Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
How to deal with a soon to be FIL that is a chauvinist?
Ok I need advice on a situation brewing with my soon to be FIL. My fiance is an only child, and very close with his parents. His family escaped from a socialist country before the wall fell and this has only served to reinforce the family bond as they had to leave everything behind and start in a new country.
I mention this background because it is important since his father has very very anti-communist/anti-socialist views and shares them very openly to whomever will listen. My fiance respects his father and opinions and uses politics as something to bond with his father. Where I don't share all of his father's opinions, I respect that they are his except for the views expressed at the dinner table last night.
Last night at the dinner table, my soon to be FIL made some extremely chauvinist comments. My fiance was sitting right at the table and could see I was clear upset. I normally tune out the "preaching" of political views and social engineering because if you disagree or counter with a differing opinion he throws "experience in life" and makes you feel stupid for not making the huge leaps he does.
Comments were (and I am not paraphrasing or misinterpreting, these were the actual comments which is why I can't get over them):
1. Women are not good managers because they are too emotional because they get PMS every month.
2. Women are not good managers/ good in the workplace because they cannot focus on a single task enough to do it well.
3. Women can't focus and therefore cannot make life or death decisions as well as a man.
4. Women are better in the home with their multi-tasking because that is what they are supposed to do, it's nature.
5. Professional women are the reason why our population is dwindling, we will never see a WWIII because we are killing off ourselves.
6. Women in the workforce means men cannot bring home as much money as they used to. Moden women have effectively "castrated" the modern man.
7. A woman's purpose is in the home and making/tending to children. That's why they are built that way.
8. You are a feminist. (Said with disgust) and then back-pedalled when he saw my reaction.
9. Occasionally there is an exceptional female that could be ok at managing but men are just wired differently and best at it.
10. And more...
What prompted our discussion to unravel such as this? My comment that stats show that women occupying equivalent positions to men are still paid less than their male counterparts. This is not ficticious stats, I quoted the government survey results in reaction to a comment he had made (which I can't honestly remember).
I am a professional woman working in a highly male driven industry and constantly having to prove myself. I know his father respects me, I know his father loves me. I know he thinks I am smart and driven and talented. I know he is proud to have me as his DIL. And the feelings are reciprocated. But I just can't help but feel offended, angry and saddened by the comments he made. I have lost respect for him and anything that comes out of his mouth. I'm also worried at how these viewpoints have effected my fiance to up until now I did not question at all with these viewpoints. (I'm questioning due to his lack of involvement in the conversation)
My fiance and I live with our own parents until our home closing goes through in 3 months. We marry in 4.5 months. We are actively planning for the wedding, the home, and our future lives together and have not encountered any hurdles thus far, until last night. I love my fiance's parents, get along well with them and am very thankful for everything they have done for us and are doing for us which has made this situation all the worse. I spoke to my fiance on our own later and he didn't seem to think his father was out of line in any way. He didn't want to defend his comments and almost made me feel like I was being silly for feeling upset. This has definately stirred up some big questions for me and caused a fight between my fiance and I.
I truly don't know what to do at this point. I do not want to step foot in their home until I have this resolved in my own mind on how I will deal with future comments or conversations. I don't want to snap at him, I don't want to cause rifts but I also don't want to feel "inferior" or not deal with comments that I feel so strongly against. I also know that my feelings are so strong and my blood is still boiling just as much as last night that this needs to be dealt with prior to moving in, prior to wedding.
My fiance and I have been talking about starting a family and it is such a source of joy, but even that has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
Where do I go from here? I really don't think I can just "get over" comments like this. I don't expect him to change, but this feeling I have in the pit of my stomach won't go away.
Re: How to deal with a soon to be FIL that is a chauvinist?
I'm sorry but, there's no way your FIL respects you when he makes these statements in front of you. How long have you been with your FI bc there's no way on earth his father just turned into anasshole overnight.
The fact that your fianc? stood by, let his father talk trash while you were visibly upset is a huge problem. The fact that when you spoke to your fianc?, he saw nothing wrong with these statements, is an even bigger problem.
The only thing i can possibly think of is to avoid politics/women into workforce/ etc. talk about the weather. Talk about the weird squirrel in your backyard that does a chicken dance everytime he finds an acorn. Talk with your FI first, if your FIL brings up the subject, just state that since you have polar opposite views, get him to change the subject. If your FI is unwilling to do this, your relationship is in heap big trouble bc that means he values your FIL over you.
As it stands, your life will always, always be like this you need to look within yourself if you could live a lifetime with the way your relationship is now.
I think your FI is a lot more like your FIL than you realize if he sees nothing wrong with what your FIL said --- and that would scare the sh?t out of me, personally.
a response to all his stupid comments would be
" I understand why you say those things....most men are intimidated by strong women and you are one of those men".
But that does not fix the underlying problem of the FI who finds nothing wrong with these statements. That's the issue here.
For you to actually say these things w/ a 'straight face' really makes me wonder how well you know your FI. He sees nothing wrong w/ what your FIL said. I think your FI didn't fall far from the tree, and my advice it so postpone the wedding and ABSOLUTELY postpone having kids.
You actually need to give yourself more time to discover who your FI really is - because for you to think your FIL respects you, you clearly are not a good judge of character.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
You are a bit silly for being so upset. It sounds like your FIL is an old billygoat with backwards views. I would just smile vacantly and nod. "Oh yes oldman you are so right-barefoot in the kitchen is where I belong" and then go about your life.
Maybe your FI doesnt want to say anything because he knows his Dad is a backward old billygoat and there is no point in trying to change his dad's mind because a stubborn old billygoat doesnt want to hear it.
This!
"Don't marry a man unless you would be PROUD to have a son exactly like him." ~ Unknown
It's possible that your FIL can hold the beliefs he has, and still respect you. Given #9, he's likely "othering" you. It's not uncommon about people who hold bigoted beliefs (kind of like the "But I have black friends!" argument). That doesn't make it right, but could explain why you feel he respects you.
There is nothing you or your FI can do to change his FIL's beliefs. It's up to you to decide how to deal with it. It wouldn't bother me, but I tend to not internalize such things. Other people's wacky opinions don't really bother me. You may not be like me, and that's okay. But you need to figure out if this is something you can live with or not.
I agree, this is your problem. Not your FFIL.
People like your FFIL say things like this because they want the attention. He says controversial things like this because he WANTS to piss you off and WANTS you to argue with him. He's not interested in actually discussing these topics ... he just wants to talk about his viewpoints to whoever will listen. By either preaching about it to people who'll agree with him, or by continually shouting the same bullshiit over and over to those who argue with him. He's not going to be swayed by your counter-arguments, even if you come to his house with spreadsheets, charts and a PowerPoint presentation full of legitimate facts. He just wants to hear himself talk.
If I were you, I would just completely ignore him, because a lack of attention will really get his goat. Don't feed into his conversation and don't respond to his comments. Talk to him about another topic - nothing controversial like gender roles, religion, politics, etc. ... hell, talk about the weather if you have to. Or just don't talk to him at all. Turn your back to him and talk to someone else. If he's talking to someone else and you're within earshot, leave the room or go outside for a walk.
If he's spewing insults directly at you, don't start arguing back, because it's going to be like banging your head against a brick wall. Just calmly say, "Please don't speak to me that way." If he won't knock it off, then you need to quietly get up and leave, without an argument or fuss. Ideally your FI should be telling his dad before that point, "Dad, treat her with respect, otherwise we can't visit with you anymore" and then he needs to follow through with that promise. If he doesn't, then you have a problem and you need to put the wedding plans on hold until you solve it.
If you are REALLY that uncomfortable visiting the in-laws and you can't just ignore FFIL, then don't go along for the visit. Your FI can tell his parents, if they ask, that FFIL is creating a hostile environment and you won't be visiting and won't welcome him into your home until he knocks it off.
I have a relative who also has extreme opinions and bigoted views. At first I tried to reason with him about some of the crazy things that he says, but there isn't really any point. It would just upset me and vindicate him, because all he wants is someone to argue with him. The reality is that everyone knows he is an asshat and he is always going to be one. It is better to just ignore him because it pisses him off more when people won't give him attention. Plus in some ways it is satisfying to let him make a jackass out of himself. I'm guessing your FI is at that point as well.
But if you are concerned about your FI's views, then I would just have a talk with him about it. Maybe start out by saying "FI, what your dad said at dinner the other day really upset me, and I really don't know how to deal with it when he says horrible things. How do you cope with it?"
Pretty much everything that Smace said, especially the bolded. Your FI stood by while you FFIL spewed this garbage. He noticed that you were visibly upset and did nothing. Now you get to decide if you want to deal with that for the rest of your life.
Honestly, I have learned that there are a lot of people who are closed minded, whether on the left on the right. Of course, intelligent people of different mindsets can disagree - and I am not afraid to disagree with people who have a different opinion. However, there are plenty of people with the "we're right and you're wrong" mentality and you can't change them. I honestly think people like that cling to their ideology b/c they are not that intelligent, and I wouldn't (personally) waste time and energy arguing with them.
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably pipe up "yes! I can't wait until Fiance and I start a family, and FI can support me while I stay at home with the baby! I just hope he makes enough money to buy the big house I want!"
Do you think your Fi is silent because he secretly agrees with his Dad or is just to keep the peace? Either way he shows no respect for your feelings. I would not want to have a child and bring them around a grandfather who spewed such nonsense. Next dinner instead of changing the conversation I would be removing myself from their company.
Your Fi could have politely disagreed with his father or at least when you had your conversation said his Dad was an ignorant goat. Instead he did what he did and small wonder you are second guessing him.
btw his Dad neither respects or loves you with his condescending attitude about women. How does he treat his wife? That is the example he set for his son and I would worry about this a lot.
Kuus is right. Some ideas aren't even worth rebutting. You can disagree and still see a stance as legitimate. I disagree with the Catholic church's position on abortion, for example, but I recognize that it's one people of good conscience can reasonably take. Your FFIL's ideas about women aren't like that. They've simply left the realm of acceptable debate. Your fiance may have decided there's nothing to be gained by correcting his father, in which case, I think you should have some fun with him. I'd probably tell him I didn't think men should be trusted in leadership positions because of all the testosterone flooding their bodies. Maybe he'd even believe you.
If your fiance agrees with him, though, run. Run run run run run. Run.
I agree with Kuus.
My grandfather used to talk like your FFIL all the time. My mom ignored him. My dad never spoke up when they were around his parents, but it was only to keep the peace. My grandfather was set in his ways and there was nothing you could do about it no matter how hard you tried.
This never effected my mom at all. She worked in the health care field and she raised 4 kids.
If your FI thinks FFIL's view are legitimate viewpoints then I would walk away! (if not run!)
Oh yeah, and ditto PPs ... if your FI doesn't say anything because he is hoping your FFIL will just shut up, then I think that's fine.
But if your FFIL directly insults you and your FI doesn't step in and tell him to knock it off, then you have a big problem. He's not fit for marriage if he's too afraid of Daddy and Mommy to stand up for his wife.
And if your FI isn't saying anything because he agrees with your FFIL, then run away and don't look back.
Has your fiance asked you to just ignore FFIL? Honestly, if my dad was a pigheaded guy who would go on and on if provoked, and I warned my husband ahead of time about this, and MH went ahead and argued with him anyway ... then I wouldn't say anything because it'd be MH's fault for egging him on. Unless things really got out of hand, I'd just sit there quietly and let MH get himself out of that mess.
I'm with Kuus too. Obviously, if your FI shares his condescending views on women, run. But I can understand that some battles will never be won. My family left communist Poland, and some of the views of my older relatives will never be ones I agree with, but I just avoid those subjects when talking to them. My grandfather had similar views to your FFIL. That said, he was a great father to my dad and, believe it or not, great husband to my grandmother- she never worked a day of her life (and did not want to), and he provided for her and took pride in making her happy. I also never saw him treat her with disrespect. It was just the way their culture worked, and they were both happy.
You need to get to the bottom of whether your FI truly shares those views, or if he just knows that he will never change his dad's mind.
You set him up with your comment.
You know how your fil is, don't give
him the fuel.
so...you're basically going to ignore the very sound advice you've received because it wasn't what you wanted to hear? I would love to hear your answer to some of the questions that were asked of you.
honestly, it sounds like your FI does agree with his father from what you've said. I sure hope you're prepared to deal with that if you actually marry this guy.
This is me. I have been a Naval Officer for the past 7 years. My H is a Marine Corps Officer. My H knew I would not give up my career when we met. If he didn't support me, I would not have married him.
My in-laws definitely think I should get out and be home with my DD. But that's not going to happen. You need your H's support.
What was it that you wanted to hear?
Who insulted you? Did they delete?
She never said she was going to ingore the advice she was given. She is thanking us for the advice, and thanking us for not jumping on her and insulting her like she's seen in many other threads.
Kristyngeorge: I'm glad it helped. Sometimes you have to hear the opinions of others to help you sort out how you feel.