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I think I'm opening a can of worms. SB1070...
So I may be opening a huge can of worms with this topic, but I wanted to hear different opinions on this Arizona issue that has made its way to the Supreme Court. As a native Arizonan, I feel that our state needed to do something. This state was being overrun with illegal immigrants. I say that with caution. I don't have an issue with immigration, but I feel everyone should come to the US legally. Illegal immigrants use our hospitals, schools, and government facilities and most do not contribute to the maintenance of these places, meaning they don't pay taxes. We need the tax money for the benefit of public programs. Another reason why our school system is in shambles. These illegal immigrants also bring violence and drugs to our neighborhoods.
The fact that the Federal government was not fulfilling the request of more support out here to enforce immigration left Arizona with little options. I guess I support the bill to an extent.
What is your opinion on this heated issue?
Re: I think I'm opening a can of worms. SB1070...
haha I know. I'm watching the news, and it's on my mind.
I am also a native Arizona and I never ever felt the state was being overrun with illegal immigrants.
Also, illegal immigrants pay taxes. They pay property taxes through their rent (or if they own they pay them then) so they do pay for the upkeep of schools and the like. They pay sales tax when they purchase items (so again they pay for those things). If they have a fake social security number they pay income tax. So they do pay taxes.
AZ's school system is in shambles because the AZ legislature and gov could give an F about the school system. They chose instead to gut the school budget while wasting their time making sure they can carry guns into sports complexes.
And the idea that crime and drugs are reserved just for illegal immigrants is ridiculous. I feel like I can't even address it..but yes there is some crime and drugs that are connected to illegal immigrants but there is a hell of a lot of it without them. Phoenix has had an extremely high murder rate for as long as I can remember LONG before illegal immigrants were in the political eye.
FINALLY, I just heard a report the other day that said that Mexican illegal immigration is now at a net zero meaning just as many people are returning to Mexico as are coming. Whomever did the study (I do not remember) states that in the next few years it is expected to be in the negatives. So there you go. Problem solved.
My state is being overrun by old people. We need a law to take care of that situation.
That is all I have to add. Carry on. I need some entertainment tonight.
You should get IIOY on the case.
I do think there is a good question wrapped up in here.
What should Arizona/New Mexico/Texas do about their border problems? I'm not really even talking about illegal immigration. I'm far, far more concerned with the threat of the gun and drug cartel issues making the short jump across the border.
We briefly discussed this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/14/arizona-bill-to-institute_n_1345662.html
The first few posts were totally against, a few of us made the argument that the training/background checks/etc would probably be much like volunteer fire departments, etc., and then the post just died.
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I am in Texas so I understand some of the concern with those who enter the US illegally but I question whehter they have truly "overrun" Arizona or Texas, for that matter. Yes, they use some of the services that you listed but so do poor, legal residents/citizens and in the case of some Texas hospitals, legal uninsured/underinsured residents use the facility more than those here illegally.
As for public schools, our legislature and SBOE are more to blame for the sh!tastic state of our education than those who are here illegally.
Agreed, but I think our own government has been as much part of this problem as drug cartels. (Fast and Furious and similar program under W, for example)
But now that this problem exists, how do we fix it? How do we protect our citizens on the border? This really hits home for me, as I have a lot of friends from the Valley (TX), and family in San Antonio (which aren't far enough from the border for me to feel OK). I want solutions, not blame. Blame doesn't solve the problem, that's just business as usual.
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Are you talking about me or the OP?
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not you. this is a general statement brought on by the OP's statement.
We have an all time low in illegal immigration rates because many are leaving due to a poor economy. To make a projection in terms of future net negatives, one would have to assume the economy will continue to be poor. I'm not saying that won't be the case, but if you're an Obama supporter, this is not the arguement you want to throw-out there. "Yipee! We solved the illegal immigration problem without doing anything because the economy will be in the shitter for the next decade!" The fact is, once the economy improves steadily, immigration rates will increase. However federal tax revenue from illegal immigrants voluntarily filing also increases with a good economy.
I agree that the cartels and drug/gun problems are a huge concern. That is addressed in a much different way than simply putting up a fence or asking people for their papers, KWIM? I think many people who like laws like SB1070 think that it will solve the gun and drug problems, but I do not see that happening.
As someone who also lives in a border state, I could never, and would never, support a law like SB1070. We need to focus on reform of drug laws and working with the Mexican government to combat cartels to make a difference in the crime that is current wreaking havoc in some areas of the US.
Most "regular" illegal immigrants do not cause many issues at all. As another poster pointed out, illegal immigration is decreasing rather rapidly as a result of our struggling economy as well as an increase in border security. Which happened under the Obama administration, which makes it obvious that the federal government has not done nothing. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=151224298
It is not just the weak economy though (although, to be sure, that plays a large role). From the NPR article: Much of the drop in illegal immigrants is due to the persistently weak U.S. economy, which has shrunk construction and service-sector jobs attractive to Mexican workers following the housing bust. But increased deportations, heightened U.S. patrols and violence along the border also have played a role, as well as demographic changes, such as Mexico's declining birth rate.
I agree--I want to talk about what WILL help.
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The gun issue at the border is generally the other direction - the overwhelming majority of guns in Mexico come from the US.
As for the drug issue, that's certainly a legitimate concern. NAFTA was probably the best possible thing the drug cartels could have asked for.
I don't really think the drug problem in those states can be fought much differently than the drug problem in other states. Interdiction squads along major highways or other known trafficking routes, increased undercover activity, things like that. But the honest truth is that the drug war is unwinnable. It's a bigger and more profitable business than the oil companies. I don't see how you can possibly stop that. Is the answer legalizing drugs, or some drugs? Maybe. I don't know. I really don't know what the answer is. I'm not sure anyone does.
But I am pretty sure it isn't allowing the police to stop any brown person and demand proof of citizenship.
Wouldn't this be less of an issue if we stopped focusing on turning undocumented families into criminals? Many are terrified to ever go to a doctor.
i'm going to go ahead and expound on my above statement, lest i be accused of dropping a sisu-bomb.
this bill and the craziness that's followed reminds me of the extreme statements made by many people on both sides (although admittedly i can only think of those from the right, but i am more than willing to own the fact that we have our own brand of crazyazzz commentary on our side. but, i'm tired after a funeral day and none come to mind. feel free to toss them out there for me, though.)
in NJ the BIGGESTFREAKINGPROBLEMEVEREVEREVER was the unions. THEY ARE RUINING OUR STATE! THEY NEED TO BE PUT DOWN! SHOW THEM WHO'S BOSS!!!! until.... they weren't. they were bullied into an $800 million cut which was necessary FOR THE SURVIVAL OF NEW JERSEY OR WE'RE GOING TO GO UNDER!!!!!1!111!! only to see that money reinstated the next year. so, it was only the biggest problem until it wasn't a problem anymore. CC proved his point and he moved onto his next problem. and with his lack of attention, the whole issue died. the unions are still there, their contracts are still there, their pensions are still there, their health plans are still there, but somehow they're just not a problem anymore. why? because CC doesn't care anymore.
i had more but i'm too tired. sorry to bail on this like that.
i think that's a fair issue. but is the solution denying people medical care? (not a question directed at you for an answer. it's more rhetorical, i guess)
You're right, like the time Debbie Wasserman Schultz told me the GOP was coming for all my free birth control and I got all scared.
It really is. I feel like we are the only people in FL under the age of 30 most times we're there
The nice thing is that by 7pm, we have restaurants and movie theatres all to ourselves!
or the time Ted Nugent told everyone that Obama was coming for your guns and people started hoarding weapons. or Cardinal Dolan said Obama was restricting his religious freedoms and people debated freedom of religion and said their constitutional rights were being taken away by contraception coverage.
yeah, like that.
I don't think the bill does anything to curb illegal immigration.
I also think it delves into a murky area of states trying to enforce/create laws in areas that are supposed to be left up to the feds... but that's really just secondary.
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