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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Another post about fetuses.
I completely agree. I said above that I don't think it will ever happen because it's just not possible to put laws, boundaries, whatever it is on something like this. Everything in a circumstance like this is case by case.
I don't agree to forcing a woman to carry to term either, but like I said I just wish there was a way for men to have more rights and I feel more women would take responsibility for their actions (especially if there is a willing, capable father)
H and I actively TTA in every way, but If we were to get pregnant we'd keep it. Maybe it's different because we're married? I don't know.
By forcing an unwanted pregancy on someone???? really. really?? I would think that for some women, having an abortion would be more responsible than having a baby. And they are dealing with the consequences.
I highly doubt there are all that many women "using abortion as birth control" Its not all happy and puppies and rainbows. I have not met one person who thought that was an easy choice. Its certainly not easier than a condom or the pill.
your argument is coming off as extremely misogynistic, and like we're back in the 50s especially for someone saying they are pro choice.
I changed my name
I'm actually pro-choice for the most part. And unfortunately I've known probably 4 or 5 women that do the above.
I by NO means think abortion is the most selfish thing possible and I actually do agree with you guys that things shouldn't change because there is NO way to make those boundaries of who has what rights. You're completely right when you can't give men -some- of the rights.
The wishful thinking in me just wishes there was a way.
No, it's not different because you're married. I know married people who do not want children and absolutely would terminate. I know married people who can't afford a baby and would terminate. Some marriages are on shaky ground without the stress of a baby, so those women abort to avoid being tied to a man for the rest of their life.
I've said that a woman shouldn't have to be forced.. multiple times. And I have also said that for the most part I agree with everyones arguments. They're extremely valid points.
Like I said the wishful thinking in me wishes there was a way the man could have more rights in this matter, but it's just not possible. I completely feel for this guy who begged her not to.
So you're pro choice, except for those 4 or 5 women who get them more frequently than you'd prefer. check.
Would you really rather those 4 or 5 women have those babies?
I agree with your sentiments of finding a way to give dudes more pregnancy responsibility. But until we can get some Arnold in "Junior" type technology, this is what we have. The woman bears the complete responsibility
I changed my name
When he can grow the fetus inside his body, and they can just transfer it to him, fine. Pregnancy is life changing, and no woman should be forced to put her body through that because a man wants her to. If a woman has no say over her body, what else does that authorize?
Not entirely, but personally I haven't met any married couples (that I know) that have aborted.
I should have explained it better at the beginning, I don't think women should be forced. I don't think men should have all the rights, I think women should have the choice, but I also wish that men had more rights in stuff like this. Jilly said it best that it's not going to happen until some extreme medical technology is invented and thats just how it is.
well, not to be a b*tch, but you're saying conflicting things, at least it seems that way to me
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I know a few
ETA you probably do you, they just dont probably go about yelling about their uterian choices to you
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I can see how you think that..
I do still feel women (and men) should take more responsibility when they sleep with someone (I also feel the same with men, if they want to abort but the woman doesn't), but how they would do that without being forced Idk? I said that I have no idea how any of this would work, but I do wish there was a way for men to have more rights in things like this.
I have agreed with you (and others) on more than one occasion that it's not going to happen and probably with good reason because there is no possible way to put boundaries on who has what rights and the best thing is probably for women to have 'all the rights', but it doesn't change the fact that I wish there was a way that men could have more of a choice in the matter.
I never said there weren't married couples, just none that I know of (which I also stated above).
Can I ask why getting an abortion is not taking responsibility?
For real. I dont understand the REAL logic behind that senitment. Abortion is not an easy choice. Its extremely emotional decision, and those I know who have had one deal with it for a long time, some for years and years. Its arguably not "easier"
To me, it would be much less responsible to have a kid you didnt want, neglect or otherwise abuse them, possibly resent them for being born at all (which in turn will likely cause the kid emotional pain), all under the premise of "taking responsibility"
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I can see that.
I honestly don't know anyone that has gotten an abortion (again that I know of) besides those 4 or 5 women.
thats a deflection, not an answer to my question. I am honestly curious. This argument just seems like something to say when these things come up. People need to take responsibility! they need bootstraps!
eta: I am really not trying to be a snaatchh or flame you, I really would like to understand the argument.
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I really don't know what you want me to say. It's just how I feel/what I think. It's such a grey area that there is no "this is right, this is wrong" answer. I'm sure in a year my opinion will change.
Maybe because the only people I know to have abortion used it in such an irresponsible way that I for whatever reason feel it's not taking responsibility of their actions.
I also agree that an abortion would be better than a child being born to parents that don't want it, but then I think why not adoption? I honestly don't know what the 'right thing is'..
I didnt have anything in mind for you to say in particular. I just wanted to hear the logic behind your arguments.
I changed my name
I always have more to say. Adoption isn't usually an option for women in abusive situations who don't want the baby. This is exactly why my sister and I researched Utah adoption laws. My sister is a dumb teenager, was being abused by the guy she loved soooo much. Fortunately, they broke up while she was early in the second trimester. Her options were abortion or having the baby and praying he signs off on adoption papers, or hoping he doesn't spend the next 18 years trying to get custody. One of those options is better than the others.
Also, my dad was abandoned as a child. His mother dropped him off at a hospital and never came back. Have you ever seen first hand what that does to a person? I lived with it.
I think it's safe to say, though, that not everyone who goes through that experience will react to it the same way your dad has. Some people have exactly the opposite reaction. They strive to be the loving and nurturing parent that they never had.
FFS, seriously? You are stretching big time to ram your opinion down someone's throat.
As far as the "I don't think women should be forced to carry to term" and "but men should still have rights"... there is no possible way to get those two in the same world until men can carry a pregnancy. This isn't a "well, I haven't thought of the right solution yet." Until the rules of biology change, there will never ever be a compromise between men having rights and women having bodily autonomy.
Adoption is no walk in the park, in the best circumstances, and it still forces a woman to be pregnant against her will if that's not the route she wants. No one, ever, regardless how irresponsible or slutty slut slut they are should ever have to act as an incubator b/c a law or a man requires her to.
The reality is that the woman will shoulder a greater share of the responsibility of caring for the child. Beyond the pregnancy aspect, if the parents do not live together, the father may not have the child overnight until s/he is at least twelve months old (especially if the baby is breastfed), if not older. Having the child, especially as a single woman, will create a greater burden for her than it will for him--even under good circumstances.
I feel badly for the OP's friend. But, IMO, as a man who impregnated a woman he was not in a LTR with, he has few rights. How would he have felt if he had wanted her to abort, but she chose not to and then took him to court for child support? By no means am I a prude, but it is really sad that so many adults put themselves in the position that allows someone else to make such huge life decisions for them.
Yes, seriously. There are absolutely risks associated with anesthesia in childbirth, just like anesthesia carries risks in any other medical procedure. http://mobile.journals.lww.com/anesthesiology/_layouts/oaks.journals.mobile/articleviewer.aspx?year=1997&issue=02000&article=00002. The death rate is decreasing, but it is absolutely still a risk.
Why did she even say anything if she wasn't going to give him a say in the matter?
As far as men not being able to force a woman into an abortion.... I disagree. Men have a lot to do with many abortions. They don't want the responsibility of fatherhood so they bully and threaten and coerce women into abortions. What is a woman going to do if the father absolutely won't support her any way? I'm a single mom during deployment and this SUCKS.... but at least I have financial support and a husband who is returning.
Personhood is a sticky subject. Should Scott Peterson have gotten off scott-free (no pun intended) b/c the baby Lacie was carrying wasn't a "person" and "had no rights?"