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can we talk school closings?
Because it is killing my facebook feed and since I am in DC I want your perspectives please.
I am kind of torn- I went to Philadelphia Catholic schools and I do value my educational experience there but from a business standpoint I completely understand that it is not sustainable in the current model. The way they chose to implement the changes that they make will be critical.
My main gripes about the way it is going down are the following:
- the publicity, instability, and upheaval would make it more difficult for me to send my child to an Archdiocesan school. I would probably look to a private Catholic school over the AD schools at this point. Why would I want to deal with uncertainty in my kids' education if I don't have to?
- if the schools are closing/combining and reducing overhead and expenses; will the parents see a benefit from this? If for nothing other than retention purposes, lowering the tuition (which should be feasible if the above are true) would be a big thing for most parents. If all of this pain is to make education more sustainable then show me the money.
- will there still be single sex Archdiocesan high schools? I will be disappointed if not. The single sex part of my education was probably a greater impact to my life than the Catholic part.
- and lastly, more of a rant, how many of the people who are complaining on fb are actually still supporting their high school or local parish? DH and I are still church-goers and we still write checks to our high schools because we did value our experience enough to do that. I can tell you that at I sincerely doubt 1/2 of the people complaning did anything to support these schools before the closings became big news and will likely not do anything other than be vocal on social media about the closings. boo to them.
Re: can we talk school closings?
I am pretty sure this topic is what will cause me to quit Facebook.
I have a number of feeling, which go in a number of directions.
First, on many levels I agree with Ering. In many cases, the system does not work, is bleeding money, and frankly most Catholic school parents I know think because they pay what is frankly a nominal tuition in the private school world, that is where their involvement can end. The regional school system does work -- its working well in Conshohocken, Manayunk, Port Richmond and other places.
However, I also feel that Catholic schools are not a business -- they are a tax exempt non-profit institution with a specific mission. They are essentially ignoring that mission -- the church is abandoning the inner city, which is disgraceful. Don't have the brass ones to ask me for money on Sunday to support a mission to open a Catholic school in Africa, and then turn around and leave kids in North Philly -- the same kids who lack parental involvement, who need additional educational options -- high and dry. You can not argue you are operating like a business when by your very definition you are not a business.
And finally, the closing system has been flawed for sooo long. For example, you already closed Dougherty and North, now you are probably closing Little Flower. Where the hell exactly do kids in those areas now go to Catholic high school? The burden of travel is not one most of those families can undertake. Sure, there was no need for three high schools there, but there was certainly a need for one. There seems to have been zero long term planning in most cases. Like I said, regional schools are great -- but the diocese is leaving some of the neediest areas without even that.
So in short, I think most people are whiners, but that there is a very really segment of under served children who the diocese is screwing over, and I think they will burn in hell for it at the end of the day.
Full disclosure: I was not a product of the AD schools, but my parents were, and have supported those schools for many years.
I remember the closure of St. James High School when I was in high school. Those men either went to co-ed O'Hara or were bussed up to all-boys Bonner. Not what you would consider "local" options.
My mom's West Philly parish of Transfiguration slowly died out and/or moved away when families fled the cities to move to the suburbs. The school closed and the parish still operated until 2000, when it merged with St. Carthage, to become St. Cyprian (which closed at the end of 2011 school year). The Transfiguration sanctuary sat vacant, commonly left with debris and dumped bags, until 2010 (+/-), when it was demolished.
These closed parishes and schools add even more blighted properties to neighborhoods that are in dire situations. I agree with Amy's point--the church is neglecting and ignoring the problems in their own backyard, but asking parishioners to fund schools in other countries is unacceptable.
My dad and I talked about this last night and he believes both his elementary school and high school will be closed completely.
as much as I hate St. Joe's Prep (purely personal and rivalry reasons) I think that the Jesuits are the ONLY group fulfilling this mission in the Philadelphia area. Both the Gesu school and when Cristo Rey opens are/will be run by the Jesuits and not the AD. This is completely disgraceful to me.
and to erburs point- I was at Prendie a few years after St. James closed. Let's just say that the transition to Bonner did not go smoothly without taking the distance and transportation into consideration.
This. Sorry, but $4000 a year to send your kid to a non-public school is a bargain. Trust me -- parents in most private schools are paying 3x that PLUS making philanthropic contributions to keep the lights on.
agreed h-wain..agreed.
I'm not Catholic and went to public school, so this is all quite out of my wheelhouse. I think it's laughable if anyone thinks AoP will lower tuition as a result of this. They will pay the same tuition, if not higher, for bigger classes and more stressed teachers.
My cousin's daughter is a junior at Prendie and it looks like from a Fox29 report that both Prendie and Bonner will close, not combine as they hoped. Those are both big schools without enrollment problems. Where will all the kids go? O'Hara can't possibly hold them all. I just don't understand the logistics there.
Did this all just become news in the last few days/week? I feel like I didn't hear about this at all and now it's all everyone is talking about.
From the business model perspective, I can understand where the archdiocese is coming from with the grade schools. They are owned and maintained by the individual parishes. With church attendance and parish sizes decreasing, I can see where it may be better for regional schools at the elementary level that would be run by the archdiocese. Many of these school buildings are old and in need of much repair, and the parishes simply cannot foot the bill. In this economy, it is also very hard to fundraise. However, does this actually mean lower tuition bills? Does this mean a form of stability for the children that they can actually go from Pre-K to 8 at the same school? I also agree with pp about church contributions. The ones who complain are the ones who probably haven't set foot in church, let alone dropped a check in the collection basket, for years. DH and I contribute to our parish and I attend mass weekly.
I also think it should be mandatory for the school students to go to mass every Sunday with their families. Empty masses at churches where there is a parish school is simply insane.
Hopefully, the archdiocese is not just looking at which properties are the most valuable to unload once a school is closed and makes educated decisions that are in the best interest of the most important people involved here- the kids.
With regard to the high schools, I think many students will be inconvenineced. I saw a stat last night that Neumann-Goretti's enrollment dropped 50% in 10 years. If they were to close that school, for example, would schools like Roman and Hallahan be able to handle the extra students? What other options are there for students serviced by N-G? It doesn't leave many options for Catholic education geographically speaking. The high school closures are going to hit the hardest. I also believe the single sex schools are sadly being phased out.
I also agree with the raising money for foreign lands. While this is a nice gesture, maybe the church needs to focus more on its neighborhoods.
This will definetly be interesting.
The Augustinians stopped operating Bonner a year or two ago, and I think their alumni support (and legacy student enrollment) took a serious hit as a result of this.
My dad used to tell me that the Augustinians are autonomous and report directly to Rome. By answering to Rome, they were able to avoid much of the politics of an Archdiocese. Once the order left, that autonomy was gone.
ering, I remember the time of the merge well. I am a UDHS girl, but my local friends that lived in Wm Penn SD went to Prendie and Bonner ('95 and '96 classes). My parents considered Prendie for me, but is was not a good fit for me at the time.
Even as an outsider, I remember some of the stories after the merger. I can only imagine the first hand view of conflicts and resentments that it caused. If I remember correctly, boys that went to St. James for more than 2 years were able to get St. James diplomas when they graduated from Bonner.
eta: and the sprawl in the NW suburbs has not helped the problem of declining enrollment. Some parish schools are bursting out that way. St. Basil Parish (estab 1965) constructed a huge church in the last 3 or 4 years to accommodate the larger population of parishioners. Pope John Paul is a brand new high school that opened in the fall of 2010 out in Limerick. I know it received students from the closure of St. Pius (Pottstown), and I'm sure there are other high school areas that closed (like Kennedy-Kendrick) that are sending students out that way.
From my Facespace page:
"Text from inside mtg: Little Flower & St. Huberts CLOSED. Ryan becomes N-east Regional H.S. #closingschools"
I do feel really bad for the current students as well as all those teachers and staff who will beome jobless.
Now is when I will go off on my other tangent -- how the AoP has a long track record of undervaluing female education.
Someone on my FB feed posted that Prendie and Bonner are closing and O'Hara will become Delco Catholic. Not sure how true or not true that is. I heard nothing official will be released until 4pm today.
This makes me sad. I value my Catholic education, which was 1st grade through HS, 4 years of Jesuit college and 2 years of grad school. It's more of a shame for the inner-city though. Ugh - all those kids will have little to no options for a decent local education.
First these are just suggestions. Not final whose closing list will be released tonight just who is recommended to close.
White flight is to blame. If I see one more person who no longer lives in Philadelphia pissing and moaning their childhood school is closing my mind is going to bust open.
There are too many schools. That's for sure. They are antiquated. The AD needs to look at working regional models not just take a hatchet. I think a longer study would have helped.
Ps I love the Jesuits and Christian brothers. Bottom line.
Bing, bang, BOOM! ::sigh:: Such a disgrace.
It is infuriating, because people always say "Well Judge has all of these involved parents/alumni/blah/blah".
Um, all of those guys have wives, mothers and sisters. All of them. They just direct the resources to the boys instead of the girls.
Whatever. I am getting altitude sickness up here on my "I went to private school and my kid is going top public school" high horse.
Other things that p!ss me off right now:
The Neshaminy School District is meeting at 3:00 today to determine if they are striking starting on Monday. We are one of (if not THE) higest paid school districts in this state and even really high in this entire country. They are striking because they want more, more and MORE! It makes me sick because there are pepole like these Philly teachers who at the end of today, will find themselves jobless due to these closings. It makes me so mad that I have teachers in my district who are so caught up in greed while there are teachers out there who would give their left arm for a high paying job in the Neshaminy School District.
Sorry, the NSD stuff doesn't really relate to the Philly stuff but I needed to get that off my chest.
I PPH the Jesuits. I would probably go to mass again if Jesuit parishes existed (besides Old St Joseph's). I got more out of church in my 4 years of college than I did the rest of my church-going life combined.
You mean like the teachers in Chester-Upland who are currently working without pay to keep the school open?
Philly.com is live tweeting the announcements (when made public): http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/school_files/Tweets-on-the-Catholic-school-closings.html?cmpid=125219969
One of the recent tweets from the reporter is that Bonner will allow press into the 12:30pm assembly with students.
And mr erbur is a product of the Christian Brothers--he loves them! I had a really nice time with the handful of them I met at his reunion.
See, "white flight" to me is a cop out.
If there is one dirt poor black kid in Kensington who wants to go to Catholic school, they are responsible for educating that kid. End stop. The mission isn't "We educate kids in the catholic faith, as long as they can pay us."
Devils advocate. Most of those kids aren't catholic? Are they really failing at the mission?
Dude. I'll need 0602 to step in here for Little Flower's alumni associate (which she said is crazy awesome). I can speak to Basil's alumni association and it is awesome as well. There is A LOT of involvement and they are a huge part of keeping that school running and thriving. Still to this day there is a waiting list to get in and there have been expansion plans in the works for the last couple years. I believe Little Flower has an amazing alumni association backing them up but it's a real shame to pretty much see that the AoP doesn't give a crap about female education, as you said. If Huberts AND LF both do *officially* close, I give a big F-you to the AoP.
Maybe the difference here is the AoP. Basil's is not associated with the AoP and they seem to be doing something right and have been for years. Amy or Shannon, you could tell me... Naz isn't an AoP school, correct? Mabe they are... but anyway, will this leave Naz as the only all girls private Catholic HS in Philadelphia? I can't keep up.
No, Hallahan.
ah, yes! I don't know how I forgot that considering I have a few girlfriends that went there. My memory is going.
Hubert's (my alma mater) is closing
(