Politics & Current Events
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Re: On gay marriage, Obama will make a change you can believe in - in 2013
I'm sorry, I cannot contain my gigglesnort over chalking up his wishywashiness on gay marriage to his focus on healthcare and the economy. I just can't. He had people do something about health insurance in a way that we would only be able to guess about its success AFTER his second term. Same thing for the economy.
And brilliant politician? Please.
At this point, he's just a man who throws shiit at the wall to see what sticks. Actually, he has everyone else throw shiit at the wall and then claims credit for what sticks. He doesn't even have the balls to tell people exactly what shiit he wants thrown.
Healthcare costs are still out of control, the economy is still fairly firmly in the shitter and despite attemps to claim otherwise, we are still engaged in two wars and on the cusp of others.
Part of the reason congress has been thisclose to a standstill so very often is because Obama continually fails to take a definable stand. And then when people criticize him, it's all, well, I started out in a bad place and McCain would have been worse. That's fanfuckingtastic.
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And if he doesn't get a second term?
At any rate, what exactly can the president do by himself on gay marriage anyway? He can't legalize it all by himself, can he?
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Obama is representative of the Dems as a whole lately. Wah wah wah, the republicans won't agree with us so we're not gonna try at all.
Oh for fuuk's sake. It's much more believable when you're telling me the republicans are big old funsuckers if you try to push legislation and it fails than if you just sit on your hands. However, I was under the distinct impression that the blame republicans game was kicked into overdrive to cover up for the fact that the Dems as a whole aren't able to get shiit together even though they presumably have the votes to do so IF they could get all the Dems on board.
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The sad thing is I don't even know where he stands on it anymore so getting passed the sacred gates really doesn't matter
Nobody said anything about the wishywashiness. He campaigned on health care reform. He made it very clear that was going to be his major issue besides the economy. He spent most of his first term ramming healthcare reform through. You can agree or disagree with it, but it's not like he ran on "GAY MARRIAGE FOR ALL!" and then changed his mind. And anybody who expects the economy to come back from the greatest recession in the last few decades and an imploded housing market within a few years is delusional. It takes marriages longer to recover from a f*cking affair than people think it should take to get back into the economy of 2000. Not to mention that Obama is doing what he said he would do with the wars too - he's pulling out troops, handing the control over to the countries' leaders. What, do you think we should just peace out? Because that's a good idea.
That's what I'm talking about when I say Americans have short term memories and overly high expectations. I know 4 years sounds like a long time but in the grand scheme of history, it's a f*cking blip. And when you're dealing with a Congress that fights you every damn step and some of the most bitter bi-partisanship I've seen in a while what exactly do you expect to get done?
Also, he IS a Christian and I can completely see him struggling with his religious beliefs and his position as the President. I think he's the type of person who would have an extremely hard time with it. He might not agree with it, but I don't think he feels he has the right to dictate his religious beliefs on everyone else. Hence the civil unions. I think it's a happy medium in his mind.
Bottom line? I would rather have had Obama in the White House these past years than a far-right-wing nut. I'd rather have him for another four years than Romney.
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QFT
Which is what he's banking on.
Two party system FTW!
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Healthcare reform
What we got was a health insurance overall that we still aren't sure will actually lower costs either to the individual or to the nation as a whole. But you're right, I totally have short term memory problems.
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i fixed that for you
No, you have overly high expectations. Any reform would have taken at least two years to take effect. At least. And that's assuming that all parties are playing nicely with each other. So this idea that there would somehow have been a way to wave a magic wand and POOF healthcare costs are down and everybody is happy is just not feasible.
Totally, it's alll the republicans fault.
::sigh::
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Eh, I think everybody is doing this. Honestly, I think nobody has a friggin' clue how to handle the economic mess, so they're all looking for distractions. That's my theory on why all these anti-abortion bills have been cropping up in Republican-controlled state legislatures. If you don't know how to fix what's wrong, find a solution in need of a problem to draw voters in. Nobody has the market cornered on not being able to get their shiit together to come up with solutions.
As for the Dems saying they won't try, once again, it's a matter of perspective. Republicans say Democrats aren't trying to compromise, and Democrats say that Republicans are moving right.
I don't think there's much denying that the Republican Party has moved to the right over the last 30 years. I think a lot of Dems are frustrated because when they feel that when they move center, the Republicans just pick up the goalposts and move it a little farther right. You may not agree that this is what's happening, but I think the shift to the right by the GOP has certainly created a foundation for this perception.
i'd love to find some stats about how many times the filibuster has been invoked in the past 3 years. because yes, blocking all legislation with a filibuster would be the R's fault on this.
from what i understand they just blocked a bill to extend lower interest rates for student loans. WTF?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/student-loan-vote-fails_n_1499917.html
But they aren't going down now or even down the road. Yes, there is coverage for so many more people and that is a good thing but we've seen very few nonpartisan assessments that suggest this won't cost a ginormous amount of money that people and the country probably won't be able to afford for very long.
So what's the point of overhauling health insurance if it turns out to be unsustainable, particularly under the burden of a shitty economy with other entitlements like medicaid and social security sucking at the tit as well?
I'm not expecting an overnight change, far from it. I just don't see what has happened as measurable change. Affordable birth control is all well and good. But we also need affordable insulin, blood pressure meds, etc.
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LOL.
I love when the Dems like to remind Reps that Americans have a short memory and expect quick fixes and need to give the President MORE time...when a Dem president is in office and can't seem to get things done. Likewise,the Reps do the same thing when it's a Rep president.
Number one problem with our system - it's everyone else's fault. Let's point fingers instead of fixing it.
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I'm not disagreeing that it's an across the board problem. The issue I'm having is that we never discuss this as an across the board problem. To my eyes, particularly around here, Dems are getting a free pass. Even in this thread, there's a pretty consistant reluctance to make Obama responsible for the lack of leadership he's shown throughout his presidency. Every time we discuss the topic, it devolves into a "you just hate Obama" and "it's not his fault people the republicans suck."
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From the article:
"They [Democrats] want to raise taxes on people who are creating jobs, while we're still in the midst of the greatest recession since the Great Depression." - Sen. Lamar Alexander
Someone tell me what planet Senator Alexander was from if he actually believes the bolded statement he just made there.
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DIsn't it everyone's fault though? Additionally I disagree Obama is the reason Congress is at a standstill. Let's say he actually did have some balls ( yeah everyone get up off the floor from laughing) does anyone think Congress would actually get anything accomplished? Like let's say passing a budget? Or would it be the business of name-calling and finger pointing as usual? I believe it would be the latter.
Regarding the Health Care law I will freely admit I am not convinced it will bring costs down. The solution to that issue is a very complicated answer no one seems to want to take the time or energy to attempt to tackle. That said, it's unfortunate it had to fly through so fast however the Dem's had no other choice in that matter IMO.
PS- HAB I admit I skimmed the post of your I was addressing so if you are scratching your head I will understand.
It's definately everyone's fault. On that, I wholeheartedly agree.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, but the dems have had the votes to pass a budget at various times if they could get all the dems on board. Obviously, it would be easier with republican support as well so they are equally to blame for the current state of fuukery.
And I am not so sure that Obama having a spine or balls would change much but at least I'd have some respect for him, kwim? And I think respect for the president himself, not just his office just might move things forward a bit.
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For the record, I'm not speaking for the entire Democratic party, and I'm actually registered as an Independent.
I don't think we need to give the President more time. I think we need to give the REFORMS more time. You cannot expect immediate change in a government as bogged down in red tape and partisanship and political bullsh*t as ours.
how are you supposed to change anything if a majority votes to debate a bill but is blocked from doing so because the minority prevents it because the majority isn't enough of a majority?
you want a jobs bill? tough. student loan interest rate reduction? f*ck off. discussion about reduction of oil subsidies? nope. and that budget stalemate? how was that "negotiation"?
let's do away with the filibuster and then see how government can actually work.
Huh? The GOP controls the House. The Democrats have very narrow control of the Senate. It requires cooperation. Which means we're all fucked.
no. there are 57 democrats. 60 is a filibuster-proof majority. without the 60, nothing happens.
Here is me with my once again very naive prospective.
I don't care if things can be filibustered or stone walled or shoved into an interns hand and lost as she is picking up her Starbucks....these things shouldn't matter, what should matter is staying true to your convictions regardless of what the outcome may or may not be. Side stepping an issue or not taking a stand makes me see red and I don't care what party you belong to.
Pollyanna out.
Ding! DIng! Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Etc., Etc. Honestly, it doesn't matter if Obama had the biggest ball sack of them all - can't get sh!t done with congress.
When can we just flood Washington and start over?
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This is what I mean. It's a "well, that's great but what about *insert here*". Change starts small. The point of overhauling the healthcare system is SOMETHING needed to be done. I'd prefer we try and fail then just sit on our asses and twiddle our thumbs until the perfect solution comes along because that's just not going to happen. Someone is going to have to give, something is going to have to get cut, and people are going to get left out. If nothing else, this will possibly force a decision on what exactly is the most important thing to focus on in healthcare reform, because it's incredibly broad and expansive.
And as far as it costing more? I think this is a great time to offer up some much needed cuts in the budget. If afforable healthcare is really important to everyone, and we really want it to happen, then let's trim some fat from the national budget (coughcoughdefensebudgetcough), raise some taxes and make that sh*t happen. If it's not, well, then admit to it and deal with the fallout from the American public. National healthcare is important to, say, Sweden. They get taxed out the ass, but because they've made quality of life an important part of their national culture they're okay with it. Americans want better healthcare, better Social Security, etc but they don't want to pay anymore for it and in fact, let's cut some taxes too but OH MY GOD you better not cut anything from the defense budget because THE TERRORISTS, YOU GUYS. And then they want to know why the budget is completely f*cked, and FIX IT. But don't touch my Medicare.
It's a bigger symptom of what I think is the problem and that is nobody is willing to let go of their pet projects or their pork spending or their lobby buddies or just straight work across the aisle to get sh*t done.
i'm not saying the guy hasn't totally buckled in the past 3 years because i do.
that said, how on earth can you expect anything to get done when you have to work with what amounts to a screaming child as a partner? every time he says, "i want to do this." the reaction is "NONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!' until it dies. there's no way for change to be made when the other side has specifically said they won't work with you for that change. it's just not going to happen.
so i guess if you want the Dems to take blame for the lack of change over the last 4 years then the Reps have to also, right? or you could just keep saying he has no spine or no balls or whatever.