interactions with your MIL sound a lot like mine (expect we don't yet have a kid). My advice - interacting with a manipulative personality requires a lot of boundary setting and consequences. Like another response mentioned, give her your answer and then stop discussing.
My experience is that it gets worse before it gets better. The guilting, crying, yelling, and other unpleasant behavior eventually go away if you can stick it out. Reminds me a lot of teaching high school kids (which I did for 10 years) - they think they can wear you out and get what they want. You have to prove that you will not give in - it's a battle of wills. Which in my experience is exhausting. Hence the boundary setting. You set a boundary, stick to it, and do your best to not let the other person's bad behavior infringe on your tranquility. Easier said then done.
DH has actually done a good job of putting them in their place, but they are always still upset at the outcome. When FIL brought up not seeing DS enough at the wedding in front of other family members, DH told him it wasn't the time or place to talk about it, and then when he emailed him about it later, FIL never responded.
We do shut them down on the regular. Like, for the FIL retirement dinner, once we realized MIL was ignoring us that DS wouldn't be attending, I just wrote back "My brother will be babysitting DS, so the final count will be 7, not 8."
Two weekends ago, MIL and FIL came over. MIL, of course, brought new toys for DS, and a large bag of new fall clothes. She told me "there is a bag from Carter's over on the couch for DS." I said a quick "Thanks", but was on my way out, so didn't look through the bag then. Last weekend, FIL ripped into DH in front of his other siblings again about how we didn't thank MIL for the clothes, and she spent over $100 on them. It's ridiculous. We didn't give MIL the mushy gushy thank you, for something we've asked her not to do, and she's upset.
I think this would be hard to do in the moment, but we will try this next time. It does sounds like a better way to deflect us having hurt feelings, and it turns a potential problem situation into a positive one.
Yup, they really haven't given you any other choice.
This is great advice. Kill them w/kindess. People like your IL's love drama and live to argue. My IL's are exactly like this. I can bet that MIL says over 80% of the things she does to DH & I just for a reaction. Don't give them one!
It seems hard & will take some getting used to, but it's much more fun to play innocent & aloof to their sneer comments...it will frustrate them beyond belief that no matter what they say/do, they cannot get a rise out of you both.
I also agree to distance yourselves. With little, snide comments, sure you can play nicey nicey, but if they do overstep & interfere w/your parenting - then it's time to shut them down. Don't beat around the bush w/that. Condition their behavior to know that when they behave like that, the consequence will be solitude.
GL! They sound like real pieces of work.
This.
"I'm sorry mom and dad. Whenever you visit, there are arguments, tears and hurt feelings. Until that is no longer the case, we will have to stop our regular visits."
This sounds like she was making fun of her mom, NOT you guys. Her mom has probably been like this towards her also at times in her life and she knows she is a bit off balance/dramatic/however you want to describe her.
good luck. a lot of good advice on here for you.
Ditto this. Don't allow your bad relationship with MIL poison your relationship with SIL. Either just say "no, no family time tonight." or ask "what do you mean by that?" (or, well, you ARE family!).
I had to add to this. What was the comment and sarcasm meant to convey??? Was se backing-up your MIL with a snide remark, or you?
Personally, the sister looses a great deal of credibilty if she's a mom buckling under her mother's demand ... and extending that to you guys, too.
What the hell did she mean? WHO was she being sarcastic to?? - You or her mother?
I had to add to this. What was the comment and sarcasm meant to convey??? Was se backing-up your MIL with a snide remark, or you?
Personally, the sister looses a great deal of credibilty if she's a mom buckling under her mother's demand ... and extending that to you guys, too.
What the hell did she mean? WHO was she being sarcastic to?? - You or her mother?
You already HAVE the power and everyone knows that. You're the child's mother. She's not trying to "overpower" you, she's merely trying to be relevant to your lives...unfortunately for her, she doesn't do it in a way that you understand or appreciate. Most of my friends and all of my sisters complain that their MILs are not involved enough...so it's hard for me to wrap my mind around your issue.
So your MIL is hands-on, enthusiastic and overzealous, so what? Many people have parents and in-laws who don't bother to spend as much time with their grandkids as your MIL wants to spend HER grandson. Trust me, it'd be worse to feel like she didn't care, or that she wouldn't bother to cry on the phone to your husband.
If she oversteps bounds, just politely but firmly point it out and move on, don't sit and ruminate. You have hurt her feelings and I can see why. When my son grows up I pray that he will find a good woman who will allow us to be a family and not focus on trying to assert her territorial "power" in our family dynamics. I hope the same for you, too, I hope your daughter-in-law never writes this about you: "...it seems impossible for me to give her a chance..."
Try to show some compassion. It isn't a competition.
I wasn't around when she said this, but DH took it to mean she was making fun of us, kind of saying "Oh, are you SURE you have time to have me over, since you've made a fuss with MIL in the past about having family time?" We know MIL has told SIL what's been going on between us and them for the past year and a half (even though she refuses to talk to us about it), and then FIL brings up his arguments with DH in front of SIL, so she gets the gist of what's going on. Maybe we're being cynical to view SIL's comment toward us, but that was my first impression too when DH told me about it.
I agree, she did loose a great deal of credibility with this comment. It was sad too that she involved herself for no reason - we enjoy hanging out with her for the most part. She also never picked the ball back up to say "Friday does or doesn't work for me!" She just wrote off the whole invitation after mocking DH. At least, that's how we took it.
Trust me, I have thought about this many times. I agree, which is why I said in my OP that I know that many times I'm not being fair to her. I am trying, which is why I want to give the power back to myself by being able to brush off the stupid stuff that's going on. Also why I said I know these are all not hills to die on. I just can't shake the constant frustration I have with her, due to her not ever listening to us, and shoving her head in the sand when we try to resolve issues where there are obvious hurt feelings on both sides. I don't want to storm around angry all the time - it's exhausting. But, it's consuming me with her right now to where I don't want to be around her, and I was hoping (and got) advice on how I can change the way I'm feeling inside.
Bingo. Bingo bingo bingo. OP, I can relate wholeheartedly... my MIL was your typical MIL from hell, or so it seemed, for a looong time. I posted a few times on here about her. Granted, she definitely needed to learn her boundaries - IL's were still trying to make financial decisions for DH well past his college graduation, and then assuming they could spend the night whenever they pleased regardless of our previously made plans. But after we got through that part, I can say I still had reservations/a hard time trusting her because of everything in the past... kind of like your comment "it seems impossible for me to give her a chance."
But after the birth of my DD, I did give her a chance. There was no monumental talk or anything, no one visit that changed everything. But as much as I could have used my DD to assert my "power", I ended up doing the opposite. I freely hand my DD over to her when we see her, and give her the opportunity to do the little things like feeding DD or pushing the stroller if we're out somewhere. When we visit, I freely join in other activities or outings to give her a chance to have one-on-one time with DD, which I know she loves. I was nervous the first time she babysat, but it was like ripping a band-aid off. I just did it. And it was fine. I also used to avoid situations where it was just me and her, because I didn't know what to talk about. Now I'm actively trying to strike up conversations, even though it can still be awkward because we're into vastly different things.
And speaking of visiting, one of the major major issues we had was that she knew I was very allergic to cats and went out and got two (that we know of), plus 80-some odd birds that don't help the allergy situation. We had to put our foot down on going to their house because of that - I would get sick for a week after visiting...sinus infections, total nose blockage, all that fun. Once she realized we were serious, she and FIL went and got a ton of air purifiers to run around the house. Now I'm meeting them halfway and doing everything in my power to help me be able to visit there, which means a week buildup of Allegra and taking it a few days after we're back. We're actually going there for the second straight weekend tomorrow (they live three hours away).
Basically, I've found that to retain some control, you've got to give up some control. It sounds like your MIL is sort of like mine - good intentions, but can have a real grating way of showing it.
Give your MIL a chance. You might think she's beyond help at this point, but what I posted here about my MIL is only the tip of the iceberg. It was BAD. Like, I thought there was going to be a cutoff bad. But I can honestly say I enjoy visiting with my in-laws now. Pick a few boundaries as your hills to die on...after that, loosen up and appreciate the fact that she loves your son (and you and YH as well).
Also, when I do have a DIL in the future, I will listen to her (and DS) when they tell me expectations/preferences regarding their kids, wedding, life, etc. I have always believed that this is not just a war against MIL - it's up to DH and I to clearly communicate if there is a boundary to be set or a difference in expectations (ie, we can't see them every weekend, but we will certainly still make time for them). I would never expect her to be a mind reader and just KNOW what we want, and get mad at her if that didn't happen.
In the future with DS and DIL, of course I won't love all their preferences and expectations, and some of them will hurt my feelings. But, I will make an effort to talk to them, or adjust. I will not just go about my business as though what they said doesn't matter to me, just continue to do things my way, and refuse to deal with the issues this behavior causes.
I think your words need to have a little more bite.
You've asked her not to bring over clothes and toys. Well, tell her that your house is getting overcrowded with all the stuff, and advise that next time she brings over a gift, you'll start donating the gifts to charity so other boys and girls can be as blessed as your DS. I actually wouldn't mind the clothes as much, since clothes are a necessary item and don't take up all the space in the living areas. And then follow through. Once she sees that you actually end up donating the items, she'll stop. And then if she argues, you tell her that you told her you were going to do that, and she didn't listen to you.
I do feel like her heart is mostly in the right place. After all, it's clear that she's crazy about your DS and she gets a lot of enjoyment out of buying him presents and spending time with him. But, she'll end up shooting herself in the foot by continuing this behavior because you won't want her around.
As for family time, just say "we're not up for visitors this weekend" and leave it at that.
You got along in the past, so try to recapture some of that. Be friendly. Yes, she's got some unrealistic expectations now, but honestly if you and DH both have your backs up, it's just going to get worse. Ask her if she spent every weekend with her MIL when she was a new mom. If she brings up "family time" again, tell her it was a poor choice of words (because she is totally right, she is family too) and that what you want is for you and DH to have some one-on-one time with DS because you're always working or whatever.
Does MIL work? If not, can she be trusted to drive DS in a properly buckled carseat? Maybe she could pick him up from daycare after nap time once a week and bring him back to your house to play. It would be a time that she could count on seeing him and you wouldn't be spending as much time with her. Or maybe have DS spend the night there the first Friday every month so you can have a date night and she gets grandbaby time. You and DH could spend some time with her on Saturday when you pick him up and then take the other weekends to be by yourselves.
I just think that having her visits on a regular schedule would help her feel secure that she gets to see your DS a lot and help you feel that you have plenty of time to yourselves.
Oh, and for the clothes... just tell her you're set for the season/the size, whatever. And then just take the extras and pass them on. My MIL continues to buy clothes for DH, SS, DD and DS... even though DH and SS don't like her choices and DD is swimming in clothes because she gets hand me downs from twins. So we just hold on to them for a bit and then pass them down. I think you're making too big of deal of it.