Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Intro (LONG-sorry)
Hi everyone. My name is Ashley, and my husband and I have been married 4 years (together for 7 years), and I'm seriously concerned about whether we'll make it to our 5th anniversary based on the way things are going right now. We have a 15-month old daughter, and over the past year, we have drifted apart. We went through infertility treatment to have our daughter, and then I was on bedrest for the last 8 weeks of my pregnancy due to stress-related complications (caused by work). Through all of this, my husband was extremely caring and things were going well, despite everything that we were going through. Initially after our daughter was born, we were okay too, but over the last year, we have definitely drifted apart as we have put a lot of our time and energy into trying to be good parents to our daughter, both work full-time, and up until last week I was also a full-time student (we decided that I should take a break until this fall when I go back part-time instead). All of this left our marriage in last place on the list of priorities and it has suffered considerably. Besides that, I have very poor self esteem these days. I have made it back down to my pre-pregnancy weight, but I am covered in stretch marks from my thighs up to my boobs, and my boobs are relatively saggy from breastfeeding. I know that many mothers go through this, and it's nothing new, but lately I think my self esteem issues have caused more problems than normal.
My husband tries to reassure me that he still loves me and thinks that I'm beautiful, but he rarely shows much affection to me anymore, unless he is trying to have sex with me. And, sex no longer seems like making love by any means...it doesn't seem to mean much at all anymore.
Lately, he has been traveling a lot lately for work (1 week in February, and 2 weeks so far in March), and I'm having an issue with his porn intake while on the road. Please tell me if you think I'm over-reacting on this one... before I go on, I must say that this is not an issue at home, only when he is out of town, but it bothers me nonetheless. When he was out of town in February, I saw a charge go through on our debit card for a prepaid porn site. He bought 240 minutes, and this was on Tuesday. We had just had sex on Sunday night before he left. The old me probably wouldn't have over-reacted so much, but then again, our sex life and intimacy level was a lot better before. Things like this make my mind wander, being this would put this at 2 days since we did anything, and we NEVER have sex that often anymore, and it's not me turning him down, more often than not, it is the other way around. Couple this with my self esteem issues, and I took it pretty hard. Anyway, when he came home that weekend, we had my parents take our daughter for the weekend so we could take some time to try to work through things. He promised that he would stop watching porn while he was out of town for work (at least for now) because of how much it bothered me. Now, fast forward to last week. He was out of town again, and when he came home on Friday, I asked about his week, and he told me that he watched porn on Thursday night, one night and that was all. I was upset, it ruined our evening, but I forgave him and moved on as I can handle a little slip up, and am trying to be an understanding wife. Anyway, now fast forward to this week. I happened to open Firefox instead of my usual Chrome browser and went to gmail. He has his credentials saved, so it automatically logged in to his inbox instead of mine. Here is an email from adultdvdempire with a password change on 3/12/12 (last Monday). I then logged onto his adultdvdempire account and found his history. He watched a fair amount of porn on 3/13, 3/14, and 3/15. Not only did he break his promise to me?he had full intentions to do so by Monday night when he got there, then proceeded to watch porn on Tuesday, Wednesday, AND Thursday. And then, he LIED to me about it. I am really a forgiving person. I can forgive him for making the mistake, but I am taking the lying pretty hard. I told him exactly how I felt about this, he promised me he wouldn?t do it, and then he did and lied to me about it. Please tell me if I?m over-reacting on this one. But right now, I?m feeling extremely hurt and alone on this. I feel like our marriage is falling apart, and I?m really hoping we can save it. Am I crazy on this? Should I be totally ok with porn? I?ve never really liked it, but went along and was ok with it to please my husband. Now, after having our daughter, I really have a problem with it. Since she was born, we?ve only watched porn together twice, and both times, it got more attention than me. In fact, I was pushed out of the way because I was blocking the TV. This causes some serious issues for me.
Anyway, I?m sorry this got so long. I just needed to vent to someone. Thanks for listening if you?ve made it this far.
Re: Intro (LONG-sorry)
First off, please tell me you are not actively TTC while all this is going on. If you are, WTH? You need to sort out your issues before you bring another child into this marriage.
The issue here isn't the porn, it's the lying. You guys need to have some serious talks. It sounds like you are trying to be reasonable but him lying to your face isn't cool.
Have you talked to him about the intimacy issues and how you're feeling about yourself lately, or has it all been about the porn?
I'd be far more pissed that he's paying for porn than his actual watching it.
In any case, I'd be livid that he's such a lying liar. I do think it was unrealistic to ask him to stop watching it and a bit silly to equate his out of town porn habits with your sex life. But that doesn't excuse the fact that he seemingly agrees to shiit to shut you up and has no intention of keeping his promise.
Like Motzie, I want to know if you've discussed how you feel about yourself and your sexual relationship with your husband. The fact of the matter is even if he never watched another minute of porn it wouldn't solve the real issue. That's what you should be talking about.
Click me, click me!
It's okay to be upset about porn, but you need to stop being wishy-washy about it. You said it was okay, you continue to watch it with him, then get all handswringy about him watching it when he is nowhere near you.
Of course he lied to you about it. You are being inconsistent in what you say you want vs what you actually want vs what your actions say you want, and I'm sure when you had that discussion he had a kneejerk response of, oh no dear of course not. Yes, the lying is an issue in general, but I think you need to get down to the real reason you feel so unconnected to and so unloved by your H... and frankly it's not porn. And you need to stop TTC while you figure this out.
What kind of moron pays for porn these days though, seriously.
No, we are not actually actively TTC right now...that is all on hold. I didn't check my siggy before posting.
Thank you the advice. I agree entirely. I have talked to him about the intimacy issues and how I've been feeling, and why exactly I'm having an issue with the porn. Honestly, the porn isn't the issue deep down. It's the issues with our marriage and then adding the porn over top of it. I can be "ok" with the porn when our marriage is in a strong place, but when he's breaking promises, and lying to me, I can't be okay with everything. It doesn't make it any easier when he's in and out of town. I did get to talk to him tonight after I posted and I told him how I was feeling. Apparently he didn't take what I said seriously before, and apologized. I just hope that something actually changes. He did agree to go to marriage counseling with me in a few weeks once things calm down at work...so that's a start. I really want this to work out...I'm just scared and lost.
Thanks for the honest advice ladies! I appreciate it!
When I said I've watched porn with him, that was before I expressed my issues with it and before he promised not to watch it. I really have been wishy washy about it and that is my own fault. The truth of the matter is that I know it's absolutely asinine to expect him to never watch porn...I mean what guy doesn't. I realize that. But, another part of me can't help that I'm just not comfortable with it...and it's not so much the porn itself, but more where we're at with our marriage right now, our intimacy issues, and then adding porn on top of it. And, I agree, paying for porn is really dumb considering how much free stuff is out there, but he does have a reasoning behind it believe it or not...
It's his work laptop that he uses, and he doesn't want it to get a virus. Ugh...
Anyway, I did talk to him some more about it tonight (it doesn't help that he's out of town), and he apologized, and said he didn't take what I had said seriously, which I can see to an extent because I have been wishy washy and up and down the fence. It's the lying that really gets to me...he's never lied to me like that (at least not that I know of), and it hit me hard. I told him that I want to go to marriage counseling to work through our issues and he agreed to go with me in a few weeks to try to work things out and save our marriage...so that's a good step.
Thanks again ladies!
I would be furious that he's spending money on porn. You are a growing family and there's no room in the family budget for that type of expense.
I woldn't tolerate much more of this nonsense if I were you. The lying has to stop and so does the porn watching.
I would tell him very kindly that if he lies to you again about anything, he'll find his ass out the door. He cannot be trusted at this point.
What I would be upset about in your shoes:
1) The lying to your face to shut you up. He knows how the porn viewing makes you feel & does it anyway. The acknowledgment & disrespect factor would piss me off more than the actual porn viewing.
2) The pissing away good money on porn when there is a shyt-ton of free porn out there.
3) Your H needs to understand that sometimes you'd like affection that doesn't always lead to intercourse. If he gets lovey-dovetail just to get some action it feels fake (or at least it would to me). Show me that you love me, value me & respect me outside the bedroom & things will most likely be popping in the bedroom.
I understand that the journey through IF, a hard pregnancy & getting used to parenthood has left y'all in need of a tune-up. Get into some marriage counseling & have some honest discussions with a 3rd party professional to facilitate.
Also, I am with Broc on speaking plainly. Either you are OK with porn or not. Say what you mean & mean what you say. You are shooting yourself in the foot by sending mixed signals about it. Either way the lying husband BS needs to end & true communication of wants/needs needs to be* ratcheted up.
Good luck.
ETA: autocorrect made some funny errors. :P
He shouldn't lie to you about this. That is not healthy behavior on his part.
Also, I'd be upset if he was not only paying for it but downloading it on his work provided laptop. People get fired over that sort of thing.
I think the porn and your reaction to it is a symptom of the problem not the actual problem. By focusing on that instead of your underlying feelings you're making the issues more complicated.
I'd strongly suggest individual and couples counseling for you. Personally, it doesn't bug me if DH watches porn, but especially when I'm unavailable so to speak.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I'll put it out there that porn does a marriage no good. Inevitably, eventually it brings problems of one description or another. Many will disagree, 'not cool' to admit that porn can be the issue on its own. It is often comorbid with other deficits within a relationship, yes. But on its own doesn't do anyone any favors in the long run.
Regardless of my opinion, your opinion is what matters here. Porn is not something you are ok with now, even if you were ok with it in the past. He needs to come to terms with this and it may be no easy task. People (men often) get hooked on porn the same as they can get hooked on a drug. It stimulates similar areas of the brain. He may well be saying with best intentions he will not look at porn again but the craving for it will be real. To truly quit porn, he may need help.
As for buying porn and downloading it onto his work computer (to avoid viruses -- eyeroll) that needs to stop STAT. He will get fired.
You two obviously need to reconnect. Throwing a child into a marriage is hard at the best of times. Find a therapist and give yourselves a chance.
When things calm down at work? Uhm no. Because things will always be a hot mess at work or at least that's what he'll say.
Make the time. Make it now.
Click me, click me!
You're an idiot.
I take it back. Porn is great! It makes marriages better and healthier. Sex lives are improved because of porn. Porn should be required viewing for everyone because it really improves the quality of life.
I agree to an extent Kuus, but they've watched porn together since (meaning she clearly gave the green light in some capacity), and her kid is older than Joaquin. I'm definitely well aware that every woman's body handles pregnancy differently, but there's only so long you can use 'but we just had a kid!' as an excuse for being disconnected from your marriage.
I really think the porn AND the lying about it are both red herrings here. I don't think she'd care so much about either if they were more invested in the marriage and not on being martyry superest parents or whatever.
1.) The lying is the real problem.
2.) Who the fuuuck pays for porn anymore??
3.) If they're not having sex regularly and he's out of town is he supposed to not jerk off at all? Thats pretty lame.
4.) Dude sounds like an ass, OP has been wishy washy and given mixed messages about the porn issue.
5.) PORN RUINS EVERYTHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
I don't NEED porn to get off with masturbation, but I PREFER it. Guess I have a porn problem. When can I get my next fix?
And seriously, why should he have to "quit" porn when she's been giving him mixed messages about it being ok, then not ok, then ok etc. He had the impression given by her that it was totally fine initially and now she's crying takesie-backsies? Sorry, I think that's dumb and pretty illogical to expect him to never look at porn again.
I DO think they need an assload of counseling because they're both lying liars with underlying issues and a lot of douchebaggery involved.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
You're an idiot.
Okay, I really appreciate the comments ladies. Just to clarify a few things. My H has committed to marriage counseling with me, as I think everyone can agree at this point it is definitely needed. When I say when his work slows down a little bit, I mean when he is back in town and not scheduled to leave again right away (so within the next couple weeks.).
I know I've been wishy washy on the porn thing. I have never liked it, but before our daughter was born, I was ok with it. He used to watch it at home too on a regular basis, and I was not okay with that, and made that clear to him. Our compromise was that I was "ok" with it when he was out of town and I was "unavilable". Now that we've had our daughter and my body has changed, and our marriage is where it's at right now, I'm just not okay with it anymore. It hurts when he doesn't want to have sex with me but he's okay with watching porn and jerking off daily. Now, that's not to say I'm not okay with him jerking off. I've never told him he couldn't, and that part doesn't bother me, it's the porn I'm not okay with.
I've watched porn with him twice since we had our daughter because he asked me to, I tried to be okay with it being I was in the past, and I gave in to try to be the good, cool wife that is 100% ok with porn. That didn't work out well, obviously, and I told him how I felt about it. And to that effect, it's not truly the porn watching that is at the root of my issues with all of this right now, it simply the fact that he promised me he wouldn't and the same night he left he accessed his porn account and then lied to my face about it when he came home. I can certainly forgive him for watching porn, that's not that HUGE of an offense, but I can not handle the lying. I told him this flat out when we spoke last night and told him I can't keep going like this. He apologized over and over and I told him I forgive him, but that the trust is going to hard to get back.
As for the porn on his work laptop, in any normal company, yes this would be a huge issue. However, his company is not a normal company at all. The president of his company sends inappropriate images via email to the guys at work all the time. So, on the work front, he is ok, and not in any danger of his job, believe it or not. I too think that it is stupid, but that is his stance.
As for the parenting thing...I know we're not good parents when we're not strong in our marriage. I do know that. The truth is we put too much on our plate, didn't focus on each other, and our marriage has suffered considerably. That is our fault and it is taking a toll for sure. We put on a happy face around our daughter, who at 15 months doesn't understand any of this. But, we try to be happy and together around her. We've been trying to work on our marriage too (over the past few months), but it hasn't been enough. My H doesn't know how to talk about things and shuts down entirely. He gets defensive and does nothing but defend himself and say "I'm sorry" to everything when I express my feelings. This is where I think marriage counseling will help out. And, I know I certainly can't blame all of this on just having a baby -- she's 15 months old and we've certainly had time to adjust. At this point, she's not reason, the reason is because we let things slide, we haven't talked about things, and now, the lying.
Are you actively initiating sex or are you just sitting there giving off "subtle hints" that you want to have sex? YOU have to initiate as well, you can't expect him to do all the work.
Have you sat down and told him, "Look, after having our daughter I feel this way about my body/whether or not you're attracted to me/our intimacy level/whatever and I really need you to do XYZ in order to feel like you still find me desirable and want to have sex with me, and btw what do you need from me as well?"
Ashley, I'm sorry you are struggling so much with your own self esteem post-pregnancy. I think it would do you a world of good to have individual counseling on top of marriage counseling. Taking ownership in this issue will help you deal with the issues your marriage.
Marriage counseling will definitely help you both with the communication issues. He shuts down, gets defensive, and apologies profusely as a coping mechanism. Similarily, the way you are dealing with him and how he responds to you are also coping mechanisms. The counseling can teach you both how to communicate to one another and learn new coping mechanisms to deal with one another in a healthier fashion.
I know for me personally, my husband and I both come from a very different upbringing, so sometimes his way of dealing with an issue isn't how I may deal with it, and every now and again I remind him that we deal with situations differently purely because of how we have learned to up until this point in our lives. Personalities and ways of coping with situations aren't things that can just be changed over night. It truly takes work.
I think one of the biggest red flags in all your posts in this thread is the fact that he lied to you. Everything else put aside, that is a serious problem. You both need to get to the root of the reason why he felt the need to lie to you. I agree that it really isn't about the porn. There is a serious communication breakdown in your marriage if lying is occuring.
I know that you think that because your daughter is only 15 months that she "doesn't understand any of this" as you put it...but I have to tell you, "putting on a happy face" doesn't mean much if your body language, tone in your voice with your husband, and tension exist. She doesn't have to intellectually understand your issues to sense that something is wrong....This is HUGE in the psychological stages that babies and toddlers grow through. It isn't just about how you talk to her and how you teach her. She observes everything right down to affection you do or do not share with your husband...
I hope you and your husband benefit from marriage counseling, and I hope you are both equally committed to working together to make serious changes.
Yes, I actually have done ALL of this. I have tried actively initiating sex multiple times, that is why it is so upsetting. I tried the subtle hints and they didn't go ANYWHERE, so I began initiating things, and also getting shot down. He has a million excuses, mostly "I'm tired", even if we go to bed early.
And, yes, I've sat down and talked to him about how I feel about my body, and that I don't feel loved/attractive, and this is what I need from you to feel better about things. He tried for 2 days, and then it stopped and things went back to the way they were.
I just don't get it at this point, but I really am hoping that counseling will help because I do want to save our marriage and be there for each other and our daughter.
Thank you! I really appreciate your honest advice on this. I know our daughter picks up on these things, the mood, the tension, etc. and that is one of the reasons I want to work to fix it.
I know I have issues, between my self esteem issues, and previous baggage I've brought along. Most I've moved past, and some I'm still trying. I am trying to communicate better with H, but it's a change that as you said will take work.
Ashley, I can relate to you on the level of self esteem issues. I understand that when you throw issues with your sex life on top of that it can really take a toll.
You can and you will work through your self esteem issues. A lot of it will have to be your doing which is why I suggested individual counseling as I think that you really could benefit from it.
As far as trying to initiate sex with your husband only to be denied and dealing with throwing porn into the mix.....well, I truly believe a lot of this is happening because of the breakdown in communication in your marriage. As I said before, I truly don't think porn is the real issue (and I don't think you do), but I do think you both need to have a serious talk about how you both feel about porn and it being interjected into your marriage. You have bounced around too much with him on this, and it's obviously a big deal to you. You need to know that your feelings matter. Telling him not to watch porn is not realistic. He's not your child, he's your husband. I think you should both get to a place where you compromise on it...a place where you are both okay with it.
When you are both able to work together through issues you will definitely feel a lot more connected as a couple. When you are connected as a couple, you'll be far better parents for your baby.
Sounds like he's on the boat for going to therapy which is huge...sounds like he too wants to work on things. Good luck!