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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Re: @: Have you heard of the "total extinction" CIO sleep routine?
I wonder if its the same pedi my H's cousin used. He told them the same thing....at 6 weeks old. They were supposed to leave their daughter alone in the room for at least 10 hours no matter how long she cried.
They switched docs
For the life of me I will never understand the need for method from a book in order to parent or force a baby to do something it is not able to do.
Baby cries, baby needs you. Simple, see.
Did you get blasted for comparing a child to a dog?
No, for defining the term "extinction" and pointing out that most sleep training books use it incorrectly.
Apparently that's a bad thing.
But I was already on shaky ground for telling them they were being silly and that the full moon wasn't going to pull the baby out of their uterus. And had the temerity to cite scholarly articles to back it up.
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Exactly!
But I think this is the problem with TOO much knowledge now. People research every little thing and feel like thier baby has to fit the "norm". I can't tell you how many mothers you see on the bump who are frenzied because their 6 week old isn't meeting "normal" milestones. They are freaking out because their baby isn't talking, walking, rolling over, etc. when the BOOKS say they should be.
I feel so sorry for these mothers because they are causing themselves so much unneccessary anxiety. Babies are just like people and normal is relative.
I read way too many books with #1 and I have to say that I have enjoyed parenting so much more with each subsequent child because I've backed off and started listening to my "mommy gut" instead of measuring my children against the advice of parenting books.
I did the same thing with J. And like you not because I thought he needed to be STTN but because I recognized there was nothing I could do and he needed to fuss a bit. It just became part of our routine and actually wasn't hard because he never was full on crying. Just vocalizing his little cranks as we called it. I think as mothers we know our kids and know what they need. So I just don't believe in hard and fast rules about don't do this until this age or don't do this during this circumstance. We know our kids better than that.
But just leaving a baby in there for 10 hours would not fly with me and I can't imagine it would with most.
Listen you. Stop making sense and have me up for some liver and onions already
We have so much in common to have so little in common KWIM!
For real.
Once my work drama dies down I will make a trip to Bean Town, I would love to meet you!!
While I agree, copz, I can also see the flipside. When you're on zero hours of sleep and the baby won't stop crying, won't sleep, is flip-flopping between cluster feeding and screaming, etc., it can be hard to NOT want to turn to "experts". Especially for those who have no support network beyond the internet and a stack of books and little experience with infants before they became parents.
H bought the Wiessbluth book. I hid it when I saw it was making him more crazy.
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Yay! We could always meet somewhere halfway too, but I don't think the liver and onions will taste as good lukewarm
I am a big big supporter of sleep books. Happiest Baby on the Block was my bible and seriously saved my life those first couple months. I could see how if you have a really adverse baby to their methods why it would drive you crazy. But I loved the guidance and really think they helped us have an easy going, good sleeper. Or maybe he was always like that? IDK, but I do know some tips I picked up early on were priceless. Like putting him down awake so he learned early on how to put himself to sleep. That was cash money right there. The 5 Ss was great too. Just stuff like that. It all seemed very natural, but I just needed someone to tell me to do it I guess.
We will see with this next one if I am a big believer in the sleep books again.
I agree with this. I'm not sure if I'd be nearly as instinctual of a parent if I didn't spend the years before I had children as a babysitter, nanny, and day care provider. Or if I didn't have a good mom I could call and talk to whenever.
Click me, click me!
What you say makes perfect sense, but I guess I have a problem with the fact that relying on experts via a book or the internet makes you miss your own childs cues. I also hate the double speak. Do this, but every child is different..you read or hear that with any advice. Either your methodology works all the time or it doesn't if you want to make your living off of preying on sleep deprived or stressed parents. Does that make sense?
How dare you!
I got flack on my BMB for indicating that I preferred not to spank if I didn't need to, and would prefer to use positive reinforcement and negative punishment. Apparently, that's a dog-training method that can't be applied to other species.
I'm with KA - surely they misunderstood their pediatrician. My understanding of extinction CIO was not the periodic checks, but that instead you let them fuss/cry for up to 30-45m w/out going into calm them down. Not that you left them in a room for 10 hours unattended.
I read a few books (Weissbluth, Baby Whisperer) when I had Jackson. I think they have their value, but I also think you need to be able to think about what they are saying and apply it to your own situation, not follow it blindly, which is where I see the problems arise on the bump. Any label/book you follow for parenting should not be followed to the letter - you need to follow your baby's lead, your needs, your family's needs, etc., as well.
I'm glad I read those books b/c they gave me some invaluable tips - like putting the baby down awake, what amount of sleep is necessary for a baby of a particular age, that sleep begets sleep, and that an overtired baby will not be able to calm down and go to sleep. Those things are my mantra, and both of my kids are unbelievably good sleepers. Without reading those books, I wouldn't have known those things - and TBH, I think those books helped me avoid sleep training b/c I followed those things. We never had any habits we had to break.
It does.
It's just hard to think that coherently when you're in the moment. We've all been there, we all know what it feels like to be so sleep deprived that you feel like you're losing your mind.
I had the good luck to have had 8 nieces and nephews, who I'm very close to and had a lot of experience with at all ages and temperaments. So I was not a novice with infants when I had B. And even then, there were days, man. There.were.days.
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when they're little babies i agree. now that the boys are a bit older, jack "crying" isn't usually CRYING. it's him f*cking with us. he's been doing it since about 9 months but DH didn't want to believe it. so, being the awesome mom that i am, i made DH go in when jack cried. then the doctor affirmed that it's a habit instead of a need and then DH stopped going in and WOW! jack FINALLYFUKKINGSLEPTTHROUGHTHENIGHT.
jack also sucks like that.
ben is my favorite son right now.
I'm kind of between copz & cdl - I am queen of reading. I read three books before spawning, and the bump just to get a survey of others' experience. I still regularly check in with all of them, and have been known to google while nursing at 12am when he usually doesn't wake until 4. (MrP is less on the reading, but also heavy on the goog).
However, I learned quickly that it's apparent when your kid is on a tail end of the bell curve. When he was taking 2oz bottles of formula in the NICU on day 2 and the book said his stomach shouldn't be that big, I learned the book is talking in statistical norms, and not every kid fits that.
I'm a pretty unemotional (here's where I would use the strikeout font for parent) person, so while I differ from copz in that way, ITA with the above. It's pretty damn clear to me when A is fussing and there's nothing I can do about it, and when he's crying and not able to settle himself back down. Now, I didn't have that down by month 1, but by month 4? Sure. And no amount of time, not 5 min, not 20 min, not 10 hours, is going to calm a kid that isn't developmentally capable of calming themselves yet. So why are you stressing yourself out trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole?
I will say that I don't understand checking on a quiet baby. Maybe it's because mine doesn't move around really in his sleep yet, but if he's not complaining, my thought is that if he's in danger, he's in a danger I can't fix. Has anyone ever checked on a quiet baby and gotten anything other than piece of mind?
The idea of leaving a 4 month old for 10 HOURS without checking on him/her at all is completely heartbreaking to me. I'm not against CIO and I personally wasn't comfortable with it until K was close to a year old even though the books *say* you can start at 6 months. I agree with AW in that parents work themselves up because of the wealth of knowledge out there on what is 'normal.'
I think they like to say they know what's true for EVERY child, but in reality, it's the 80% of the bell curve. So that book is awesome for most kids, but if you're in that 10% on the wrong end - sorry.
I think I should disclaim here that A has been known to sleep 10 hours without waking; he probably first did it at 10 weeks or so? So I don't know hell and I should probably STFU.
Click me, click me!
I think this is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as the OP about leaving a kid in a room for 10 hours+ no matter what you hear coming from that room.
Both of my kids were sleeping 11-12 hours at 4m old. It's called overnight diapers (they've had one diaper rash between the two of them and it was due to antibiotics), and Jackson certainly wasn't underweight - he was off the charts. Scarlett was smaller, but our pediatrician assured us that we did not need to wake her to eat b/c she was meeting milestones and certainly didn't look underweight, in any way. STTN at 4m old isn't that uncommon, and it doesn't mean a child is neglected, underweight and rashy. Please.
I think a lot of books leave out the fact that just because there are kids who do certain things at certain ages, doesn't mean you can "train" any baby to do so.
For instance, just because Pescalita's kid sleeps for 10 hours straight, doesn't mean that my kid can do so even if I let them CIO for weeks.
Click me, click me!
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Some adults can sleep through the night and some can't without waking to pee. Some adults need to eat every 8 hours and some can go longer. Some adults can't sleep with another person in the bed and others need to feel someone close to sleep well.
I don't understand why we can't all agree that babies are the same.
Listen to your baby's cues and do what is best for your entire family. Period.
Ha. I posted this last night before going to bed. I should have known it would blow up!
Just to clarify, I wasn't the one asking for sleep help. It was someone else on 3-6 months. I have the opposite problem, if you can call it that. My baby is a sleeper! She slept 11 hours last night (so no one thinks I'm trashy, she got a dream feed at 11 and goes to bed in a super duper nighttime cloth diaper)! And we just nursed and now she's sleeping again! She's been this way since day 1. We have had maybe two nights in the first week where she cries in the middle of the night. But other than that, our typical routine is me waking her up to eat. I have read no books (aside from watching the Happiest Baby on the Block video before she was born), there has been no sleep training. This is just the way she is, I guess. I feel like a lazy parent. In fact, after talking to friends and reading here and the bump I wonder if there is something WRONG with my child because it seems like the norm is to struggle with sleep and she hasn't. (Now I have no idea how she will react when we transition her to her crib in her room or when I go back to work).
I'm not opposed to some CIO techniques if need be. But the idea of letting a 4 month old CIO for 10 hours sounds horrifying. I get images of those poor kids in Romania.