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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Should I be concerned for my son
I understand that the teacher isn't qualified to know if the kid has a disability or not. I realize that taking away recess was meant to determine what kind if issue exists. I just think that a disability should be ruled out BEFORE you humiliate a kid in front of his peers, not after. JMO.
Speaking as the parent of a child who has Asperger Syndrome, ADHD and specific learning disabilies (Math and Reading- both repaired at this point), I have to disagree with your warm and fuzzy notion. It's a hard call to make, but I don't want my kid discriminated against using lowered expectations. I kept my kid in the mainstream so that he could learn to function by the same rules to which others are held accoutable. Was it fair? No, not always? Did he have to work harder than other kids? You betyourass. Is he ready for college next fall? Yes. In part because he lost recess once in a while.
A child on an IEP would have a behavior management plan that the team could work out to suit the child. LOL, DS's 4th grade math teacher was on record of having recess with any child who didn't complete his homework. DS loved indoor recess with the undivided attention of this sweet young lady and her animal menagerie. Great idea, but not for my kid.
Ok, op you reached out and all but my point is hearing something bad is something that you can't help but take personally. He is your child and you don't want him to feel bad or be mistreated. Certainly, you know he wasn't going to be kept all day but she was trying to get him to use an ability that he has displayed before. No harm there, imho.
As an educator with a Master's Degree in Special Ed, any child who does not perform in the manner that is expected across the board can raise the attention of an educator. Yes, that does not mean that your son has a disability but it does mean that he cannot perform in the same manner as his peers. His teacher is trying to understand him better and she, like you are there to forward concerns to the team of people who educate your child. His response was atypical and she is seeking clarity. What could possibly be your issue with that? Lost recess? In the scheme of things lost recess is small change. Good luck with this issue. I hope that you two can meet somewhere in the middle and that your little one gets what he needs.
If a student is refusing to complete a task, you think a teacher should hold off all punishment until an evaluation is done to see if he/she has a disability? Ok...
Way to jump to conclusions. I never said bullies should be "kicked out right away with no questions asked: I said that they should be held accountable for their actions.
And LMAO that you're comparing failure to pick up a counter to bullying.
Well, in this context they could both be seen as dysfuntional behaviors with an antecentdent in a behavioral health issue that would be uncovered as part of a MFE. Just sayin'.
No young kid wants to be seen as bad; if there's a challenging behavior there's usually an underlying glitch driving it.
There's one huge, huge difference. Bullying results in someone else getting harmed. Sometimes physically. Sometimes suicide results. I mean, seriously - COME ON.
IB only brought bullying up not because it's relevant to this post (it's not) but because she's personally angry with me for disagreeing with her views on how bullying should be managed - on another board - MONTHS ago.
Uh, no. Seriously. This kid has had recess taken away before, according to the mom, by the regular teacher (unless I'm misreading). And in any event, teachers are not allowed to diagnose disabilities; and to say they cannot use a normal discipline, such as no recess (this is a normal discipline in schools), unless the child has been evaluated by a professional and found to be normal? That's nuts.
This teacher is spelling out a very clear problem this kid is having. The behavior she is outlining is not normal, and he's doing this for any one of a number of reasons, but he's doing it. Helping this kid at this point is going to make a huge difference in his life; as not helping him at this point will too. He's not getting picked on.
JulienC, I am still waiting for an answer. This seems very personal for you. Did you have negative experiences in school?
I think you're overreacting. Her e-mail just tells how it happened - even if he had felt some anxiety, he still couldn't follow simple directions and lost his recess. It doesn't sound like she holds a grudge against your son or was at her "wits end" just that she has been working with your son to follow rules when first asked.
Kids act different at school than home, I'd just thank the teacher for letting you know and talk with your son about trying to follow directions the first time or being honest and asking for help if he can't understand.
Are you united with the CCOKCs?
i think his teacher needs to work on her grammar, spelling, punctuation and letter writing skills. oye!!!!
i also think that there need to be consequences to actions. if the counters were the same place they are every single day and he wasn't participating then yes, i think he does deserve a punishment. of course she could've just helped him but she's trying to teach him how to learn and solve problems on his own. thank her for that. perhaps if the other teacher had he would't stand there wondering what to do when someone's in his seat.
Putting the teacher's atrocious grammar and sentence structures aside...
I don't think you're necessarily overreacting, but I do think it would be beneficial for you and your son to work with a therapist to get his anxiety under control, and get checked for any LDs. It really doesn't sound like what the teacher is describing is defiance at all, it sounds more like either his anxiety is so debilitating that when he's put on the spot, he can't function, or there's a possible LD that is preventing him to remember things like where the counters are or to get a chair if there isn't one present for him. And I'm absolutely not saying any of these things to put down your son at all, please don't take it that way. My brother was so painfully shy in elementary school that within a month or so after starting a new school year, all his teachers would stop putting him on the spot and call on him for answers in front of the class, knowing that he's almost be physically ill worrying that he'd get the wrong answer; your son's behavior almost sounds like it very well could be his anxiety getting in the way. Since you mentioned that he wouldn't skip recess and loves being outside, the fact that he still couldn't find the counters really sounds like there's something else that's preventing him from following the directions.
If this is the first you're hearing of it, I do agree that the teacher should have brought these things to your attention months ago, rather than waiting for her frustrations to come to a head and then write a long (poorly written) note to you about everything. Could you have a conference with the teacher and the school counselor and maybe get a plan to help your son with all parties involved? Maybe with all of you working together, you can find the root cause of his issues in the class, whether it be the anxiety, a LD, or a simple issue with following directions.
This exactly. From reading the email from the teacher, it seems like she has some very legitimate concerns. This isn't an issue about picking on your son, it's an issue about addressing these concerns now instead in high school when he has to fail grade 10 or 11 a couple of times. Ask the school psychologist to have him tested. You may find that there is a LD and the way to help him cope in these situations.
Yes, he was diagnosed with a mild form of anxiety but nothing he needed to be put on medication for. I took him in to get him tested for ADHD but she said it was anxiety. The treatment for it was having him go in once a week and have him sit and play for 30 minutes. She never discussed anything with me or sat him down and had a conversation with him. Often time she wanted him to be in charge and asked that I play along with him so he could feel in control. These sessions went very well but they didn't help him focus more in school.
I would say that I had some negative experiences in school because I was a very shy kid. I hardly spoke up and sometimes the teachers misunderstood me or spoke down to me. I do have anxiety but I've never been to the doctor for it or had to be put on medication. It's just something I recognize I do have. I know first hand how some teachers discriminate against kids who are different. It happened to me and I wonder how some of my teachers even became teachers.
However, I don't think this math teacher was wrong to bring to my attention her concerns. The note stated he was refusing to work and therefore he had to stay in from recess and complete his math work. He said that he spent his time reading. In his mind he thought he was being punished for not being able to find the counters. Also, I think she was disappointed that the other teacher helped him find the counters but it was the other teacher's choice to help him. If she walked in and saw him struggling and just helped him then where was his math teacher? Why didn't she just let the teacher know that she had instructed him to find them on his own? If she took it upon herself to help him then that's not his fault. Obviously he would have kept looking if the other teacher didn't walk in. None of it sounds like he was "refusing" to work...he was looking. I can't explain why he didn't see them if they were in front of him.
I have spoken to the school counselor and I requested that he be evaluated for a learning disability and brought up the concerns his teachers have about him. She mentioned that many kids are very smart but that he may have a hard time processing information. She said that she will need his teacher to complete some paperwork and she'll get back with me. So I guess we'll go from there. I'm not in denial about his behavior. I thought the teacher was satisfied with his behavior but his math teacher obviously see's some red flags that she is just now bringing to my attention. I didn't know she had issues getting him to do things as simple as getting a chair or a pencil if it's not in front of him...until I read her email. I never knew his math teachers had any issues with him at all. When I've spoken to his regular teacher in the past she told me there were things he needed to work on but nothing too concerning.
Who diagnosed him? Who is the "She" in this paragraph?
He's very smart...he just is unable to focus in certain subjects. An example is: He and I are at the kitchen table working on a math problem. As I'm explaining to him how to complete a problem I see he's looking at me but also reaching for the eraser that has caught his eye. I take it away and tell him to please pay attention to what I'm saying. He says ok but then I see him slowly reaching for something with his foot. He's still looking at me and thinks I can't see what he's doing. I remove whatever he's reaching for and ask him to pay attention again. He sits there and fidgets and is looking at me but I can often tell that everything is going through one ear and out the other. It usually gets to the point where I'm very frustrated (and he knows it) to get him to cooperate. The funny thing is he loves to read and is an above average reader for his age. He'll drop everything to read and doesn't mind reading to me...even long books.
"Professional Counselor" is a pretty meaningless title. I'd want my son evaluated by a physician or clinical psychologist. The military doesn't tend to hire the brightest bulbs around mental and behavioral health. My BIL was a Navy psychologist for years at several bases around the world. He's a nice guy and an expert on PTSD, but he didn't even know what Aspergers was when my son was dx'd with it. You should seek a second opinion outside of the base, IMHO.
So nobody actually observed this child outside of a clinical setting? Nobody went to the school and sat in his class and watched him?
You should contact the school, in writing (not email or by phone which are not legally binding) and request a full multifactored evaluation in all areas of suspected disability". This site has templates if you are unsure how to approach this-
http://www.wrightslaw.com/
Just curious, why do you take things away from him? Did someone tell you to or are you acting on your own? A lot of kids with attentional and learning differences have "figits" written into their IEPs to help them stay on task and engaged. Sugraless gum and yoga balls are other options to keep these kids in the game.
I sent you a PDF I have about inertia and school work where you posted on School-Age Kids.
This 100%. His teacher also has other kids she needs to teach. Unless your son has a learning disability that makes it impossible for him to comprehend these things, I don't think the teacher overreacted at all.
Do you just do things for him at home a lot? The not knowing to go get another chair or to ask the teacher where he might get one is concerning to me.
Teachers do not take lots of writing classes in college--and I would be less worried about her writing and getting your problem fixed. You have blamed the teacher on this over and over and now you are jumping on the way she writes.
My 3.5 year old goes to speech once a week and has to get certain manipulatives from the same shelf every week-he would be in a ton of trouble if he just stood there and looked at the shelf. Same for the chair thing.
What did your child do during recess? In our school, we will hold kids in for recess for all sorts of things-tutoring, make-up work-or learning academies.
The teacher did you a favor by letting you in on the situation, trying to remedy this, get him some help before next year, to let you know what is going on-this is why some teachers NEVER contact parents-they get so worked up about it and start bashing everything they do.
Yeah, but she sent the note first telling you about the initial problem.
You don't agree with the note? What does that even mean? And out of all of that you are fixated on missing a recess?
I haven't read the other responses but my guess is that the math teacher is (in a very, very poorly written email) trying to demonstrate a larger issue she sees in your son.
I'd follow up the email and focus on the issues your son is having, not the fact that he missed a recess.
I think the teacher was trying to motivate your son when she said that for reach minute it took him to complete the task he would lose a minute of recess. The teacher believed that this was a task that he could easily do, and therefore any missed recess would be of his own choosing. I bet she expected that he would be motivated to problem solve and accomplish the task as fast as possible. When he didn't she was forced to follow through. From what I read, I don't think the teacher intended for the loss of recess time to be punitive like a "time out" would be.
I hope you can let go of the hurt you feel about this, and focus on addressing what you can do to help your son with his issues.
From your previous post mentioning the evaluations and fidgeting at the table, it sounds like you've pegged him with a diagnosis for ADHD and are hoping someone will give you the answer you want. I can definitely understand wanting an answer, but allow the trained professionals to diagnose him. I know ADHD seems like an easy answer or fix, but is it worth it if it masks a truer condition?
I think you have received enough unbiased feedback here to show that yes, you are overreacting. I dare say the vast majority of responders want the best for your son, as do his teachers. Best of luck in his development.