Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Travel issues w/Brother & SIL
I have one sibling, my older brother. He, my SIL & our 2yr old neice live 3hrs away from DH, myself & the majority of our family. Since residing out-of-town, over the years, we have seen them less & less. When neice was approaching her 1st birthday, SIL mentioned to me (in email) that they would not be traveling anymore for Christmas. SIL's family is 2 hrs from them. Thanksgivings are rotated - we see them one year & then SIL's side sees them the next. Last year was our "turn" for Thanksgiving, so they came in 2x.
Get together's/holidays include my extended family consisting of my cousins, their spouses & kids and my Aunt & Uncle. Each of my cousins but one, live out-of-town as well. The furthest one lives 6 hrs away. Each of them make their visits in frequently. They all have children. My SIL is the only wife in the family that is a SAHM. I realize I am making comparisons here, but it upsets me that we don't see my brother & his family more.
DH & I try to go see them as much as we're able to. We usually travel to them at least 4x a year. We would go see them more, but, we have a dog that needs to be watched while we're gone, so we have to find accomodations for her. My brother & SIL have openly said that we are not to bring her on visits. This is understandable, as they are not "animal people".
DH gets very frustrated because he feels that since they were the ones that moved "away", that they should do the bulk of traveling. Weekends are our only time to see other friends/family, run errands, household chores, etc. We both work full time & although we don't have children yet, he wonders what the scenario will be like once we do. He doesn't think it's very fair to assume we will just pack up our kids & make the trip when it won't be reciprocated. I agree.
I see my brother slipping away more & more. They have begun their own traditions, and I think that's appropriate & wonderful, but I just wish he could balance that more with the rest of his family. Also, at the risk of being "blood is thicker", I feel that my SIL discourages these trips. She gets inconvenienced easily & always seems to find a reason or excuse for them not come in. I feel that my brother just appeases her to not cause waves.
My question, without stepping on anyone's toes & certainly not effecting their marriage - is there an appropriate way to open this for discussion to my brother? I would just like to tell him where I am coming from & how I'm worried that if these trips aren't made to be ( a little) more of a priority in his life, that our relationship (+ also relationship w/neice) will become more distant.
A little back story as to why this has effected me in the way it has....neither my brother or I have seen or spoken to our Mother in 10+ yrs. Our Father resides in the same city as DH & I. He is 60 and is able (now) to travel to my brother about 3-4x a year, but I worry what will happen as he grows older. When my Mother left my family, it tore a piece out of it. For this reason alone, I feel partially like I have inherited the matriarch role & I try to keep the family together. I can't help it. I just don't want to lose anymore family.
Advice welcome - TIA.
Re: Travel issues w/Brother & SIL
All I can really suggest is just talking to your brother about how you miss him, you wish you saw him more, the distance sucks... and that's about it.
I would NOT go into how you think SIL is "keeping" him from you. In the end, this is JUST as much about him as it is her. HE has a choice and a say in all of this. And he's choosing to agree w/ his wife - for whatever reasons.
And he may simply not have the strong feelings you do about "family". It sucks for you, but you can't force him to feel that way if he doesn't. A part of this might be about you accepting that this is who he is, and you need to adjust your behavior towards it in a way that doesn't make you mad at him.
As for visiting... I agree w/ your DH in being frustrated that they don't reciprocate. But I don't agree w/ the concept that "They moved, the burden is on them to travel". In this day and age, I think that's an unfair expectation to place on people.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Thank you, ECB! I always value your advice/thoughts.
I agree to not discuss my SIL...that would just open a can and not be a productive convo. I will keep the topic solely on missing seeing them & wish we could get together more, etc.
I think DH's way of thinking is more in the direction of, why do we do the majority of traveling over them when they are the ones who created the distance --not that they should do all of the traveling. I just think there needs to be more balance. If DH & I don't go to them, we barely see them.
In thinking about this more... putting pressure on them might make them react exactly opposite of how you want. You KNOW he's going to talk to his wife. If you go into this telling him he needs to make coming home a priority, etc, I can see his wife getting her hackles up and being even more defiant, and... you might find that your trips to see them are no longer welcome.
Another tact to take is to simply go about life, see family, etc. Take pictures, have a good time - then send him pics of the family w/ a note about "Miss you! Wish you could be here.....".
In time, he may start to realize what he's missing and that the closeness that you and the local family has - he's missing out on. And even w/o that - it might simply be something that in time, he realizes "I really want my DD to grow up knowing her family and (if/when you have kids) her cousins".
Now that DS is 3, it's really beginning to hit me how much of his family is far away (immediate family is all local, though). DH and I are going to Denver this summer to see a lot of the extended family, and this is something we want to start doing every couple years.
But this "realization" came about over time.
Your brother might come around, but I think if you put too much pressure on him, you might do more harm than good.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Why are you making all the effort? Relationships are a two way street. Some siblings grow apart as they get older. They all don't stay in the same area just to be near family and I don't think should be punished or looked down on just because they made a decision to move away.
Look, it sucks that the relationship dynamic has changed. This tit for tat though is a little immature. I agree w/ ECB that stating how you feel - missing him and that you are both disappointed that you don't all spend much time together anymore is appropriate. I don't see how judging/comparing them because they do not do the same things as other people you know is helping your situation either.
I'm writing this as a sibling who moved away (a 15 hour drive from home) and have had to deal with the same expectations that your brother mentioned - I moved away so I should be the one who does all the traveling to see them. Frankly, I think that's a crappy attitude to have.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
This is my fear & why I am afraid & uncertain if & when is the right/appropriate time to discuss this w/him.
Also, another detail to add - my brother doesn't really like to talk about "life" things. What I mean is, when he can sense that a convo may get heavy or he doesn't know how to answer, he just blows it off & has an excuse to get off the phone. This is another reason that makes talking to him hard at times.
It is nice, but the reality is that you probably aren't going to get it. I think that not putting so much effort into a relationship that you aren't getting that much out of would be your best bet. It is sad, but it will save you so much disappointment.
I would just hope that if you're genuine about it, but upbeat, he'll "hear" you. And maybe he'll start to realize "yeah, I really miss my family".
Wouldn't you rather go home to a family that is fun and enjoying life than a family who is miffed w/ you and might want to "talk" to you about how you don't come home more?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Thank you, Doglove. Your angle brings up a new detail for me to add. The expectation for travel has been put on DH & myself.
Example A: DH & I went to neice's 1st birthday party. It was a 4pm party and we left our home at 7am, got there mid morning, hung out all day and left at about 8pm and did not get home until 11pm. Our dog was in her pen all day & my cousin stopped in once to check on her. Needless to say, it was a LONG day for DH, myself and our dog. We couldn't stay overnight because 1. SIL's family was already staying & things would've been cramped & 2. we didn't have anyone to watch our dog.
Neice's 2nd birthday rolls around and same scenario - same time, etc. DH & I declined her party & sent her gift. I called to tell them we were very sorry & we could celebrate a birthday party #2 when they came in for Thanksgiving (which was just a few wks away). SIL told me she was disappointed & thought we could've made the trip. She very much put the expectation on us.
To be tit for tat for a minute, there are countless milestone events that SIL has missed within our family. I have never chastized or made her feel badly for any of them.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I don't think you'd be stepping on anyone's toes by calmly bringing it up with your brother that you really wish you could see more of him and his family. Explain that you truly miss them all (group them all whether you care for SIL or not) and would really like your children to grow up knowing their uncle/aunt/cousins well but you feel like they're slipping away. I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing how you feel as long as you don't become accusatory. It's possible that your brother is very comfortable with how his life is and won't make a change to visit more often and even though that's not what you'd like, you'd have to accept it.
A lot of people in my family moved away when they grew up and especially now with a family (one uncle in Thailand I haven't seen since I was 16, never met their son or daughter; another uncle in California I haven't seen since I was 12; cousin in Montana I see every few years, etc.). Would it be fun if we all lived in the same town? Yes but those people wouldn't be as happy and I realize I'd rather them happily living their lives than seeing them every holiday. It doesn't mean you can't have a close relationship--skype/phone sessions/e-mail?
I agree with this. Do not EVER say anything along those lines or you will see them even less. I have a brother that recently got married and the whole dynamic of our relationship changed immediately. She doesn't particularly care for us or want to be around us. Her family is now the priority for every holiday. Even non-holiday days, if something with her fam comes up, our time is cut short or they dont show at all. He even jokes, happy wife happy life. But I would never be the one to say something because I'm assuming it would be repeated and then we'd get to see him even less. They too have plans of moving away because she wants to move near other family and I know we will rarely see him once it happens. If they came back even yearly, I'd be surprised. It sucks, but it is what it is. As long as he's happy that's all that matters. If he really wanted to see you more, he would make an effort to do so.
I agree with talking to your brother about visiting more, but I'd probably cut down my trips to them. If they see you and your Dad often they might not feel like they have to make any effort. Also, what terms are you on with SIL? Do you maintain a friendly relationship with her as a person? Do find things for her to do to make it more enjoyable to visit?
If she just doesn't want to travel, perhaps your brother would be willing to make these trips to see family on his own. (I do not suggest this if it would cause them martial problems) She just could be uncomfortable in other people's home.
Other people can expect things all day long, but that doesn't mean you are obligated to comply with the expectations. In fact, the more you do what they want, the more they will keep expecting you do it. Sure there will be some hurt feelings if you don't go, but I promise the world will not blow up. And they will get over it.
Very very true. Well said. I need to work on this!
I hope you realize that a lot of this paragraph is wrong. Your brother does not have a greater obligation to do the travel simply because he moved. He lives where he does, and it takes efforts on all sides to continue a relationship when soemone moves. Yes, you have obligations and things you need to do on the weekends, but so do they. The fact that she is a SAHM does not mean they do nothing on the weekends.
That being said, it might be worth it to ask your brother if there is a reason why things are distant with you and your brother and SIL. Maybe they can shed better light on why they cannot visit as much as you would like.
I agree with this. Three hours, in the grand scheme of things, is NOT far. DH and I do three-hour-each-way day trips sometimes to my IL's, and sometimes they do the same, if we want to visit but don't have a whole weekend. So even if SIL doesn't like spending the night in other people's houses, it's still possible for them to come out for a day. I would definitely try to find out if there's a reason for the emotional distance.
Well, they have their 2 yr old daughter, so I can definitely understand a day trip being a bit much.
Look, I do not care for traveling --I will fully admit this. I get car sick, don't like being away from our dog, like our home/our things/our own bed, but we make the trip to them regardless. Even before our neice came along, my brother & SIL still didn't visit often.
To put things into perspective, you'd probably have to know & understand the inner workings of my SIL. She is very easily inconvenienced. Her parents/family are 2 hrs from them (we're 3) and she has gladly made the trip with our neice in tow (brother to drive there later after work), but when it comes to coming in to see us, she makes it a "big deal" and says that my brother would have to take Friday off from work (my brother gets commission, therefore, hates taking off work) & would never come without him.
I guess one of the PP's who mentioned she may feel uncomfortable staying in "someone else's" home makes sense. It just always "feels" like excuses. I really have to question too --if you're someone who really hates to travel, why live out-of-town from both sides of your family?
I moved a 5 hours OOT and keep up very well with my family. There is always a holiday or a birthday or a visit - they visit me, I visit them and about twice a year we meet in a mutual location (usually summer and fall). Anyway, it makes it about once a month of really regualr visiting.
My sister's husband has a brother with a family similar in age and local and they see them a few times a year - at best. This has been going on for several years, so its quite notable that they are polite and friendly but just don't have an interest in doing anything together. No hosility and the brothers talk often and with warmth, but I see my sister far more frequently and they often go for long stretches with never seeing the children (Jan- spring).
People do what they want to do. It has very little to do with distance.
I understand both sides here.
On the one hand, I think a lot of your feelings aren't entirely fair. It's not your brother/SIL's fault you own a dog. I happen to be one of those non-animal people and will not allow an animal in our house. (My sister and mom both own dogs and I won't shelter them if they travel). So, the inconvenience of traveling while having a dog is 100% your responsibility, not theirs. Also, I understand hating to travel on the weekends because it's the only time to do a lot of stuff....but that's true for your brother too. Either way, someone is giving up the valueable weekend free time to visit the other. It almost sounds like since your SIL is a SAHM, you think her weekend time is less valuable than yours. Also, I totally get your SIL on the Christmas at home thing. I put my foot down about the same thing after we had DS #1. (Wait, am I your SIL???)
On the flip side, I have no doubt that your SIL pretty much runs the household and makes more of an effort for her family than for yours. I have a SIL like that too. She and BIL see her parents once a week for dinner, they do everything together, they live in a house her parents own, they travel to college basketball games together, etc. But then they were too "busy" to see us when the majority of the family was getting together in a location not far from them. And we really only see them about once a year, maybe twice, which made it more frustrating. But, there's nothing we can do about it.
If you talk to your brother, I would phrase it in a way that's something like, "do you have any suggestions for ways we can see each other more often? We miss you guys, but feel a little travel-weary." And see if he has any suggestions. Maybe that'll be enough to inspire him to want to make the extra effort. Sometimes men are happier with less frequent contact w/ family. My DH and his brothers are all like that.
I think PPs have made some good points. I'd like to add that you might need to redefine what it is to have a close relationship with your brother. My brother and I both moved far from home. I get back home 2-3 times per year, as does my brother (although usually not at the same time!). Despite the distance, we all still love each other and share in each other's joys and disappointments. Sure, we don't see each other for birthdays, etc. But, it is what it is.
Some ideas that you may suggest with your brother might include meeting half way between your homes for a weekend lunch (I may be a little crazy to think this, but my normal commute is 1 hour, so driving 1.5 hours doesn't seem to out there), using Skype to talk (especially with your niece), and keeping up more via email/facebook/etc. That way you're not doing all the work in traveling out to visit your brother's family.
I have been dealing with something similar since moving to CA in 2005 and slowly coming to recognize that my brother (and my sister, to a lesser degree) just doesn't have the care that I do for maintaining our sibling relationship. Granted, he lives in Israel so it's hard to really see each other with any regularity, but he's even horrible at easy things like email and Skype.
Actions speak louder, and his actions are whisper-quiet. He doesn't want to make the effort - it's not that it's hard for him, it's just not a priority. And maybe that's the case with your brother as well. Sometimes, even if you grew up together and have a lot of shared memories, people don't click. It happens. I'm doing my best to not take it personally and to move on, and I'd encourage you to maybe consider doing the same.
This is pretty much what I was about to post.
I know that it sucks to not see your brother all the time, but he has his own life now. His priority is to his wife and child. I'm sure that the only time they have to do things as a family is on the weekends and to say that 1/4 of their family time has to be spent seeing you is unfair. He should see you and reciprocate visits on occasion, but it needs to be in moderation.
Sorry, I thought that you said something about wanting to see them once a month (hence the 1/4 of their time statement). Still, his priority should be spending time with his wife and daughter.
Is it possible for you to just call and chat or talk on facebook to maintain the relationship?
I absolutely 100% agree that his wife & child should be top notch priority & spending adequate time w/them comes first.
I am realistic. I realize that weekends are for "family time" & they have their own lives & things to do. DH & I are the exact same way, so it would be hypocritical of me to think otherwise. However, I just think there should be certain holidays/events that (if you are able to attend), you should try & make the effort. Year to year, this may change as life happens - but just putting a hault on traveling at all - that seems a little harsh.
However, I am coming to the realization reading everyone's feedback, that this just might be the way my brother is and something I am going to have to learn to accept.
Also, SIL, neice & I have skyped before. We did that on Christmas morning. Although I think email, skype and even FB are all great anvenues to "stay in touch", they should not be depended on as the only way (if you can avoid it).
I never said it was my Brother or SIL's fault because we have a dog. I don't blame them one bit for not allowing us to bring her on visits either. I agree w/them on this. Even though DH and I have a dog (+2 cats) and are very much animal lovers, that still isn't an automatic "bring your dog to our house when you visit us" signal. In fact, that kind of bothers us. Sure, I like other people's pets too - just in their own house more than mine!
Plus, if one of our pets has an accident or something, we're going to excuse it easier than someone else's pet, because it's our pet, if that makes sense. So, that said, I don't hold any anger/blame towards my brother & SIL for having a "no pets allowed" home - their home, their rules.
I really really like this idea. Thank you for that. I think that would be a good compromise & that way, neither side has to forgo their entire weekend with traveling the entire way + staying over night. I will definitely bring that up in convo & see if my brother & SIL would be comfortable doing that.
Thank you, Livinitup. I believe in this also.
I love my siblings. I love my parents. I love my entrie family. That being said, they are two hours away. It is not easy to get away with a young child, and I applaud them for being able to say "we are making Christmas a day for our child."
If I was suddenly getting a guilt trip from anyone in my family, it would not make me want to visit any more. I would probably dread it and do it less.
I think if you broach this subject with your brother, you need to be prepared to deal with the fall-out and then not visiting at all.
I completely agree, because I was that person getting a guilt trip!! My sister (who lives 6 1/2 hours away) complained that I only visited her when I was near there for something work related, that I should make it a priority to see her on other weekends too. Well, you know what? I was near her last week for work, and didn't even try to arrange my schedule to visit when I easily could have. Same sister who won't come visit me because I don't allow her dog in my house, yet expects me to jump up and travel to her with my one year old.