Let's talk standardized tests

pixy_stix · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
Yes, some parents don't tell their kids they can pass the test but why does that mean the teachers should turn up the AC

I've kept up with some educational forums, and there is a big problem with kids falling asleep during the tests if the rooms are too warm. Again, if you take a minute to calm your tits, you'd reason through to the answer. Warm/stuffy room, silence, nothing going on to keep their attention for hours on end = kids who fall asleep and fail the tests.

They're not purposefully trying to set these kids up to fail. Plus your insistence that they're stupid fuucks, and passing that on to your children, isn't going to help anything.

If you're really this pissed, how about you contact your state governing board and lodge a protest against standardized tests?

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

It's gum given to an eight year old. And since she doesn't chew peppermint gum while studying, I'm confused as to what memory bank connection it's making aside from the one where I have to tell her to stop smacking it, stop playing with it, and to throw it in the trashcan instead of sticking it to the nearest surface.

Although honestly, she's pretty good with gum. I still think she'll play with it and I'm sure as shiit not sending it to school with her.

Also, as I said clearly before, it's stupid as hell that my kid honestly believes that chewing a stick of damned gum will be the difference between passing and failing.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

pixy_stix:

hindsight's_a_biotch:
Yes, some parents don't tell their kids they can pass the test but why does that mean the teachers should turn up the AC

I've kept up with some educational forums, and there is a big problem with kids falling asleep during the tests if the rooms are too warm. Again, if you take a minute to calm your tits, you'd reason through to the answer. Warm/stuffy room, silence, nothing going on to keep their attention for hours on end = kids who fall asleep and fail the tests.

They're not purposefully trying to set these kids up to fail. Plus your insistence that they're stupid fuucks, and passing that on to your children, isn't going to help anything.

If you're really this pissed, how about you contact your state governing board and lodge a protest against standardized tests?

So why make it cold as fuuk now? The rooms there are kept consistantly cool in general. Why the hell are we freezing them out now? When my kid is coming home telling me he spend all day shivering, we're taking it to a ridiculous level.

And please, if you honestly think I haven't complained . . . really? Do you know me? You know as well as I do that you can lodge complaints and still be pissed.

AND LET ME MAKE THIS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR FOR THE LAST TIME, this isn't the only or even the foremost reason I think both my kids are stuck with dumb ass teachers this year.

I didn't say they were setting them up to fail. I'm saying they've ramped up expectations to an unbelievably high level without giving them the skills, knowledge, and appropriate confidence to pass the test. Bad grammer, pandering "rap" songs, and a stick of Trident isn't going to help them pass the test. Neither is sending a fleece hoodie to school with them on a 90 degree day.

amberlyrose · May 2012

taratru:

I don't believe that gum will make every kid pass a test. But if a kid believes that, a kid who normally wouldn't even try, what is the harm? I don't believe that a pool party will motivate every kid, but if it motivates some, again, what is the harm? And wtf at bad juju with gum in school?!?!

I'm sorry that your children have crappy teachers, really, I am. But to assume that *I* am in that bunch because I can see the benefit of alternative motivation for some students is insulting. Not every kid in a school has the same parental support that you give. Not every kid believes in their abilities like your kid. Some kids need the promise of a party. Some kids need the flucking gum. Some kids need to be bribed to perform. Never once did I say that was "right" or that I believe in it. But I have to do it, whether I agree or not, because my job depends on it, much like teachers everywhere. And it's only going to get worse.

When kids are bribed, they do better. Sorry. It sucks that teachers are using pool parties and ice cream and whatever else they have to do get these kids motivated but it works. There are some kids out there who will do a half-azz job when asked to clean their rooms. Tell them that they get a treat after if it's spotless and it will usually be cleaned better and faster. It is not that they don't have the ability to clean it, but there is motivation to do so because someone dangled the carrot in front of them.

And it's not just to motivate the kids.

My mom has to use an ice cream social at the end of the testing week for attendance purposes. ATTENDANCE! Not even doing well- they just have to show up for three days in a row. Half days! She has had parents who know that testing is going on and will pull their kid out of class for the most idiotic reasons. If she tells that parent the kid is going to be left out of an ice cream social because of it, they WILL figure out a way for the kid to be there. It's so so sad. It's not every child or every parent, or every school that is like this. But, when parents aren't motivated to even get the kid to school, teachers really do have to step in with all of this cr.ap.

And I bet the pool party will come out of the teacher's pocket.

taratru · May 2012

I don't have studies that it works, but I don't have studies that it doesn't. I read essays during the school year. Essays and this board. Research waits until I have to do it or it's given to me by an admin.

What I have is 17 years worth of anecdotes. Including last year, when ONE student made the difference for us meeting AYP. One out of almost 1,000. What if that one student would have "had the gum" or whatever what you see as useless fukkery and done better? Then the whole plan for our entire school would be different. How people are trying to motivate them isn't the problem. The problem is that we have to make such a big deal out of the test in the first place to have to even think about the motivation.

I. Don't. Like. The. Tests. The end.

But I will not get on board with lumping every single piece of motivation to do well on the tests into a "useless" category. Useless for some? Yes.

stephsteph77 · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:

It's gum given to an eight year old. And since she doesn't chew peppermint gum while studying, I'm confused as to what memory bank connection it's making aside from the one where I have to tell her to stop smacking it, stop playing with it, and to throw it in the trashcan instead of sticking it to the nearest surface.

Although honestly, she's pretty good with gum. I still think she'll play with it and I'm sure as shiit not sending it to school with her.

Also, as I said clearly before, it's stupid as hell that my kid honestly believes that chewing a stick of damned gum will be the difference between passing and failing.

A gum chewing study...

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-04-22/health/chewing.gum.benefits_1_wrigley-science-institute-gum-eighth-grade-math-students?_s=PM:HEALTH

From the article...

One line of research suggests that gum should no longer be treated as contraband in schools. This newest study indicates that chewing gum can lead to better academic performance.

Researchers at the Baylor College of Medicine took 108 eighth-grade math students from a Houston, Texas, charter school and divided them into two groups, following them for 14 weeks. One group chewed gum while doing homework and during test-taking situations. The other group did not chew gum at all.

The results were surprising. The gum-chewing students had a 3 percent increase in their standardized math test scores compared with those who did not chew gum. Also, the students who chewed gum had better final grades compared with the non-chompers.

2u2californiamama · May 2012

Teacher here...

Don't worry my class is at recess, not chewing gum in the freezing cold.

Chewing on gum or sucking on hard candy actually stimulates a part of the brain that helps with concentration and memory retrieval. Pepermint is know to have relaxing qualities. It makes sense to me.

Also, kids like learning dumb songs that have "holla" at the end, it is fun. Sometimes a silly song or chant can get them all pumped up and help them to forget that they are nervous.

I teach 1st grade so my class didn't take the test this year, but they know about it and are excited to "show everyone how smart they are next year."

Sometimes what a teacher does might sound crazy, but often there is a method to our madness. Back to teaching the word holla...

pixy_stix · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
It's gum given to an eight year old. And since she doesn't chew peppermint gum while studying, I'm confused as to what memory bank connection it's making aside from the one where I have to tell her to stop smacking it, stop playing with it, and to throw it in the trashcan instead of sticking it to the nearest surface.

I really think there's some disconnect between what you're being told by your 8 year old and what the teacher is saying in class. Please note, I'm not saying that she's lying, just that you're not getting the full message here.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

amberlyrose:

And I bet the pool party will come out of the teacher's pocket.

Not this teacher.

She constantly promises them things then demands that the parents cover the bill. When not enough parents agree to do so, she dictates notes to the students to the tune of "I understand that if I don't bring in $5 for x, I will not be allowed to participate and will have to sit outside the class while everyone else does."

You think I'm kidding? This actually happened this year with that warning.

Sure, five dollars doesn't sound like much. But this is a low income area and homegirl should have given the parents at least a few days warning. At minimum, she should have sent a note home saying that if parents were unable to send in the money, the party would be cancelled. The fact that she made it personal to each child infuriated me and I had the five dollars. Not everyone around here does and singling out a kid for such a thing seems a ridiculously cruel thing to do to some third graders.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

pixy_stix:

I really think there's some disconnect between what you're being told by your 8 year old and what the teacher is saying in class. Please note, I'm not saying that she's lying, just that you're not getting the full message here.

Yeah, I'd think so too but I know this teacher, pixy. This is right up her alley. Trust me, pinky isn't always all there. I'm fully aware of this.

But yeah, I guess it's easier to believe I'm a fuuking nutter than it is to accept that this teacher sucks.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

stephsteph77:

A gum chewing study...

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-04-22/health/chewing.gum.benefits_1_wrigley-science-institute-gum-eighth-grade-math-students?_s=PM:HEALTH

From the article...

One line of research suggests that gum should no longer be treated as contraband in schools. This newest study indicates that chewing gum can lead to better academic performance.

Researchers at the Baylor College of Medicine took 108 eighth-grade math students from a Houston, Texas, charter school and divided them into two groups, following them for 14 weeks. One group chewed gum while doing homework and during test-taking situations. The other group did not chew gum at all.

The results were surprising. The gum-chewing students had a 3 percent increase in their standardized math test scores compared with those who did not chew gum. Also, the students who chewed gum had better final grades compared with the non-chompers.

I'm sure 8th graders know better than to play with their gum in class.

pixy_stix · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
But yeah, I guess it's easier to believe I'm a fuuking nutter than it is to accept that this teacher sucks.

No one is saying that! We're trying to tell you that there *is* some sound reasoning behind what the school is doing, and you're just not listening because you think we're criticizing you. We're NOT! We're saying, hey look, we know it looks weird, but it works for xyz reasons.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

Yeah, nothing I'm saying makes any sense. You're right, pixy. I obviously have nothing to be concerned about here.

The reasoning might be there but the implementation is just plain assy. I don't know what to say if you don't get that. Not every broad idea is appropriate for every setting.

stephsteph77 · May 2012

2u2californiamama:

Teacher here...

Don't worry my class is at recess, not chewing gum in the freezing cold.

Chewing on gum or sucking on hard candy actually stimulates a part of the brain that helps with concentration and memory retrieval. Pepermint is know to have relaxing qualities. It makes sense to me.

Also, kids like learning dumb songs that have "holla" at the end, it is fun. Sometimes a silly song or chant can get them all pumped up and help them to forget that they are nervous.

I teach 1st grade so my class didn't take the test this year, but they know about it and are excited to "show everyone how smart they are next year."

Sometimes what a teacher does might sound crazy, but often there is a method to our madness. Back to teaching the word holla...

I actually taught my kids a "Rounding Rap" in September. It didn't end with HOLLA!, but it did end with YO! I can still see some kids mouthing it when they are working on rounding. And yes, they are 3rd graders. You never know what will stick with a particular group of kids, so you do all sorts of different strategies in the hopes that something clicks. Besides, kids like to stand up, wiggle, and be silly. They can "rap" about math while they do it.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

Oh sweet God, pinky just brought home a flyer letting me know it's teacher appreciation week next week. This would be all well and good were it not for the rest which goes on to give each day a theme along with suggestions of what gifts to give your teacher.

Lord, I'm not stabby over it or anything but eww, can you get any tackier?

I should buy my son's teacher a book on how not to make assumptions about your students based on their skin color or last name. Monday's theme is paper after all. Seems fitting.

2Vermont · May 2012

IAmMalcolmX:
It's a disaster here and now since we have had the cheating scandal its even worse. They now will not let your regular teacher be in the room with you while taking the test. This sucks especially if you have children with special needs in your class. The teacher has spent time getting to know the children and understanding how to help them focus. When the kid flips out and climbs the walls during the test, the teacher facilitating the test doesn't know what to do. As a result you have kids climbing the walls and those without special needs totally distracted while taking this test. They honestly need to find another way because this crap isn't working.

Sounds to me like these classified students need different accomodations if this is how they respond in a test situation. I would be curious if the school is actually providing the apporpriate accomodations according to their IEP's. For example, some students need to be tested in another room.

cookiemdough · May 2012

When did we begin celebrating teacher appreciation for a whole week? I thought it was one day?

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

cookiemdough:
When did we begin celebrating teacher appreciation for a whole week? I thought it was one day?

I have no effin clue. But Friday's theme is Perfect Pampering- make your child's teacher feel special and pamper with lotions, scented candles, lip gloss, etc.

taratru · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
Yeah, nothing I'm saying makes any sense. You're right, pixy. I obviously have nothing to be concerned about here.

The reasoning might be there but the implementation is just plain assy. I don't know what to say if you don't get that. Not every broad idea is appropriate for every setting.

Non-snarky question here: Then how do you propose teaching should work in a public school classroom?

2Vermont · May 2012

pixy_stix:
hindsight's_a_biotch:

But yeah, I guess it's easier to believe I'm a fuuking nutter than it is to accept that this teacher sucks.

No one is saying that! We're trying to tell you that there *is* some sound reasoning behind what the school is doing, and you're just not listening because you think we're criticizing you. We're NOT! We're saying, hey look, we know it looks weird, but it works for xyz reasons.

HAB.....I think you have a valid point if these things are used when the teacher was ineffective in teaching to the studetns in the first place....which is what I think you're trying to impart, right?

However, do you understand/are you willing to allow for the possibility that these strategies can be quite effective and valid if used in conjunction with good teaching?

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

::sigh::

Yeah, still glad you aren't my kid's teacher since you can't seem to grasp the concept that I'm speaking specifically to my child's teacher, class, and school.

LittleMoxie · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:

So why make it cold as fuuk now? So they are awake to learn things? So they get used to conditions during the test? The rooms there are kept consistantly cool in general. Why the hell are we freezing them out now? When my kid is coming home telling me he spend all day shivering, we're taking it to a ridiculous level.

And please, if you honestly think I haven't complained . . . really? Do you know me? You know as well as I do that you can lodge complaints and still be pissed.

AND LET ME MAKE THIS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR FOR THE LAST TIME, this isn't the only or even the foremost reason I think both my kids are stuck with dumb ass teachers this year. So complain about those. People are responding to these things because that's what you're getting all riled up about in this post.

I didn't say they were setting them up to fail. I'm saying they've ramped up expectations to an unbelievably high level without giving them the skills, knowledge, and appropriate confidence to pass the test. Bad grammer, pandering "rap" songs, and a stick of Trident isn't going to help them pass the test. Neither is sending a fleece hoodie to school with them on a 90 degree day.

As for her not having gum now so there will be no memory bank... isn't that exactly why she's starting to bug you for gum now?! If you give it to her, then there will be that connection.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

2Vermont:

HAB.....I think you have a valid point if these things are used when the teacher was ineffective in teaching to the studetns in the first place....which is what I think you're trying to impart, right?

However, do you understand/are you willing to allow for the possibility that these strategies can be quite effective and valid if used in conjunction with good teaching?

Thank you! This is all I'm saying. Sure, these things can work in certain and hell, even many settings. For instance, I don't care about the song. It's a fine idea provided it includes proper grammar and I get sufficient notice to attend the meeting where they will performing it. You know, instead of the one day notice I was given and the fact that they then had to cancel it because no one could come leaving my kid cranky that she didn't get to perform it.

Hell, even the gum business wouldn't have set me off if yet again, pinky's teacher would just send home a notice explaining what she was asking for and why instead of relaying information through an 8 year old to have me send in stuff she wants there the next day. Instead, this teacher has a habit of telling my kid something and then I look like the assbag when I don't have enough time to provide what she's asking for or when I disagree.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

LittleMoxie:

hindsight's_a_biotch:

So why make it cold as fuuk now? So they are awake to learn things? So they get used to conditions during the test? The rooms there are kept consistantly cool in general. Why the hell are we freezing them out now? When my kid is coming home telling me he spend all day shivering, we're taking it to a ridiculous level.

And please, if you honestly think I haven't complained . . . really? Do you know me? You know as well as I do that you can lodge complaints and still be pissed.

AND LET ME MAKE THIS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR FOR THE LAST TIME, this isn't the only or even the foremost reason I think both my kids are stuck with dumb ass teachers this year. So complain about those. People are responding to these things because that's what you're getting all riled up about in this post.

I didn't say they were setting them up to fail. I'm saying they've ramped up expectations to an unbelievably high level without giving them the skills, knowledge, and appropriate confidence to pass the test. Bad grammer, pandering "rap" songs, and a stick of Trident isn't going to help them pass the test. Neither is sending a fleece hoodie to school with them on a 90 degree day.

As for her not having gum now so there will be no memory bank... isn't that exactly why she's starting to bug you for gum now?! If you give it to her, then there will be that connection.

The test started on Monday. She was asked to bring in gum on Monday. The rooms were made colder Monday.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

And yes, I have repeatedly asked this teacher to actually contact me. I've sent letters to school, I've been up there to talk to her, I've met with her for conferences, I've made sure she has my number, etc and yet I'm still relayed second hand information and no clarification when I send in a note or call up there to find out what the hell is going on and what on earth she has against sending notes home.

taratru · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
::sigh::

Yeah, still glad you aren't my kid's teacher since you can't seem to grasp the concept that I'm speaking specifically to my child's teacher, class, and school.

Wow. So nice. Thanks for continuing to take it to a personal level. You're just hell-bent on making me out to be stupid today, aren't you?

You didn't say that like it was specific to your kid's classroom. I took it to mean as a general statement, since I've been talking in general education statements this whole time.

NOTHING works the same for every kid. Ever. Which is most of the reason the test sucks in the first place.

hindsight's_a_biotch · May 2012

You're welcome. Considering pretty much every post I've written here is discussing my kid's school, I'm not really sure why you're choosing to believe I'm speaking generically.

barefoot barista · May 2012

I haven't read the entire thread but- 1) teachers usually aren't given flexibility in how we teach the state mandated requirements. Every year it seems we have a new approach that we MUST follow. This year it was the 10 non negotiables for teaching. Before that, PESK strategies. before that Max Reading. We have to show how we use these teaching models in our lesson plans. Which, have to be approved by the dept chair, and then the administration. We are given hardly any flexibility in how we teach. 2) the things Pinkys teacher is telling her are probably points that are made to teachers in staff meetings. They tell us to tell the kids to layer their clothes in test day to keep comfortable. We have dumbass breakout sessions to come up with jingles and ideas to keep the test in the forefront of the kids brain. It really does all trickle down, starting with the school district. At principals meetings, they are told to relay this info to the staff and ways to keep us all motivated, in check, and on topic.

taratru · May 2012

You're clearly only interested in criticizing your children's teachers, which I wish I would have known. I was under the impression you were trying to make sense of what they were doing. Because I, thankfully for you, am not their teacher, I was trying to use generalizations to perhaps provide another avenue of thought. I didn't make this about your kid's ability, so I'm a little surprised that you decided to make this about my teaching ability.

TefLepOM · May 2012

hindsight's_a_biotch:
And yes, I have repeatedly asked this teacher to actually contact me. I've sent letters to school, I've been up there to talk to her, I've met with her for conferences, I've made sure she has my number, etc and yet I'm still relayed second hand information and no clarification when I send in a note or call up there to find out what the hell is going on and what on earth she has against sending notes home.

if you have documentation, go to the administration. That would be unacceptable in my school.

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