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Should I be concerned for my son
My son got a note from his 1st grade teacher that he was refusing to work/participate during his math group class. Based on what my son told me and the email she sent me it doesn't sound like he was doing it on purpose. It sounds like he was nervous and feeling bad for not knowing the answer. I guess his teacher was frustrated that he couldn't find the counters to help him figure out what 2 + 2 was. Though she says they were right in front of him and in the same place as they always are for some reason he couldn't find them. Unless he was being disrespectful or flat out told her no I don't really agree with the note I received saying he was refusing to work or participate in his class. Here is the email I received:
"As you know, Alex has been in my math group since the beginning of the school year. Alex has really increased his ability to listen to instructions the first time. He consistently sits within close proximity of me so ensure that he is following along and listening. Just recently he has been able to listen to instructions given the first time. Previously I had to give a reminder to ensure he was listening. Repeating instructions 3 times to him was common. The following is an example: please write the number 6 on line A. Then he would say, what number. When the prompt was given two times previous.
At times he seems to not know how to be a self starter. If he comes into the classroom and doesn?t see a chair at his spot. He just stands there. Without using his words he doesn?t move. So after waiting him out 5 minutes or so. I would ask him how he could problem solve it. He often responds with ?I don?t know.? This is not only for getting a chair but a pencil that might be on the other side of the table we are working at. So I spoke with Mrs. York about a strategy to ensure that he is working on problem solving those situations. She ensured me that giving him clear directions and an encouraging phrase such as, ?I know you can figure out how to?.? This has been successful for her. So since doing that he has been taking more of an initiative.
On Thursday, the students were working on problems that were review. Adding one more and two more. He solved problems 14+1, 8+1, and 5+2. When he solved 2+2 he said 24. I asked him if he started with 2 and moved over two more on the number line, what number would you end up on? He said, ?24.? I told him to go the shelf where we get counters so he can use this to help him. He said, ?I don?t know where that is.? This is a place where students go to get supplies for activities. He was standing right in front of the shelf and looking at them and said, ?I don?t know what shelf. What am I suppose to get.? So I told him I was confident that he could find counters to help him. So he stood there. When I saw him do this, I said, okay I am looking at the clock and it says 9:50, this is way past our time. From here on out, you will need to start owing me your recess time. About 10 minutes later one of the para?s came in and didn?t realize he was trying to problem solve where to get the counters as he was now sitting in front of the shelf where we get the counters. She got them for him and helped him. When he came to me and said 2 + 2 is 4. I said, ?Great, how did you know how to solve this.? He said, ?She helped me.?
This was a task that I was confident that he knew how to do and was able to take counters out of an open container on the shelf to help him with this task. In our program, we are working on students using numbers lines and visualizing moving over on those numbers. Adding two more is not a new task in facts we have been working on this for a few months. In order to solidify number conservation students are taught to know that a 2 is 2 and a two has two objects. So holding a number, usually the largest and counting on the next number . When figures are used, the prompt is what number are you starting with, then what is one more, then two more. He is able to verbalize this and complete it on activities. We do work extensively on holding a number in our head then counting on. Please let me know if you have any further questions."
I don't know but do you think that he should have had his recess taken away for not knowing where the counters were or for saying he didn't know where they were (even if they were in the same spot as they usually are)? Couldn't she just have helped him like the other teacher did? My son does have anxiety and if she made him feel bad for not knowing what 2 + 2 was I can understand why he'd be feeling a littler nervous and his mind not functioning as it normally would. Am I overreacting to the way I perceive his math teacher (who is not his regular 1st grade teacher) treated him? If I'm not overreacting how should I handle this?
Re: Should I be concerned for my son
He sounds like he's not obeying because he does not want to do the work. Or, conversely, he cannot understand simple instructions or remember from day to day where commonly used objects are in the room.
Unless you think he has a real learning disability or some other sort of defect that would allow him to do some of the addition problems but not 2 +2 = 4 or to go get a chair when he walks in the room for the umpteenth time, yes, you are overreacting. I would be really annoyed if my kid was doing this at home; does he do stuff like this at home? His teacher is not there to follow him around and do stuff for him; his teacher is there to help him to learn.
I think she was right to take away his recess. I think you need to focus on your son and the problems that she's having with him and less on if this action hurt your feelings.
I think she is telling you so that you are aware of how he acts in class, maybe so that you can help encourage him to problem solve at home/when he goes out with you ect. so that he's more comfortable doing it in class when he's away from you.
has he been tested for a learning disability? I don't mean to offend you but his behaviour almost sounds like there might be more to this than just him being nervous or not listening.
I'd be thankful then that she told you now what was happening then. Maybe make an appointment to meet with her and maybe a therapist as well to get his anxiety under control. Right now it sounds like if it is his anxiety, that if he doesn't learn how to get a hold of it he's going to have a very hard time in the future. Not knowing where a drawer is that they've had forever though doesn't seem like anxiety, this seems like he's either not listening or he's not understanding some everyday functions of the class (maybe you can bring him to meet the teacher with you and you can go through the class with him to make sure he is familiar with the things, maybe it would even help his anxiety).
I'm sure he's a very smart kid, but something is not right in the way he's acting. Now that it's brought to you're attention you can figure out if he's acting out, if it's anxiety which should be looked after or if there is another reason for his behaviour When a teacher is repeating herself 3 times for one student but all the other students are understanding the concepts then its probably a problem with this student not with her teaching. I'd work with her to figure this out.
However, I am also quite concerned by his teacher's terrible writing skills. I got a headache reading through that.
Honey, you aren't listening to what the PPs are saying. No one has said your son is a bad person, is not smart, or that he's misbehaving. What they are saying is that there is something getting in the way of his ability to function in the way the teacher has directed. Maybe that something is the anxiety you've mentioned. If it is, then that is something that needs to be addressed because it is going to get in the way of his functioning at school and in society and unless it is addressed it won't get better. Or he could have a cognitive learning disability. That doesn't mean that he's not an extremely bright kid - it means that there is something in his very bright brain that is blocking his ability to function in the way that he should and again, it is something that needs attention so he can learn to work around it and get the best possible education.
You need to put your hurt feelings and your feelings that your son is being mislabeled/mistreated aside and deal with reality. It is not horrible that the teacher cut into his recess period one time to see if his desire to go outside would allow him to make the right choice. How else is she going to know if it is something he WON'T do versus something he CAN'T do on his own? She now knows he is struggling which is why she is bringing it to your attention. YOU now need to get him assessed to find out what is causing this problem for him and get it treated.
So you are trying to say that he has so much anxiety that he can't ask for a chair or go to get the counters when they are right in front of him? If so you have a lot more to worry about then he taking time away form his recess.
I'm pretty sure if she has worked with him for 5 months she can tell when he chooses not to do something or he cant for other reasons.
He didnt do what she wanted she wanted him to get the blocks and figure it out, he only did the 2nd part of the task.
he either didnt get them on purpose OR he had so much anxiety he couldnt...either way it is a big deal. if he really has that much anxiety it needs to be addressed and the teachers need to be trained on how to deal with it.
Sorry a lurker coming out
I have to agree with mom for a few reasons.
1. With the email she sent I would be side eyeing everything she says. She is a teacher and sends emails like that.
2. I have a 5 year old that is the same way. He can have a item that you asked him to get right in front of him but for some reason his brain does not see it. (He has AHDH and Autsim) Also if you ask him to do something in a tone that may seem scary to him, or he does not understand he will just stare at you. He is not disobeying, his brain is just not sending the right signals that need to be.
I would recommend your DS to get tested for a learning issue. It seems like this could be more than anxiety.
Yeah, I didn't even bother proofreading her email but after several people brought it to my attention I have to wonder how on earth she even became a teacher?? I wonder how she'd feel if I called her out on her writing skills and told her that she needs to fix her mistakes (I won't do it though). This is something she SHOULD already know yet she's concerned about my son not knowing where the counters are because they were right in front of him and SHOULD have seen them? Looks like she needs to spend her spare time studying or go back to college and learn how to write. Sorry, had to vent.
I really don't want this to sound snide, but no matter how I type it, I'm sure it will. My 14-year-old has this same problem, only the 14-year-old version, and I think it's because I didn't nip this schizz in the bud when he was 5 and doing the 2+2 stuff. Now it's all "Where do the forks go, again?" and "Oh, I was supposed to put laundry detergent in the washing machine when I put dirty clothes in and started it up?" and the list goes on and on and on and on.
I wish I had set higher expectations for my son. Now it's this viscious cycle of I have these high expectations (which honestly aren't that high), he doesn't "reach" them, gets frustrated, and shoots evem lower the next time. Drives. Me. Nuts.
Your son knows where the counters are, and it sounds like the teacher was trying to be really gentle in nudging him towards them. So I guess I don't have any advice, but I think the teacher is moving in the right direction. You need to find the currency that works to motivate your son. If recess is it, great. I've been known to outright bribe my son with actual cash.
I agree with most of the above posters- your son was either choosing not to listen, is so debilitated by anxiety it is severely impacting his ability to function, or he has some type of learning disability that is preventing him from following even simple instructions. I think one of the latter two options are more likely, and both require you to get him assessed asap. To be honest I'm a little concerned that you keep saying "he has anxiety" but haven't mentioned what you are doing to treat it. If his anxiety is really that severe, he needs help in overcoming it.
Signed,
Someone who watched her five-year-old sister deal with anxiety so severe she flew into panic attacks when she saw people jaywalking across the street but responded very positively to counselling and is now a happy and well-adjusted teenager thanks to early treatment.
The teacher seems really odd and peculiar. Maybe it's normal to itemize all of these behaviors, but she comes-off kinda cold. On the other hand, she is extremely transparent and seems very willing to detail each and every interaction and that is really cool and professional.
Overall, if she's this willing to be this plugged-into your son and what's going on in the classroom, I'd give her her due. She seems very vested in getting him on level and on track .. and for that, she deserves your support. Even if he misses a recess. Somehow, I think it would be a whole lot easier for her to say "He's awsome" and send him to recess and then next grade and make everyone happy- instead of working this hard to detail what's going on and what she wants to see. At least she seems plugged-into what's really going on. And wants better.
I would recommend posting this on the "special needs" boards on thebump.
My son is having the same problems. He has high anxiety (like your son) and would not "use his words" to ask for help or more directions. It totally caught me off-guard b/c DS is 100% great at home (in a familiar setting, where I can interpret what he says, where there is a 1-1 parent / child ratio most of the time). But the reality is that school is not like home
PM Me if you want to ask more (or check special needs board where they might have more insight) - - your son sounds a lot like mine. I have enrolled him in social skills and mentoring groups, and I see more of this in the future. The good news is that I have already seen improvement. But yes, I would be concerned, and I would start doing what you can NOW while your DS is still young, b/c the more he is "different" as he gets older, the harder it will be for him socially to learn good habits (and break bad ones) and to fit in.
You need to stop taking this so personally.Teachers don't just choose a random kid to pick on, or make up fake problems to piss off parents.
It sounds like this teacher has had to cut into her regular teaching time quite a few times to assist your son ... there are other kids who need her attention and she can't just drop everything and repeat instructions to your son until he gets it right. She doesn't have the time to put his feelings ahead of the educational needs of every other kid in the class.
Some kids do things like this to get attention or to test boundaries. Others do it unintentionally because of anxiety, learning disabilities, personal stuff occupying their thoughts, etc. To me it sounds like the teacher took away recess, maybe, to see if the problem was simply a disciplinary one.
Br grateful that she's addressing this problem with you, rather than just ignoring your son and letting him fall further between the cracks. Stop worrying about your feelings and focus on the issue at hand - making sure that your son understands what he needs to do in school.
Haha , I was thinking the same thing!
All of this. When he's 25 are you going to be arguing with his boss that they should take his "anxiety" into account when he can't do his job? Help him get along in society, whatever that takes.
Hmm, many thoughts come to mind.
1. Does he do this in other classes or only in math?
2. Does he do this will all math teachers or only this one?
3. It could be general anxiety, anxiety around that one teacher, or math anxiety.
4. He might need to be tested for some type of learning disability.
5. Have you had his hearing and vision checked?
You might want to repost on the Bump's School Aged or Special Needs Boards.
The teacher sounds exasperated and frustrated. And yes, she is not a gifted writer. But you sound a bit like a mom in denial, defending, excusing and explaining away her very legitimate concerns. Is this the first time someone from your son's team has contacted you? What have other teachers reported this year and last?
The bottom line, if your child is going to be successful in school, he needs to learn to work under all kinds of teachers. Even the stern, demanding and unreasonable ones. I'm not a fan of taking recess from any first grader, but the teacher is well within her rights if your son is not cooperating or if he needs so much attention that his lessons run-over into recess. I mean, she's working through her "break" as well.
JMHO, a missed recess seems like the least of what's going on here. Your son's behavior in this class is significantly atypical; by February of first grade he should have mastered the expectations of this teacher and how the class works. Many of the behaviors she is describing could be attributed to diagnosable conditions that could be improved with treatment in the form of therapy, differentiated instruction, in-school accomodations and support. Being bright doesn't rule out any of the mental, behavioral or developmental issues below. Not saying he has anything, just that his teacher may have reason to be more concerned than you are.
The behaviors you describe are common to kids with with specific learning disabilities. When tasks are challenging for them, they will often avoid the work and will answer "I don't know" almost reflexively if pressed. The specific math learning disability is dyscalculia, but both dysgraphia (writing) and dyslexia (reading) can enter into math performance.
Some of what you describe could be an Auditory Processing Disorder. I was intrigued by the idea of him "not moving without using his words". Do you mean he talks himself through task completion? Along with needing multiple verbal prompts, this is commonly seen in kids with APD/CAPD. It could be he takes longer to process verbally given information or that his auditory memory isn't developed enough to hold onto what he's told. Accommodations around this would be a multisensory prompting the include visuals to back up the spoken instructions. FWIW, auditory processing continues to mature and improve all through the elementary years.
It sounds like his problem solving skills are not on par with his peers. Not just that he's struggling with a kindie level math problem, but that he can't recognize and mitigate the problem of not having a chair. Sometimes this disconnect is seen in very bright kids with higher functioning form of autism. These are kids who are said to lack common sense.
The inability to "hold a number in our head", as the teacher puts it, can be a global memory glitch. This is sometimes seen in kids who also have poor auditory memory. He may need a more visual style of learning to be successful. For kids like these, sprialing math curricula like "Everyday Math" will be less than ideal because he might not get enough practice on concepts to fully master them.
You mention anxiety. Has he been diagnosed with anxiety, or are you just throwing it out there? True anxiety is a treatable mental health issue not just a personality trait. If he's shutting down in class due to anxiety, he should be professionally evaluated for it. Anxiety does sometimes exist on its own (GAD) but often it is a function of another overarching condition like high functioning autism or OCD.
I wonder if this email was to get you used to the idea that they see atypical behavior so you aren't blindsided if they ask to evaluate him at some point. Maybe you should talke with the school counselor or school spychologist about observing him in this class. A fresh, unbiased set of eyes may give you some clarity around what's really going on.
what auntie said! especially, "I wonder if this email was to get you used to the idea that they see atypical behavior so you aren't blindsided if they ask to evaluate him at some point. Maybe you should talke with the school counselor or school spychologist about observing him in this class. A fresh, unbiased set of eyes may give you some clarity around what's really going on."
i have taught 500-1,000 elementary aged kids (i.e. the whole school) every single year for the last 13 years, and i can tell you that what your son's teacher is describing is not usual behavior. i would try to remove your hurt feelings or worry right now and try to get to what's really going on. i would start with his teachers and really. listen. to what they're saying to you. don't play the blame game. listen to what they're telling you and remind yourself that you are all on the same side.
like a pp said, teachers don't have time to single students out and "pick on them". (and no teacher i know wants to, anyway.) i would schedule a meeting with this teacher and call other teachers that your son sees throughout the day and find out if this is happening just in math class or in all areas and what exactly is happening. does he go to PE or art or music? are those teachers seeing the same behaviors? find out the facts before you get emotional and make judgements.
1.) The other teacher didn't "help" him. The other teacher unknowingly did the work for him.
2.) This whole situation seems to have created a lot of emotional turmoil for you. Did you have negative experiences in school? Do you suffer from anxiety?
Psst...that's nip it in the BUD, not nip it in the BUTT.
Are you still here? My goodness....:(
And how is he a baby? the lad is six. THat's not a baby by any means.
To the OP: have you spoken to the child study team? And maybe this is a case of the teacher and the child not being a good fit. Maybe get his teacher changed; have him put into another class with a different teacher; see how he fares.
Keep his math mind in motion at home when there's no school. Math is everywhere we look -- when you bake or cook something that calls for a recipe, have him watch -- and you explain the mathematics of the amount of ingredients that goes into that particular recipe. A recipe for cookies is a good example.:) he's old enough to know what half a cup is and what a "yield" means.:)
A lot of people replying here are suggesting that the child might have some kind of disability or other special need. If that's the case, then denying him recess seems cruel to me. It would be an appropriate punishment for a normally functioning student who's just deliberately misbehaving, yes, but in this case, probably not.
I'm not saying the teacher doesn't have legitimate concerns; I'm just saying that denying the child recess (which probably humiliated him because his classmates obviously knew) was the wrong way to manage them - therefore, Team Mom.
And ditto the PPs who observed the poor grammar and sentence structure of this email. There is no excuse for a teacher writing like this.
I'm sorry but it was actually me who reached out to his 1st grade teacher inquiring about the note she sent home with my son that stated he was refusing to work/participate in his class. I emailed her and asked her if she could clarify to me what happened during his math group class. His teacher then forwarded my email to his math teacher and that is when she emailed me the above. She never reached out to me before that is why I didn't know she had any issues with my son until a few days ago. I did know he had trouble staying on task in regular class and his teacher lets me know each and every time. I have no problem when she does and his recess has been taken away from her for a good reason. His math teacher just seemed to go over board in my opinion. She could have just pointed to where the counters were and he would have gotten them and given her the answer. Then he could have gone back to his 1st grade teacher's class and continued on with the day. How long was she planning on keeping him there? The entire day???
But, see, the teacher doesn't know if he has a disability. She shouldn't, either. She may have some ideas that something's not right, but I wouldn't expect her to be a psychologist. Here's what I see happening: 1., teacher noticed a trend in her son with some problems he was having. 2., She's tried several things, but none of them are working (encouraging him, etc.) 3., As a last resort (and, I'm thrilled that she tried tested this as a last resort rather than assuming the worst from the beginning) she threatened to take away his favorite thing for ONE day, just to see if he was being willfully disobedient. 4., Since it doesn't appear that he's doing this intentionally, she wrote a detailed letter to mom, which, given the language, she may have blind-CCed to the school psychologist among other administrators. 5., She seems really interested in helping your son get over whatever issue he has rather than just doing the easy thing (i.e., rushing him through the assignment by getting the items for him.)
So, now it's on mom, as hard as it is, to open her mind to the idea that maybe there is a difference or difficulty here. The sooner she does that, the sooner they can work together to correctly identify and fix the problem. Just jumping to her son's defense isn't going to solve anything, and may take up precious time that could be used helping him achieve his full potential.
Again, this is neither here nor there. Who cares how you found out he's struggling----the truth is, he's struggling. Now what are you going to do about it?
You can keep blaming the mean old math teacher who wouldn't do your son's work for him (and, yes, part of early childhood education is learning things outside of the books--- learning to problem solve, take initiative, and share with others is as important as learning to count or identifying shapes) or you can say, "Ok. My son is great at X and Y but in the math classroom, at least, he's having some problems with Z." Let's see if we can target this and fix the problem now so that it doesn't impact him in the future. Whether that problem is classroom anxiety, teacher anxiety, a learning difference, or whatever, the earlier you get him help in dealing with the problem (rather than the teacher or you dealing with it for him!) the more adept, confident young man he'll become.