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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Your Daily "WTF, USA"
It's holier than thou when you make comments about people choosing to live in the US and being patriotic. Then it comes across as holier than thou. These posts have gone on longer than tax season.
I'll always have a sense of patriotism for the US. I don't agree with the current government one bit. I think the best thing for the country would be to have the whole government wiped away and start fresh.
To me, rita's posts about the US always come off as bashing or making fun of people for having any sort of patriotism.
I am quite surprised to see that I am "holier than thou" for those 2 comments, or according to Emily 523 how I've always been.
I'm particularly interested in why "choose to live in the US" is offensive/holier than thou? Should I instead have said "those poor suckers who are forced to suffer the indignity of living in the US because they are stupid and obviously have no other options in this magnificent world that they get stuck living in the hellhole that is the US?" Of course not, because that's not how I feel (and that's BSC)! People choose to live in the US.....that's just, uhh, facts. It's not some grand moral statement that they're making or judgement that I'm passing.
GilliC's bolded part is exactly what I was going to respond. So....the Tea Party movement is holier than thou? Occupy Wall Street? They are critical of their government (albeit they're not expats, so maybe they're allowed?)
I apologize for assuming that your initial comment towards me came from a place of patriotism, but really that was my first assumption. I'm still interested in where it came from in the first place, since the patriotism/choice comment came after.
I'm not going to take Pollyanna attitude towards the US, just so I be respectful and be seen and not heard. If that makes me "holier than thou" to some (which I've always been, anyways, apparently), fine.
I didn't see Wise Rita as attacking ANYONE who lives in the US. She seems to be attacking the governmental laws here. I think more was read into her initial comments than were actually written. I personally hate a lot of the stuff I'm hearing coming out of the US. Are there great things too? Of course! But a lot of the news is about bad stuff - it sells - so that's what we expats get to see...and I like the fact that we can discuss this stuff with other expats.
I don't see holier than thou here, I don't see putting down expats who moved back...and I don't know why people are reading into her comments this way. I do think she states things in a bold manner, but heh, so do a lot of people on this board.
Perhaps we all need to step back and remember that we all come from different backgrounds. One of the reasons I stepped back from the board for a long time was because people weren't allowed to say anything that might annoy another person and people started attacking each other. I'd hate for that to happen again. It's also the reason why now, I tend to not post on these sorts of threads and just stick to the welcome threads - cause why put yourself out there as YOU may come across as a ***. I probably won't post again on one of these and probably will back away from the board again, because it seems like you can't post about stuff on here without someone taking offense.
I don't want to throw fuel on the fire here, but I want to say that I feel like wise_rita is being unnecessarily attacked (I hope I'm allowed to say that even though I haven't been active on this board that long). I've lived abroad for 12 years now, and it has only been through living overseas that a lot of the things that are "wrong" with America have become clear to me. This is mainly because I now have a comparison.
I have never been patriotic (I always thought it was strange to pledge allegance to a flag in school) and I've never been one to boast that I'm a proud American. That being said, it is my home, it's where I'm from, no matter how long I've been away. And, honestly, I wish I could move back to Kansas sometimes. But there are, in my opinion, truly so many things wrong with America (starting with healthcare expenses, state of public schools, laws concerning concealed weapons, etc.), that it just isn't an option. This isn't to say that I think all of my friends who live there are a bunch of goons who couldn't figure out how to open the emergency exit. But it is to say that I sincerely wish my American friends could enjoy the same standard of living that I do here in Germany.
I don't understand why some of you are taking other peoples' opinions so personally. One person's opinions and choices don't diminish your own.
I?ve had a lot of WTF, USA moments lately. I also have them regularly about Germany, but heh, that?s life. What upsets (and that?s not really the right word) me the most is that I want my home country to be great, and I want ot have warm fuzzy feelings when I think about it, but it?s the little things that disappoint me, make me feel like the US is taking some steps backward, and that?s not a good direction. So yes, I have WTF moments because I care.
Yes, exactly.
Nooooooo! If somebody takes offence to what I say that's their problem, not mine. There is no need for anybody to step down, and I'm the one being "persecuted" here. Don't do it, yankee, don't you dare do it!
D-i-t-t-o. I am horrified every single day by news coming out of the US because I also feel it's taking a lot of steps backwards (see: contraception debate, healthcare debate). Does anybody think that's fun for me to watch? I've got friends and family in the US who I'd prefer to see prosper, not suffer. Seeing the sh!tshow unfold comes from a place of concern for the people I care about, not some "ZOMG I'm better than u r" mentality.
No don't go UKyankee. You have to stay.
1.) I dont think there is a lot of drama on this board especially if you lurk on other boards.
2.) I think Wise_Rita likes to talk about current events and since she seems to be quite liberal she is going to post stories that she finds interesting. I dont understand why we cant talk about politics or current events without people getting angry.
My two cents.
Same here.
Anyway, the way I see it is that we're all only responsible for what we say, not how other people take it.
Totally agree, especially with the bolded. That's what used to make this board great: we could talk about rather controversial subjects, debate them, and eventually agree to disagree if necessary. I don't know why people take offense more lately but they do (and I mean in general). This is how the board dies every so often: people get offended, possibly controversial topics aren't posted anymore and we're left with newbie intros (no complaints!) and baby talk.
Also agree with this. It's all very well for everyone to get along but we shouldn't have to step on eggshells (about general topics, obviously no personal attacks!) all the time in case someone gets offended. People have different opinions and that's that.
So in like 3 posts where I have voiced MY opinion I am suddenly offended often? Haha, ok then. First of all I never said I was offended, not once. I said I found the posts annoying. Second, the other posts you are referring to, which were the food post and the flying post, hit close to home (and some of the comments on the food came across as judgemental and through conversation it was worked out, see how it works?)
I think it's funny that butterbrot or whatever her name is agrees, since I have never seen her post til like the last few weeks. If someone wants to stop posting because I don't agree with a post that is crazy, clearly varying opinions don't keep me from posting even though some of you may wish it did.
I didn't mean I'd leave the board but stop posting on these more controveral topics. I think I'll stick to my hellos and whatnot fun posts...and will still post hot or not. I just get too riled up, which I've said before, and I need calm in my life right now.
p.s. I'm glad that we have fribc around - she has a lot of cool things to add even if we disagree sometimes.
I can understand this. I find all the posts complaining about public healthcare to be annoying, so I tend to stay away from them.
I do think it's a little impolite to complain about the recurring topic being annoying, when you could just as easily skip the threads that are likely to annoy you (and one titled "Daily WTF USA" seems like a pretty strong warning, kind of like a TMI or Spoilers label).
Especially on such a quiet board, I think that any discussion should be encouraged rather than discouraged, and it would be better if as individuals we simply steered clear of the subjects that irritate us rather than making them verboten. Sure, wise_rita's post could have been titled something like "WTF citizenship law" but does it really matter?
I'm actually very disappointed that this thread has turned into a discussion of pro- vs anti-American sentiment, because I think the law in question is interesting and would have liked to discuss it more, whether it was a US law or some other country's.
I apologize for adding this here, I realize it's not on topic. I wanted to add a line about this on that food post but forgot so I'm taking a second to do so here.
ExpatPumpkin's comment wasn't judgemental. She was very specific and said that she'd feel like a failure if she fed her kids ONLY junk food. Which simply means that if she had children she would NOT feed them ONLY junk food. Hardly a bad thing. I thought than snapping and telling her "way to judge" was harsher than necessary. Unless you ONLY feed your children junk (which of course you don't!) you had no reason to get defensive about it. She was so graceful as to apologize even if she had said nothing to apologize for. I thought.
Again, sorry, I should have replied to the original thread. I'll get out of the way now.
To mention something on topic, other italian expats I know and I also discuss current politics and events without it meaning that we look down on whoever is still living there. If it can be of any moderation here, it happens among expats of all countries. No country is perfect and as expats we acquire a certain clarity of view. I think it's healthy to discuss without fear of coming across as anti-one'sowncountry.
I agree it's too bad this turned into two pages of drama. It could easily had been that frlcb said she felt the tone was a little over the top and that that happens a lot around here lately and wise Rita could have said "sorry, not what I was aiming for" and that is that but instead it turned into this. I think frlcb has a valid point, I often feel like that around here lately. I don't think anyone wants to say it bc this usually happens, though. So it sort of goes both ways. And I don't think anyone should have to keep any onions to themselves, so wise Rita can post things I think are rude or holier than thou or anyone can do that but I think I should still have the right to say "hey, this rubs me th wrong way". Yes, we're a quiet board but it doesn't mean we can't disagree. We always have been able to do it respectfully before and I don't thinkt his thread started out disrespectful but it did end up that way. And part of that was the pile on with people saying "I am not going to post anymore bc it's not fair for people to voice different opinions just stay out if you don't like it".....
Eh, I agree, but I have just as much right to express my annoyance over these posts as you all do to post them. It would be impolite if I went on every post like this and said it was annoying but I said it once, which turned into something much bigger. As I said all along it was the tone not the content that was what I found annoying.
Gilli you have been around here a long time, you should know that a post like this is nothing new. Everyone moves on.
I am not the only one who found it judgmental. She then came back and said that isn't how she meant it, and it was fine. I am not sure why this had to be brought up in here.
This is exactly why I didn't say anything. But surely I'm allowed to agree with something, right? I agreed because I noticed in the children and food thread that you got really defensive, and even though the person who got you riled up (sorry, I cannot for the life of me remember nicknames on discussion boards) apologized and made it clear that she wasn't out to attack anyone. I think it's completely legit to say something when you are of a different opinion, but even when she apologized you just kept harping on and on and on; this is something that stands out, even to Whatever Her Name Is who has only been posting here for the last few weeks. I know this is off the topic here at hand, but I wanted to let you know why I agreed. It was just an observation.
But whatever. I am a harmony freak, and I certainly don't want to step on anyone's toes, not even online.
I said whatever her name is because I didn't want to spell it wrong, I was on my phone. And we were discussing it, and working it out. She admitted that she was not aware of certain things that I was posting, and I don't think she was 'offended' that I was posting them. And, as I said in that post (and don't know why I am bringing it up again) that was a very personal thing to me because it is something we have been dealing with for 4 years, and I do get judged for how my son eats.
You and I move on, but there are a lot of people over the years who have left, because they didn't feel comfortable posting here anymore. I just don't want to see another bunch leave.
I've been here for a few years and all I'm coming up with is Snippy who left on her own accord (because "we didn't stand up for her" against a crazy person, w-evs). Who else has jumped ship?
ETA: I'm talking regs here, not the pokepoke's of the board.
So back to the law- I actually watched a documentary about surrogacy in India the other week, and the clinic director was talking about how a German couple had a really difficult time getting passports for their twins because Germany doesn't recognize surrogacy, even though the sperm and egg came from mom and dad. Mom just couldn't carry the pregnancy because of some unspecified medical condition. To me, that goes even a step further than the US law. (I believe there's no egg donation in Germany, either. Women may only give birth to children that have their own eggs, although donor sperm is ok.)
I believe France had a similar story about a french couple who had a twins via surrogate mother in California and the French court refused to register them in their system. I guess it is a fairly common issue right now in the world.
It just seems so sexist to me. Why is it ok for the option of sperm donation to be open to couples with male fertility problems but egg donation or surrogacy isn't ok in cases of female fertility problems? I think Germany says some crap about the woman carrying the baby becoming attached to it and not wanting to give it up and they want to avoid those kinds of problems, blah, blah. And even that reasoning doesn't explain the ban on egg donation. But seriously? It's essentially discrimination against couples in which the woman has fertility problems as opposed to those in which there's MFI.
I just think the whole thing is absolutely nuts and is opening the US Immigration system up to a world of pain if this is upheld.
About the whole America Bashing thing, though, I agree that the majority of the board is made up of Americans and as expats we tend to be drawn to news stories from "home". At the same time, American news tends to go global quite quickly, much more so than say, Canadian or Australian news. I could go on and on about the ridiculous Wild Rose party but so few of you would either know or be remotely interested in what the hell I'm talking about that there's no point, and it's just a more common ground to talk about topics that are going on in the States, because it's something that we can all easily relate to, I guess.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk