Politics & Current Events
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Talk to me about FMLA
Paid time off can run concurrently, or in addition too. Really, none of that has to do with FMLA, PTO is all up to the employer. (FWIW, when Mr.P took 4 weeks PTO after A was born, two of which were a mandatory company-wide shut down, HR counted it against his FMLA. There are times when management may count time against FMLA that is not above or beyond what any other non-sick, non-caregiving employee takes.)
Again, a management issue not FMLA. If an employee is abusing the PTO policy, that has nothing to do with FMLA.
So wait? Now we are upset that an employee is using time that she earned in terms of vacation credits and sick leave to cover time off for an illness? What the living hell.
And now I'm confused again...which is why I posted in the first place.
I think ultimately this is a management issue. I'm thinking the upset employee wouldn't be so upset if management had a plan in place to help her when she is left with all of the work...often unexpectedly. I don't think that necessarily makes that person a bad person.
So? PTO is still a benefit available to all employees in the organization.
And whether it's paid or unpaid, taking time off for a serious illness sucks.
Your complaining CW is an assholio.
Therein lies the crux of the issue. FMLA has little, if anything, to do with it.
unless the whiner employee is in payroll then i doubt she actually knows what is going on. is she positive that the sick employee hasn't moved to P/T status, or is working on that arrangement with her employer?
FWIW, and i'm sorry if this person is your BFF, but if someone told me they were quitting their job because they felt like someone who had a chronic incurable illness was getting special treatment, i'd tell them exactly what special kind of sh!t they are and end the convo. that is unf-ing real.
I think that she needs to recognize it is in fact a management issue in that they have not figured out a way to manage the situation. If it is ongoing, they need to sitdown with the other employee to get a better idea of her limitations and figure out if hiring additional staff is necessary. Being upset at the sick person and questioning whether their illness is legit or not is not right.
Isn't it so much more convenient to blame all these pesky government regulations instead of shoddy company management when businesses flounder and fail?
I agree.
Um, excuse me?
40/112
All problems in life can be attributed to government. YWIA. It's never the problem of the all mighty business. HTH.
I think the focus on paid vs unpaid time was in response to the comment that unpaid time is a deterrent for abuse.
There must be at least 50 employees within a 75 mile radius.
And subcontracting is different than employment.
2V, don't mind me. Really. These days, I'm not a good person to talk to about this topic. ETA: that is to say my rage is not directed at you, promise.
I know, but I briefly skimmed one of the linked pages and it said something about co-employment, and I wondered if it would fall under that.
But thank you, that answers my question!
40/112
I'm sorry. I should have realized. I'm pretty sensitive these days too...sorry.
Everytime I get homesick, I read one of these threads and 50% of it goes away.
Couldn't your friend's boss have hired a temp? Or dealt with the workload differently. Its unpaid leave, so it's not like they don't have the money to be paying someone to do that work, right?
If the 2 employees are different types/classes/exemptions/etc., they could have different sorts of leave that makes their schedules more flexible.
Or, said employee could simply be taking a paying cut, or taking time off w/o pay, or using up all her/his sick/vacation time if they've been there a while and have a ton to use (as my coworkers have done).
So in the end there are a ton of factors to consider before someone jumps to favoritism or bad management.
Here's the other part of this nobody's talking about.
Many (not all) employees who are covered by FMLA are also covered by ADA. Under ADA, employers have an obligation to provide reasonable accommodations to employees with disabilities. Those accommodations can (among other things) be modifications to their schedule.
Therefore, an employee who fulfills their obligations under FMLA may well see that they have other obligations to their employees under ADA, in terms of providing qualified individuals with disabilities modified schedules. And, conversely, the failure to do this may lead to liability under the ADA.
Now, fulfilling obligations under the FMLA may be used as a defense to an ADA claim, but that doesn't matter, because the analysis under ADA is an individual one.
How's that for something to add a wrench to the works?
(Now, a lot of people who are covered by FMLA are NOT covered by ADA - pregnancy is one example of that.)
I am the 99%.
Thank you, mominatrix. I was just about to mention ADA standards and how that can mingle with FMLA.
Also, PTO and FMLA can be really difficult to handle in terms of tracking hours and what goes where. It's not fluid - there can be 3 hours of PTO one day and 5 of FMLA. Add the ADA stuff, and it's a crapshoot unless you have a really good HR team/manager.
Sorry. You're getting straight-up bitchiness on this thread because of who you are. No doubt about it. It's annoying, but you'll have that.
I don't understand the incredulity about a co-worker not having to do a bunch of extra work for someone who wouldn't show up. I get the regulations and the law and all that, but it shouldn't be an excuse to treat someone else unfairly. I have to admit that at a certain point (as the co-worker) I would focus on myself, not so and so with the health condition.
I look at it from the p.o.v. of teaching. I know it's not FMLA, but I feel like it'd be the same sort of thing if a colleague wanted 45 minute breastfeeding breaks and I had to take every break of mine to cover for them. Yeah, I'd be pissed, but I wouldn't want to be construed as anti-motherhood. :-)
Goodnight, 2v. Hope all is well.
I believe missusbee is being sincere...and Im cool with her. I do find the assumptions in this thread interesting however. Most people assume that the "whiner" is a b!tch and that the sick person is completely innocent and not abusing the system. I actually don't know the whole story as neither of these two people are my friends, but I'm willing to keep an open mind that just because someone is sick (and I do feel badly for those who have various medical issues) that doesn't mean that that person isn't abusing his/her situation.
Unfortunately I just think it is one of those things that the co-worker is not likely to be privy to another's health situation. If abuse is happening, I still think management is the one to call it out because presumably they know more about the situation since they had to approve the leave. They are the ones that can request doctor's notes to verify the need for leave. Abuse or not, management should recognize that they need to step up to find help for the other worker so she is not doing the work of two individuals. It is part of their responsibility as a manager to adequately figure out staffing needs. I don't think a person has a responsibility to share their medical details with a peer to justify leave. It doesn't mean there is not abuse but the presumption that it is abuse without fully understanding someone's medical situation is placing blame on the wrong thing.
As for Julie's example about a nursing mom, it would still be mismanagement. Why would you ask one co-worker in a building full of peers to give up every single break to cover another person? The rest of the comment is fairly ridiculous so I don't really have a response.
Right. See the whole part where I assured 2V I wasn't directing any crank in her direction.
Julie. What's your deal?
What you've read is not right.
FMLA mandates 12 weeks unpaid leave for certain employers/employees. Employers can CHOOSE whether they want to (1) require employees to take that leave unpaid; (2) require employees to use up any PTO concurrently with their FMLA; and/or (3) permit employees to use PTO to extend their time off beyond the required 12 weeks.
There is NOTHING in the law that requires employers to allow people to use PTO to extend their leave time. In addition, you don't automatically get 12 weeks for every single type of health condition. Pregnancy gets you 12 weeks. But everything else, like surgery or care for a sick family member, is contingent on the type of condition you have. Someone that has surgery and is in the hospital for 1 week, and has a 3 week recovery period per doctors orders is only eligible to take 4 weeks of FMLA time. The employer may CHOOSE to give them additional time off or allow them to use their paid leave during or after that time, but the law does NOT REQUIRE the employers to do that.
From reading this thread, it sounds like your problem with the FMLA is not actually with the FMLA at all. I mean, if you think that an employee should not be fired simply for taking a reasonable amount of unpaid leave to recover from pregnancy or surgery, or to tend to a dying parent, or to accompany their child to chemotherapy, then I don't see how you can think the FMLA is bad. All the complaints I've seen from you in this thread are about the optional things employers do to expand benefits beyond what is required by law.
You are certainly entitled to hate the FMLA if you want, but if you are going to criticize it, criticize what it actually requires, instead of disapproving of some employer's actions that go above and beyond what is required by law.
The biggest problem with the FMLA is that most people have little to no understanding of how it works. That's not your fault, as there is so much misinformation out there (and in this thread). But please do not believe everything you hear about it. The odds are that it's probably false, and as the vast majority of people use the term "FMLA" interchangeably with their own company's internal policies for and handling of extended leave, and believe that their own company's approach is the law. But those internal policies are not the law, and often have little basis in law.
And after reading the entire thread, there are still people who think I "hate" FMLA, am "criticizing" it, have a "problem" with it, etc.
Yeah, after learning more about it, I think I was pretty darn clear that I thought the issue was management policy.