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Marine discharged for anti-Obama FB posts
By ELLIOT SPAGAT, Associated Press
SAN DIEGO (AP) ? A sergeant will be discharged for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook in a case that called into question the Pentagon's policies about social media and its limits on the speech of active duty military personnel, the Marine Corps said Wednesday.
Sgt. Gary Stein will get an other-than-honorable discharge and lose most of his benefits for violating the policies, the Corps said.
The San Diego-area Marine who has served nine years in the Corps said he was disappointed by the decision. He argued that he was exercising his constitutional rights to free speech.
"I love the Marine Corps, I love my job. I wish it wouldn't have gone this way. I'm having a hard time seeing how 15 words on Facebook could have ruined my nine-year career," he told The Associated Press.
Gary Kreep, an attorney for Stein, said he would pursue administrative appeals within the Marine Corps but anticipates the effort will fail. He said he planned to file an amended complaint in federal court.
"As long as he wants to pursue this, we will be supporting him," said Kreep, who is executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, an advocacy group.
The Marines acted after saying Stein stated March 1 on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists, "Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him." Stein later clarified that statement, saying he would not follow unlawful orders.
Brig. Gen. Daniel Yoo, the commanding general of the Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, said in a brief statement Wednesday that evidence supported an administrative board's recommendation to discharge Stein.
Tom Umberg, a former Army colonel and military prosecutor, said Stein persisted even after being warned.
"The Marine Corps gave him the opportunity to think about his actions, yet Sgt. Stein continued to undermine the chain of command," said Umberg, who was not involved in Stein's case. "I think his purpose was to leave the Marine Corps in a dramatic fashion in order to begin a career in talk radio or what have you."
Umberg believes the decision to discharge Stein will have limited impact because the vast majority of Marines would never consider such postings.
"I think 99 percent of the soldiers and Marines currently on duty understand the duties of supporting the chain of command and understand their rights of free speech are limited," he said. "To that 1 percent who don't know their rights to free speech are limited once they take the oath, this is a loud and clear message."
During a hearing, a military prosecutor submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on a "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," military prosecutor Capt. John Torresala said.
At the hearing this month at Camp Pendleton, Torresala argued that Stein's behavior repeatedly violated Pentagon policy and he should be dismissed after ignoring warnings from his superiors about his postings.
The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.
Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.
Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials.
Re: Marine discharged for anti-Obama FB posts
Thoughts from those with a closer connection to the military?
(I don't, this is just my thoughts). My first reaction was that it seemed over-the-top to discharge him over critical FB posts. Apparently, though, as a member of the armed services his 1st Amendment rights are limited, and he was told by superior officers to knock it off. He also posted he wouldn't obey orders from Obama. At that point, I can see where it would be grounds for discharge.
If a civilian made a FB page mocking his CEO; I bet they wouldn't be working there much longer.
I had some sympathy when it was 1 status update, but then there were other incidents and previous warnings so now I think he got what was coming to him.
15 words? The article I read had a picture showing his banner pic being a "Nobama" logo. And a pic is worth a thousand words, right?
I don't have a lot of sympathy. If I trashed my boss to that extent in a public way, I would expect to be fired too.
First, he knew the rules imposed on the military. Second, he was told to stop and he didn't. Third, if I created FB pages with the goal of insulting my CEO, posting on company sites as if I represent that company, and I was stupid enough to use my real name, I'd be fired too.
Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences. He got discharged; in other countries, he'd be in jail or would have "disappeared."
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home D
No sympathy from me (former Marine) or any of the active duty Marines I know.
He publicly stated he would disobey the orders of the Commander in Chief and encouraged others to do the same, even if they politically disagreed with their chain of command. Imagine the chaos that could create in a civilian office. Now imagine that in a combat zone.
I don't have a closer connection to the military but I have no problem with this.
As others have said if you did this to the CEO of your company you'd likely be getting fired as well.
The entire issue has little to do with his political preferences and views. He can support whoever or whichever party he chooses. It's about him violating direct orders, breaking a contract (his oath), and most importantly inciting insubordination which can deteriorate discipline and wreak havoc on a unit. That's when you get people pissing on bodies.
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
It's not a question.
I have to say - at first glance, both DH and I were p!ssed off at the headline- but reading into it- it's his own fault.
We (dh and I) respect the office of the president/commander and chief - and if that is the way the oath/rules are stated- then he got what he deserved... or was hoping to have done to him - who knows.
I also know that serving can also screw you up mentally - my BIL is a mess in so many ways since his tours in Afganistan... so it's possible this guy is just fried in the brain and that is why he kept doing what he was doing .... either way - he got what he deserved.
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
More facebook stupidity. Obama is the Commander and Cheif and he is in the military, his comments were inappropriate and he got what he deserved for being such an idiot. Warnings or no warnings, he brought it on himself, it's hard to feel bad for him.
At the headline, I thought it was ridiculous. Then I read more.
This guy is an idiot. I'm guessing he was also the type to run his mouth at work, too.
I knew someone who had one of those Bush countdown thingies on his desk, and that was enough to get reprimanded.
You absolutely can have political views, even in the military, that are counter to the current administration. You just can't express it like this douche.
He's a dumbfuuk. You can be damned sure he knew better and decided to be a chode anyhow.
Is that confederate flag chick legal? Seems like they'd be perfect for each other
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Curmudgeon, military don't have free speech the way civilians do, so that's not even really an issue. Just check out this restriction on how political they can be. http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf
Also, this wasn't an isolated incident about stating he wouldn't follow orders. It was an entire campaign of smearing the president, his boss.
From my link, just a few things that are restricted that could apply. There are a lot of them.
4.1.2. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty shall not:
4.1.2.3. Allow or cause to be published partisan political articles, letters, or endorsements signed or written by the member that solicits votes for or against a partisan political party, candidate, or cause. This is distinguished from a letter to the editor as permitted under the conditions noted in subparagraph 4.1.1.6
4.1.2.5. Speak before a partisan political gathering, including any gathering that promotes a partisan political party, candidate, or cause.
4.1.2.6. Participate in any radio, television, or other program or group discussion as an advocate for or against a partisan political party, candidate, or cause.
I'm sorry for your BIL, but being messed up mentally is not this guy's problem. This guy's problem is that he is a narcissist who thinks that his opinions are more important than his position as a leader in the Marine Corps. He was in a position that influences others, he was warned by his superiors, and while he has the right to say what he wants, he doesn't have the right to maintain the honor of a leadership role in the military after he says it.
I'm glad the Marine Corps made an example of him. I hope they continue to remove service members who think the rules don't apply to them.
I think there are things you think but do not say. There are things you think but do not put on Facebook for the world wide web to see. If you put a bold statement out there, you have to be prepared consequences whether someone's feelings are hurt or you get fired. Whatever happened to discretion being the better part of valor?
CRAFTY ME
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