I think I'm opening a can of worms. SB1070...

Re: I think I'm opening a can of worms. SB1070...

• mrsbecky07 member

  

  April 2012

  I was just coming in to say that I remember the articles Pixy was referencing about how Americans aren't doing the work, at least not with any regularity, as backup ha, but she has already posted the links. 

   

  and Reeve I also died at NQB's comment.

  

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• pixy_stix member

  

  April 2012

  mrsbecky07:

  I was just coming in to say that I remember the articles Pixy was referencing about how Americans aren't doing the work, at least not with any regularity, as backup ha, but she has already posted the links. 

   

  Thanks for having my back. :oD It was driving me crazy that I couldn't find them.

  More:

  Impacts on Alabama's construction industry - It's not the wage being paid, its the lack of skilled workers to take the jobs of the immigrants (both legal and illegal [which is interesting]) who are leaving.
  

  A big old middle finger to you, stupid Nest.

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• 3.27.04_Helper

  April 2012

  pixy_stix:

  mrsbecky07:

  I was just coming in to say that I remember the articles Pixy was referencing about how Americans aren't doing the work, at least not with any regularity, as backup ha, but she has already posted the links. 

   

  Thanks for having my back. :oD It was driving me crazy that I couldn't find them.

  More:

  Impacts on Alabama's construction industry - It's not the wage being paid, its the lack of skilled workers to take the jobs of the immigrants (both legal and illegal [which is interesting]) who are leaving.
  

  my boss who knows the ag commissioner says it is a huge problem and to what end... what does AL gain by kicking out all the hispanics?

  

  Above Us Only Sky

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• marie427 member

  

  April 2012

  Thanks pixy. I knew I had read those articles (or similar ones) so I believed you when you said they existed before you posted them.

  In this country we can't go from telling kids they have to go to college and get cushy jobs to telling them they should pick tomatoes of the vines. We just can't, even if the wages are good. That is why farms have lots of trouble hiring or retain non-immigrants - it is so ingrained in our heads that these jobs are "beneath" us. 

  

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• msmerymac member

  

  April 2012

  mxolisi:

  marie427:

  It's been talked about before ad nauseum, but SB 1070 pretty much makes any brown person in Arizona feel like they need to carry proof that they are U.S. citizens or otherwise have a right to be here. .

  If you read the travel warning/info pages of the British FCO and other equivalents (ie the way foreign governments provide travel advice to their citizens like our State Dept) you will note that they explicitly warn their nationals about the risks associated with being a non US citizen in Arizona under this law. 

  They'd have to after that German executive was detained in Alabama. Oops!

  swimbikepuke:

  (Also, I don't argree with the AZ bill.  I think it's terrible. And I think the way you combat illegal immigration is turn off the job faucet and punish companies and individuals who hire illegal immigrants.) 

  This is what the feds are arguing at SCOTUS today, right? Well, part of it, anyway. SB1070 criminalizes seeking or obtaining employment in Arizona if you are not here legally. Arizona claims that the federal government's laws don't address it. The federal government simply criminalizes hiring an undocumented worker, and the feds are saying, "Yeah, we choose not to criminalize the actions of individuals on purpose."

  my read shelf:
  
  40/112
  
  

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• dpeugh85

  April 2012

  And for the bump perspective:

  http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/65427680.aspx

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• marie427 member

  

  April 2012

  dpeugh85:

  And for the bump perspective:

  http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/65427680.aspx

  LOL! Like night and day.

  ETA: What a shame the federal government is getting involved in a federal issue! 

  

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• pixy_stix member

  

  April 2012

  swimbikepuke:

  I was thinking that farm work would probably have to be more in the realm of $15-20 an hour and include benefits.  Basically union wages. 
  

  Even then, would you have the retention of workers? From the articles people are coming out and at least trying the jobs. Once they realize what the work is, they leave. So the wage must be palatable on some level until they get to the thick of things.

  The type of wage you're proposing is unsustainable. We're seeing that in other industries with companies not being able to make a profit and shipping their production overseas.
  

   

  A big old middle finger to you, stupid Nest.

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• loislayn member

  

  April 2012

  pixy_stix:

  mysticporter:

  I'd like to see a study some time that delves more into this.  I see it thrown around a lot, and I'm not convinced it's true.  If the option were not there for business to utilize illegal workers, what would actually happen?  The threat seems to be that all of these jobs would go unfilled, but I wonder if that's actually true, or if businesses would be forced into paying higher wages to fill the need, and if that's actually economically viable for them or not. 

  There have been several studies within the last two years. The result is crops rotting in the fields, even when workers are brought here legally on visas. The American public does not want to perform manual field labor even with higher wages.

  Of course I can't find any of the articles now, but one was from Colorado and the other talked about the immediate impact in Alabama.
  

  There's a reason that rendering plants and farms are <10% white and 90% minority. They'll do the jobs that others refuse.

  
  
  

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• mxolisi member

  

  April 2012

  Thanks for the bump link. I was tiring so of this reasonable intelligent discussion. 

  I have now learned that we are all in the wrong and the federal government should not be involved in immigration at all

  Also I dearly hope that the OP returns to defend the notion that speaking languages other than English outside of one's dwelling should be outlawed and that anyone who is not a citizen of the US has "no rights." Canadian ladies, you've been warned!  

   

   

  "We tend to be patronizing about the poor in a very specific sense, which is that we tend to think,

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• mrsbecky07 member

  

  April 2012

   I don't want to press 1 for English, it should be in English that is our national language.

  ::headdesk::

  

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• mrsbecky07 member

  

  April 2012

  Oh that thread. It's making my head hurt.

   2) I would be ok with making illegals legal, but not naturalized. I don't want someone sneaking in the back door to a political office

  

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• mrsbecky07 member

  

  April 2012

  Also, apparently illegal immigrants either pick fruit or work in fast food restaurants.  One or the other.

   

  (sorry the thread just keeps getting "better".  I think we need our PCE Rapid Response badges.)

  

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• tartaruga member

  April 2012

  mrsbecky07:

   I don't want to press 1 for English, it should be in English that is our national language.

  ::headdesk::

  Interestingly enough, this very statement is not English. 
  

  

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• tartaruga member

  April 2012

  After reading that thread, now I see why the OP of this thread didn't return.

  We apparently didn't give her the "OMG yes, illegalz!!!" answers she was looking for. 
  

  

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• IAmMalcolmX

  April 2012

  ::runs over to see if ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL has been posted yet::
  

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• mysticporter

  April 2012

  swimbikepuke:

  I would say, once they realize how hard the work is, $10.00 an hour doesn't seem sufficient.  

  Also, the reason we're seeing people shift their production overseas isn't because they can't make a profit here.  It's because they can make more profit there.  And they do it by avoiding sweat-shop and child labor laws that exist here.  I don't think that reinstating sweat-shops and child labor in the United States is a solution to the flight of jobs overseas, and I don't think continuing to allow illegal immigrant employment here is the solution to keeping the cost of strawberries at $.99 a pound.  Prices would go up. So would income.  That wouldn't be a bad thing.  We'd also see less corporate farming and more small family farming and by virtue of the expense of purchasing strawberries shipped from CA in February, we'd see people eating more locally grown food, which would also be a good thing.  

  If your argument is that we can't pay union wages to American farm workers and have things remain as they are, I completely agree.  But I don't have a problem with that since I think the way things are is pretty fwcked up for a number of reasons.

  I really want to post original thoughts on this, by SBP is pretty much covering it for me, and I'm crunched at work today.

   So, a big lazy old head nod here.

  
  

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• mysticporter

  April 2012

  is_it_over_yet?:

  I didn't think you were and was directing my comment to mystic, but being on my phone makes the whole quote within a quote thing weird so your comment got stuck in there. :-)

  I didn't think you were serious about the fogeys! The comment just brought to mind some thoughts on wages and illegal immigration.
  

  
  

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• mxolisi member

  

  April 2012

  I'm barely holding back from telling the woman who applies for dozens of fast food jobs and gets none of them that she might want to work on functional proficiency in English.  At least the illegals stealing her jobs have fluency in one language. 

  "We tend to be patronizing about the poor in a very specific sense, which is that we tend to think,

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• tartaruga member

  April 2012

  mxolisi:

  I'm barely holding back from telling the woman who applies for dozens of fast food jobs and gets none of them that she might want to work on functional proficiency in English.  At least the illegals stealing her jobs have fluency in one language. 

  But but her best friend's boyfriend's uncle says he only hires illegals!
  

  

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• tartaruga member

  April 2012

  Illegals don't care about being arrested! Nepotism only happens with illegals!
  

  

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• pixy_stix member

  

  April 2012

  tartaruga:

  Illegals don't care about being arrested! Nepotism only happens with illegals!
  

  I'm just going to start automatically discounting people when they say illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. It saves a lot of headaches in trying to reason with them further.
  

  A big old middle finger to you, stupid Nest.

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• msmerymac member

  

  April 2012

  mrsbecky07:

  Also, apparently illegal immigrants either pick fruit or work in fast food restaurants.  One or the other.

   

  (sorry the thread just keeps getting "better".  I think we need our PCE Rapid Response badges.)

  She's totally wrong. In LA they either clean your house or mow your lawn.

  I like the world view of someone who says, "well if *I* immigrated somewhere, I'd do it legally!" Kind of like, "If there's a famine/no jobs/natural disaster why don't people just move?" *pats head* That bubble must protect you from so much.

  my read shelf:
  
  40/112
  
  

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• JulieFe member

  April 2012

  What is your opinion on this heated issue?

  I have not read the briefs and all the information that is available on the topic.  However, I feel that the law should be upheld.  I also strongly hope that the ACA  (health care) mandate is ruled unconstitutional.
  

  Romney-Portman 2012 ORGAN DONOR: DEAL WITH IT. :-) :-)

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• dpeugh85

  April 2012

  She does not.give.up 

  She continues to rant in case anyone is interested.

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• DruidPrincess

  April 2012

  mrsbecky07:

  Also, apparently illegal immigrants either pick fruit or work in fast food restaurants.  One or the other.

   

  (sorry the thread just keeps getting "better".  I think we need our PCE Rapid Response badges.)

  Click on my Nest name - they're in my profile pictures.  

  

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• mrsbecky07 member

  

  April 2012

  Why didn't she like Pixy's links!!  

   

  I am also dying at KateAggie. 

  

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• mxolisi member

  

  April 2012

  Also, OP if you ever come back, you should consider a username that isn't your very unique real name. Because women waiting in bars for a friend to arrive may get curious, google you and find your linked in page, husband's name, college blog etc etc and associate all of them with your bumptastic opinions. 

  "We tend to be patronizing about the poor in a very specific sense, which is that we tend to think,

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• EllieArroway member

  

  April 2012

  You don't know my lyfe!!!11!!1!1
  

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• KateAggie member

  April 2012

  November 2011 is fun.

  
  
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