Family Matters
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Re: .
Where exactly did I call you stupid? And you are immature, the human brain is not fully developed in a 20 year old. That is one reason, of many, why I disagree with children getting married. And your post above about his family shows that you are immature.
And no, I don't believe that politicians that can be bribed are independent, responsible adults. Age only has so much to do with being an adult.
Honestly, you can't see why someone's parents might disagree with the child they are supporting making decisions they do not believe to be in the best long-term interest of said child? Changing from a Biology major to What majors?!!! What exactly is his career path after he graduates? That alone would concern me. And yes, it is good to follow your passions, but while being realistic--what exactly are the career opportunities available with that combination of majors? Then add in him moving in with someone that disrespects me and considers me the worst person she has ever met? And that they have spent money on down payment for a pretty princess party when they can not yet fully support themselves? (Sorry, *you* aren't fully supporting yourself, you are going to school on scholarships--which is great for you, but please understand, that is a huge level of support you are getting-would you be able to pay your full tuition yourself?) If you can't see things from their point of view, then again, re-enforcing your immaturity.
Yeah, they have financially saved for their child to get schooling to advance the kids earning potential, they are concerned about decisions their kid is making. Yeah, worst people ever.
You think I'm being rude. I'm being blunt and honest with you. You are seeing things from a 20-year-olds point of view, I'm seeing them from the view point of someone old enough to have a 20-year-old kid.
Then why do my 50 year old parents agree with me? If I wasn't in school I would be FULLY supporting myself. How dare you say I have not EARNED my scholarship. That is horrible.
And no, they have done many other things to be before my opinion changed into what it is. For the first 7-8 months, I had nothing but a good opinion of them. Why would I be so stupid as to think someone is a bad person for no reason?
OP, I understand where you're coming from. Young does not necessarily mean foolish or ignorant or entitled, and I don't think you're being unreasonable here. I'd be just as upset if a freely given gift was 'confiscated' thanks to meddling. Whatever his mother feels about you or your relationship, she had no right to touch funds that weren't hers. (Legally, fine, joint account=joint access=joint $. Still a scummy thing to do to anyone, let alone your own kid.)
But. I really think postponing your wedding is a good idea. Not because Mommy says so, because she doesn't get a say, but because there are definite advantages to waiting. If you've just moved in together, why not enjoy that step for a while? You will learn so much about each other over the next couple of years. (Really!) Why not make sure you can handle each other's quirks and bad habits before you commit to them for the rest of your life? Assuming that you're happily married 50 years from now, is it really going to matter that you got married in 2013 vs. 2018?
Postponing the wedding would mean more savings, more focus on school (planning is hard work and takes a fair amount of time and effort), more time to 'test drive' and allow your relationship to age and evolve, and the minor side benefit of placating Mommy Dearest. You'll appreciate a good relationship with your in-laws in your marriage, even if they are horrible.
I tried to convince my little sister not to rush into marriage with a guy she's been dating for 3 months. It didn't work. They've already bought a condo together and the wedding is this August. Obviously your relationship isn't from "nice to meet you" to "I do" in 7 months like hers is- but please be wise and take your time like she should be doing.
And congratulations on your scholarships. Methinks the poster who begrudges you them wishes she had qualified.
Again, where did I say you didn't earn your scholarship? You keep accusing me of writing things I have not written here. Stating that a scholarship is a huge amount of support you are receiving in no way, shape, or form says you didn't earn it.
And again, the fact that you aren't even willing to see things from his parents viewpoint speaks volumes about you, IMO.
According to you, your parents have not supported you in two years. Haven't given you a dime, provided you a roof over your head, or given you gas money--so of course their viewpoint is going to be different from parents that have been providing financial support to their child up to this point. The point isn't if you can find people that agree with you, it's being able to see the validity of a viewpoint that is different than yours.
Do I think it was "right" for his parents to take money his grandparents had given him? No, but your FI did put the money in an account you even admit he didn't control in reality. You say his mom always managed the money in that account, he didn't use it. I can however see that they are making a last ditch attempt to influence your FI to make better decisions.
Your FI has a choice here, either cut his family out of his life and live with the consequences of that decision or listen to his parents, take their advice and financial support, and deal with the consequences that come with that. Other than you being one of the consequences in either of his decisions, this really isn't your issue. Really, you should be letting him make this decision himself. If you push him to cut off his family at this point, he will very likely blame you for that at some point in the future--not good for you. If he makes the second choice, and you two are meant to be together, then you will end up together. You making his decision your business really doesn't have any long term positives for you--let him be the Man you think he is and do this himself.
Thanks. My FI has been trying to get a hold of his mom all night, but she hasn't answered. He wants to sit down and talk to her.
I really appreciate your opinion on waiting and actually one of the reasons we want to get married sooner is because I don't want to try planning a wedding during my senior year while writing one to two theses, and making moving plans for across the country. But I can completely understand where you are coming from. My parents have expressed that they wish we would wait as well, but they are happy for us and will support us no matter what.
Waiting is something we have considered, and it is still a possibility (we won't lose our deposit if we change our date) and something we still consider. My sister was with her husband for a year or two before getting married, and now they have a child and for the past few months their relationship has been rocky with the possibility of divorce. My parents got engaged and married within a year of meeting each other (and my mom had already been married/divorced before) and they are still together today. My grandma got married at 16 and she has been with my grandpa for over 50 years. This doesn't justify us, but proves that everyone is different.
I wish all the best for your sister and I thank you for your kind words, advice and concern.
Op we only have the information you give us to go on. If you think everyone is getting it wrong it is because you are explaining it badly. You have to give us adequate information for us to give you adequate advice.
Even if you got everyone on the entire nest to agree with you, it won't make it easier to make his parents like the idea of you two being married. I get your side of the story but my god so the eff down and smell the roses. No legal document will make him love you more than he does already, nor will it make his commitment to you stronger. This may seem to be primarily about money but mostly it is about you two rushing into things and his family's responding to it.
No matter how horrible his family is, it is his blood. He can cut them off but you can't. I spent my entire early 20's learning that with my FI. You have to let him come to the conclusion that his family is horrible and he is the best. (Which I doubt but hey it's the only info I have to go on) And until he does, you have to bite your tongue, play nice and compromise even if it feels like you are about to get thrown in a snakes den.
Is it fair? No. Does it sound fun? No. Is it what mostly 20 year old engaged girls want to do? No. BUT you have to do it if you really love your FI. If you do love him it wouldn't matter if he was getting married 3 years after you both wanted to because his mom holds his college fund like an umbilical cord. Since it bugs you enough to post it, you should re-evaluate if you want to spend your whole life dealing with in-laws like this.
You're welcome, OP. I wish you luck. I think the best thing for your FI to do is cut off all parental financial support, since it obviously comes with strings. It's sad, but I'm sure what his mother has done has put a black mark on their relationship, and your relationship with your future MIL. Hopefully that can be repaired, if you both feel it is worth it.
I applaud your willingness to consider postponing the wedding, and I hope this is what you and your FI choose. There are just so many reasons not to rush. As much as I hate the phrase "you'll understand when you're older", time does make a difference in your perspective of the virtues of patience.
I can see where both sides are coming from with this issue. I'd be upset about the missing money from the grandparents. But really, if you have a joint account with anyone, that is the risk you run. I'd cut ties with the family financially and re-budget to living totally on your own.
As far as getting married, I'm not going to judge. I had moved in with my (now) DH by 20 and we got married when I was 23. I'm 30 now and we're still happily married with a great kid. BUT (and I consider this a very important point) by 22 we were both done with college and I was done with grad school. So we'd been totally out of school and living on our own for over a year before we got married. It was still hard to be young, broke newlyweds but at least we'd been in the "real world" for a while before we made it permanent. The fact is that school is sort of practice adulthood. It gives you a sense of freedom but there are a million safety nets in place too. Nowhere else will you be able to find housing/utilities/food etc that reasonably priced. Living on your own after graduation is a totally different story.
So good luck with whatever you decide. And never, ever share a bank account with family members again
The way you describe the account sounds like it may have been a UTMA. His name was on the title, he never accessed the funds, she would pay bills out of it, and she transferred the money out before his 21st birthday. All of these make it sound like a UTMA, in which case, it was never his money, and the funds were not joint. She was the custodian of all of the money in the account, and he had and has no legal access to it, regardless of whose name was on the check being deposited.
I'm not even going to comment on how you should wait to get married.
Suddenly my life doesn't seem such a waste,
It all revolves around you.
sorry but these are NOT good reasons to rush getting married. wait until after all of that and THEN get married.
imo-at 20 and still in schol life you really don't have much of an idea of what real life is like. i'm not saying that you're not doing ok now-it sounds like you're on the right track-but that's school life and is completely different from reality.
i too could have a 20 year old daughter. I too thought that I was ready to get married in my early 20s. i thank god every day that I didn't. you may be right-you may be life long partners adn the love of each other's lives-which is awesome-but please do things in a way that shows more mature decisions and more importantly gives you the ability to put your attention where it needs to be for now-finish school, get your jobs, your houses etc.. and then get married. if you're still right for each other a year, 2 years after you graduate-do it then.
back to your original questions though-his mom sounds like she's fed up wtih him (and you). if i had a son that decided what your boyfriend did I'd pull funding too-that money was there for school-not for anything else. i'm not saying that he has taken any money for anything else but you said yourself that he can ALMOST pay for all of his living expenses. ALMOST. he's still reliant on mom and dad. and just paying for living expenses isn't enough. and you can save $75 a month?! wow. lucky girl. you can go see a movie and fill a car with gas on that. it's nothing. it's nowhere NEAR what you need to be saving. this is where her issue comes in. you dont know what will happen after graduation. you dont know if one or both or neither of you will have good paying jobs or jobs at all. a degree doesn't automatically equal success or good pay. it only means you've finished a course of study.
while i think his mom did a super sh!tty thing i can kind of see her reasoning. i think she went about it badly. i think it was a sneaky way of getting her way-but that's what happens when you have a bank account that someone else can control.
and he's 20. why on EARTH did he have her on his bank account? he's not 4.
lesson learned..................
Maybe if you two had a baby it would make things better.
::snicker::
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
I'm not going to get on your guy about having his parents on his bank account. My mom was on mine as well because they agreed to pay for my living expenses in college, and so she was on there to put money in my account. I was fully aware that if she ever so decided, she could drain the entire account. And I would be truly upset if my parents took money that I placed in the account from my grandparents. That is wrong.
But I can see her point. It does not seem like the two of you are making wise choices. He changes his major from something with job potential (biology) to majors which, frankly, lowers his job potential (music education? Do you know how many schools are cutting funding for this?). He is rushing to get married before he graduates. Don't want to get married senior year? WAIT TILL AFTER SENIOR YEAR! Graduate. Get a real (as in, not part time) job. Then you guys can have more time to save for the wedding and also plan it. Plus I think it will go a long way towards relieving the fears of both of your parents.
Also, think long and hard if you want to join his family. I know you said you don't interact with them, but if you marry him, they are going to be your family too. You will have to interact with them for the rest of your lives.
I think it is great that you got a scholarship and you are working to earn your own spending money. You do seem mature for your age, but you are still young yet. Believe me when I say that your life changes so much once you graduate and go out into the real world. I would strongly urge you to wait to get married until you are fully on your own, out of school. Stay together and enjoy each other, yes, but wait to get married.
Look, you can't have it both ways. If you want to be adults and get married while still in college, you need to financially support yourselves.
When I was 20 and moved in with my boyfriend, my mom let me know that my college fund was not going to pay for my living expenses with the boyfriend. Was it manipulative? Yes. Was I pissed off? Of course. But she was right: if you want to play house, you have to pay for it yourself.
His parents are telling him loud and clear that they don't want him to get married in college while they're supporting him. They're allowed to do that. Now he gets to decide if he wants to postpone the wedding or support himself. It sucks, I get it, but if you truly are adults who are ready for marriage, you should be able to support yourselves.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
This.
Also, I didn't see this mentioned but if it was a trust account set up by his parents to fund his education, his mother does have the right to take the money and put it elsewhere. There is a possibility that she is trying to protect the money from you if you two are to be married. If his name is not on the account when you get married then in the case of a divorce, you would not be entitled to half the money that his parents had saved for his use.
Considering your ages, I would hedge my bets that that is the reason she has moved the money and changed his access to it not that she is trying to take it away from him completely but that she is protecting his future interests in this money so that he does not have to split it with you in case things don't work out as planned.
Bottom line is you both should act as if this money never existed. If you are planning on being married, you should be financially independent. Pay for everything yourselves and if one day, his mother feels like giving anything to you then count yourselves lucky.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
Your 50 year old parents agree with you because they're stupid, too.
His parents probably took the money out of the account to put into a separate fund for his eventual divorce. You know this, right?
Your FI shouldn't have put the money that was gifted to him in the account he shared with his mother for school expenses. He should have put it in his own personal savings. I say lesson learned, move on.
Ditto all of this. I'd be throwing a shiitfit too, if my 20 year-old told me (s)he was getting married. "Mature for his/her age" or not. I wouldn't be disowning them, but I'd be damn sure to do everything in my power to convince them otherwise.
You very well might be financially and emotionally ready to marry this guy. I don't know. But whether you are or you aren't, I think you're doing yourselves a HUGE disservice to be planning a marriage at such a young age. His parents wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't voicing their objections to your plans. I'm surprised your own parents aren't doing the same.
Honestly, if my son gets engaged, lives with a girl and plans a wedding while still in college, I will not be supporting them financially. You make adult decisions you do the adult thing and pay your own way. You both have jobs and savings, but you are relying on them for some of your living expenses.
It was wrong for his mother to take the money his grandmother gave him, I'll give you that, but the rest of the money was for his mother to do with whatever she wants.
My dad was on my bank account until I was 21/22. He stopped putting money in it when I turned 18 and he never took money out. I took him off my account when I was done with college.
If it's possible your FI should get his mom off his account. If it's not really your FI's account he should get his own account. I'm sorry he lost the money from his grandparents. That sucks.
I agree with pp who said you should wait until after college to marry. My parents financially supported me during college but I knew that if I got married before I graduated the money would stop coming my way. I got engaged 6 weeks after I graduated and married 8.5 months after that. I was 23 years old when I got married.
For me, at that immature age, I had this idea of what marriage was in my head, and I nkow if I had gotten married- it would have changed my outlook on our relationship in a way that I don't think would have been good. But because we, instead, dated, then lived together, but didn't add in marriage- we just lived our 20's and had a blast doing it. No additional "but we're MARRIED" stress added to it.
By the time we did get married, I had a MUCH MORE realistic view of what marriage should be. And a hint- it really shouldn't affect your relationship all that much. Marriage is more than "just a piece of paper", but it shouldn't be a personality and outlook on life changing event either.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
What an ironically inappropriate comment and picture combination.
Suddenly my life doesn't seem such a waste,
It all revolves around you.
This. Read this over and over and over again, until you have it memorized.
When I made the adult decision to move in with my boyfriend at the age of 19, my parents did the same thing - if I wanted to play house, then I'd have to get a job that afforded me the ability to do so. And I did. So did my boyfriend. We were married almost 7 years later - AFTER I was finished with college, and AFTER we BOTH had 1+ years in at professional jobs in our respective fields. We BOTH had a savings account with money that we EARNED, not just stuff that was gifted to us. We had several years of living together and paying actual bills with money from our actual jobs.
Congrats on your scholarship, you must be decently book-smart. But bragging that you're able to save a whopping $75/month is laughable and makes you look stupid. Have you any idea at all what rent is like in your area? Have you any idea what a typical utility bill costs? Car insurance? Health insurance? Are you buying groceries with your income, or are you using your scholarship money for that? As a sophomore in college, have you even scoped out the classifieds in your area to see what the job market is like? What do entry level positions in your field(s) earn? How many jobs are available?
Stop putting so much time and energy into planning for your Pretty Princess Day, and start worrying about planning for your future. Don't worry about planning a wedding during your senior year of school.........worry about getting internships and work experience during your senior year so that you can get a job that pays you well enough to plan a nice wedding later. If your relationship can't survive being what it is now, then it's doomed anyway and you have absolutely no business getting married.
And yes - if my horny 20 year old son proposed to his 20 year old girlfiend with a ring that she bought for herself, you bet your asss I'd be moving his college fund to an account that he couldn't withdraw from. Because this situation has disaster written all over it. A guy I used to babysit actually just lived this - was going to school on scholarship, had an apprenticeship and everything......he dropped out of school to spend more time with his girlfriend.......they broke up a few months ago, and now he's having to basically start all over again with school. No scholarships. No apprecticeship. He's screwed and he knows it, and is having a really hard time.
Seriously. I'd tell you to give the ring back, but since you bought it yourself there's no one to give it back to. But stop trying to prove to the world how grown up and mature you are and how in LOOOOOOVEEE you are, and just enjoy being 20 and going to college on scholarship.
And also - a double major in Music Education and Psychology means that your boyfriend will be working at the mall folding shirts for the foreseeable future. Good thing he won't have student loans to pay back, because he'll be making minimum wage. What are your majors?
And thinking that your granpdarents' ages at marriage is relevant at all futher points to how immature and far from reality you are. Even thinking that your parents' age at marriage is somehow indicitave of anything is naive. Things have changed a bit in the last 30-60 years........you're welcome.
I'm sorry your FI's guidance counselor didn't tell him that he doesn't need degrees in music education and psychology to flip burgers at McDonalds.
"I should be able to save at least $75 a month if I budget correctly."
Wow. I..just...wow.
Sweetie, I know of exactly one bill I have that's less than $75 a month. In my world (and just about every other lady's on here) $75 in savings a month wouldn't put gas in my car for a week. It wouldn't feed my household for a week, it wouldn't keep the lights on or the water running. This says volumes.
There are two sides to every coin. The choice of a college major regardless of where the finances are from, is the choice of the prospective student. Trying to force your decision on them results in instances like this thread is alluding too. Running off to get married out of spite, and severing family ties for eternity are typical rash decisions that have lasting consequences. I have often found that money follows doing what you love, and rarely the other way around. Sheltering your kids or making decisions for them does NOT help them. What ever happened to trial and error, or learning by doing? If he doesn't like music he can always choose another major. And whats a year or two while he decides what he wants out of life. (Really nothing considering biologists are hard at work taking on years to our life expectancy, ha!). If parents keep making decisions for their kids all where going to have in this country, is a bunch of kid-grown ups. Lastly, hunny please think of any little ones you may have in the future. I know when I was a kid you couldn't keep me from seeing my grandpa, even if he was vile he's still my grandpa. Put emotions aside, and try and talk it out, you know like adults.
Again, why am I being attacked? Please, disagree with me if that is what you want to do. But there is no need to call my FI, myself or especially my parents stupid.
To answer a few questions that weren't horrible. The account was not a trust fund, it was a money market savings account. He may or may not have an actual trust fund, either way, that aspect doesn't matter. I understand, as does my FI - since it is his money - that his parents as trustees (if he does have a trust account) can do whatever they want with that money, just like they can do whatever they want with the rest of their money. But I understand that if it was a trust fund (and if she DID move it into a trust fund) that things cease to be an issue.
I am sorry many of you think his major choices are stupid (and I know you would mine as well). However, his advisor in college is a music psychologist. My sister went to school and got a certificate in the medical field and now works at TD Ameritrade. Go figure. The ironic thing is many of you have said to consider the career choices and you mention that a degree doesn't equal a job. I understand that, his parents do not. They think that a college degree equals a job.
I wish I knew why this post has suddenly become about our ability or lack thereof to get married. I did not ask for advice on my soon to be marriage, and merely put it out there because it could be a factor for his mother taking away the money. But honestly, why wait until now? Why didn't she do it when he first told her he was thinking of getting engaged?
Oh, and the other thing. I am sorry for the confusion. I understand bills. I am a crazy budgeter, and when I am avoiding homework I run numbers in excel to see what I can and can't do, and to see how much money I could theoretically have in 3 years. Before I even moved into an apartment, I already knew and estimated the cost of just about every single thing I would have to pay - rent, utilities, cable, internet, groceries, gas - as well as all of the start up costs and spent hours debating over whether I should buy pot A for $X, or pot B for $XX and the pros and cons of both. I have also severely overestimated for gas as well as any other expenses, so if anything I will have a surplus of money. The $75 is a BILL I pay to myself every month and don't even touch. It gets deducted automatically from my account into my savings. EDIT: Also, $75 would feed my FI and for a week or two. My sister (3 children and a husband) only spends about $200 on groceries for all of them in one month.
I know I cannot convince anyone here of my own view points and the facts that my friends and family know. Just please stop turning this into an attack on my FI and for getting married. If you believe that is a cause, that is all you have to say. There is no need to make jokes (having a baby), calling my parents stupid (Your 50 year old parents agree with you because they're stupid, too), being sarcastic (I'm sorry your FI's guidance counselor didn't tell him that he doesn't need degrees in music education and psychology to flip burgers at McDonalds), and if there are any other seriously rude comments. EDIT: I would also like to point out how those comments are why some college grads these days refuse to take a demeaning job to pay the bills. I worked in fast food for 4 years before landing my wonderful (albeit, part-time) position that, while I may not have internships, is an actual job with work experience.
I understand strangers on the internet believe we should wait and have their own convincing anecdotes for why we should as well. My FI and I are committed to our education. We would never drop out college. That isn't even an option, even if we wanted to. To the poster that said marriage shouldn't really change anything. You are right. It won't and we are both well aware of that.
Thank you for the opinions, but I am sorry many people felt the need to be rude and tell us what we can and can't do. As adults we will take everything as opinion and decide what is best for us and suffer any consequences that may or may not follow. Because what worked for one couple may not work for the next one.