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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Catholic Teacher Fired for IVF Treatments
I didn't say this was but the world generally is pretty intolerant and bigoted. I'm not talking about this specific instance.
Same way that my public school got away with "asking" aka forcing pregnant students to leave, because they were afraid it would cause an epidemic and ruin all of the college bound students.
Its just something the school board agrees to, and if they are all corput(sp?) that is what ends up happening.
But since you are here you're going to add to the intolerance and claim a whole religion is ignorant?
I get it...people don't agree with the Catholic Church's position on fertility treatments and a slew of other things. That is 100% a-okay in my book, different strokes, for different folks and all that jazz. I don't believe in practicing kosher or wearing a burqa or praying to a slew of Gods depending on my needs. What is NOT okay is assuming the believers of this particular brand of religion is ignorant and sheep.
Going back to the original post, I think it's a safe assumption that this woman knew her employer's stance on IVF. If she felt the need to 1.) seek this type of treatment and 2.) share that information with her employer she ran the risk of facing repercussions from her employer. I think this woman's legal claim will all hinge on whether or not there was a contract or employee handbook detailing that she adhere to the employer's moral code in her personal life.
Im just going to ditto you on this because it sums up my thoughts.
Like I said before, the Church does not take an official stance on preserving life at this point. Their public message has been that we don't know enough about it yet. But every priest I've ever spoken to has said that if there's doubt as to whether or not a certain treatment is a good idea, it's best to decline the treatment.
It's actually supremely logical if you really delve into the theology behind it all. I could recommend a ton of great resources if you were actually interested, but my sense is that you're not.
Their beliefs are absolutely not inconsistent. They are written down and published in a Catechism. You can look them up. How members of the Church choose to follow or not follow the beliefs are a different story. But the Catholic Church as an organization is absolutely not inconsistent.
FFS I'm not being intolerant of Catholics I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in their arguments. That is not intolerance. It's simply being logical. I also know that being Catholic does not necessarily mean you believe the same things as the rest of them. Geez.
Disagreeing is just so intolerant. I don't give a flying f*ck what they believe. They can believe what they want. I'm just giving my opinion on it.
ETA: I'm married to a Catholic. I told him I would convert if he wanted me to. I must be soooooo intolerant of them.
But I feel like you're upset that you disagree with it. A lot of people on here are simply stating what they are, and you are well aware that they don't affect you in the least bit. No need to get pissy about it. I just find it really argumentative when someone keeps saying "This is wrong because it's illogical." It may be illogical but it's not wrong. That's my only point.
I didn't call you intolerant. You made a vague statement that people interpreted as you claiming the Catholic Church was bigoted. I'm saying your repeated claim that it's illogical is really just spinning wheels.
And I only repeated myself because I felt like you misinterpreted what I was saying. I know you didn't call me intolerant but many of the later things I said were sparked by the comments that I was being intolerant.
JMO, but if you dont agree with their doctorine, you shouldn't convert regardless if your husband wants you to or not. Not that you're saying you are converting or anything. But converting to a religion would be outwardly saying you agree with their doctorine. Which is part of my struggle with "being Catholic" right now.
I changed my name
But.. didn't God create the person (with the knowledge) to invent IVF?
Kidding.
Honestly, I don't know enough about the Catholic religion to really make a valid point. My (non Catholic) belief is I don't think IVF it's wrong. But, again.. I don't believe in the Catholic religion and if I did I could see it being a problem. These are what people believe in no matter if I do or do not understand/believe in it myself.
With that being said.. I obviously wouldn't take a job at a Catholic (or whatever religion) school if I didn't whole heartedly believe in what they practice.
I'm at work and a little late to respond. I agree with a lot of the other points made.
First, I was born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic School K-College and like others have said there are doctrines that I agree and disagree with. This is one I disagree with and I know it's because of my interpretation. (TBH I haven?t met anyone who has been able to convince me otherwise, but I?m open to hearing their arguments).
I'm actually glad you brought up the playing God argument. I believe that God is all knowing and has created all things- therefore God has given us the knowledge and the technology/means for IVF. Similarly, God has given us the means for avoiding pregnancy (BC/Condoms/NFP -- another argument), and a plethora of other life threatening aliment treatments (Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, Cancer, Genetic Disorders etc etc etc). So my creating and sustaining life belief is one in the same.
I do believe IVF should be implemented in a way that doesn't result in left over embroys frozen forever and forever, because I do believe we are not meant to live forever (regardless of the state of life).
Finally, I believe that God does have a plan for every single being and everything does have a meaning (although most of the time we will not know that meaning until we leave this world), that plan may not include conceiving naturally, but in my book that doesn?t automatically rule them out of parenthood. Instead, perhaps God?s plan for them was to go through the challenges and rewards of IVF and grow stronger as a couple, or to give them the opportunity to adopt (save/recue a life however you look at it).
I hope this makes my view clear.
Credit to Awkward Family Pet Photos
http://tiny.cc/kpfcdw
I think this is very well said. This is how I feel in my heart.
In regards to the OP, I think that it all depends on the contract she signed. If she agreed to abide by Catholic doctrine then she knew the consequences of her actions. Not unlike how the Marine mouthed off about Obama and was discharged as discussed last night.
I agree with all this too. Wholeheartedly. Very well said.
Now that you put it this way.. I'm leaning to agree with you.
This is VERY well said.
I'm baffled at the firing over a year after she first mentioned she was going to have IVF treatments. That seems strange to me. I might even say inconsistent... (if she broke a contract term, then she broke it... by not firing her when it was first mentioned, they tacitly gave permission for her to do it...)
Then again, I'm not a good one to guage this. The Catholic schools where I grew up would not be legally permitted to fire someone over this. Heck, they are required to offer spousal priviledges to the spouses of homosexual employees...
I don't think it's intolerant to disagree with aspects of a religion, nor to think it's inconsistent. I feel that way about multiple belief systems. Catholicism, Islam, etc. I love IVF. I definitely prayed over and over that God would make the babies sticky, and He did. All I did was put meds in my best friend's booty. All the doc did was toss some embryos up there (lol) and then God made them stick. I believe that with every fiber of my being.
I hope this woman is loving being a mom, and I hope she is happy staying at home, or finds a job in a public school. And I ditto wondering if all the men at the school are policed for their reproductive decisions.
I love that you used the word sticky.
It makes my heart smile. If I ever need IVF I hope I have an awesome friend like you that can be there for me like you have been.
Credit to Awkward Family Pet Photos
http://tiny.cc/kpfcdw
The issue I take with Ojo's comment about it being an ignorant way of thinking (and Sammy's agreement) is that it's a set of beliefs. Practicing Catholics and their leaders believe this type of treatment is morally wrong...just like many mainstream Christians and their leaders believe homosexuality is wrong. There is no way to prove that this line of thinking/belief is wrong...you can't put it to a test...and the universe doesn't have a handbook that tells us the answer.
I have my own feelings about IVF...I'm glad that it has given some of my friends the opportunity to become parents. I do believe that God has given us the intelligence to develop things like this but I also think it comes with a lot of responsibility that I don't think some doctors or patients take completely serious. (Obviously, the same could be said for the 16 year olds having unprotected sex.)
I hope I never have to be in the position that IVF was even a possibility let alone a necessity and I know that not being in that position has not afforded me the opportunity to truly feel the desperate longing for a child. With that said though, I see these cases of extreme high order multiples that were caused because 4 or 5 embryos were created and implanted and I have to wonder how anyone in that situation thought it would be a good idea for the babies, the pregnancy, or the lives of the parents & children.
I'm calling that ignorance because IVF is almost never what causes HOM. It's usually unmonitored Clomid, which is actually A-okay by the church's standards because it does not exclude coitus.
The church's standpoint is basically that a marriage license is synonymous with a loving, stable home, and that absence of that church recognized marriage is an abomination.
Unmonitored Clomid and IUI's (doesn't require creating or destroying embryos).
The second point is an excellent one.
ETA: IUI's with more than 2 mature follicles.