July 2009 Weddings
reenie83
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Penn State
Can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet since it's been all over the news today and more information about the penalties keeps coming out.
Thoughts anyone?
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Re: Penn State
I'm surprised by the penalties. I never expected that they'd come out this strongly against the school, however I think it's justified. Child sexual abuse versus football?
Yes, I think it might kill their football program for the next 4-5 years but that doesn't seem all that significant compared to the things that were covered up. I get that some are saying it's not fair for the athletes who had nothing to do with the situation. That does suck, but there are plenty of other schools for those who are just wanting to play football. The school should have taken the right steps before and then they wouldn't be having to deal with the mess.
I admit, I haven't followed it too closely. However, I think what Reenie says makes sense. Football vs child abuse, no competition there. (sorry athletes or fans)
I think they did the right thing penalty-wise. It's clear that the school treated the football program and everyone involved as untouchables and the hero-worship wasn't going to stop unless there was a serious blow to the football-above-everything culture.
I feel a little bad for the football players that are getting slammed because of the leadership's failure, but they can transfer without penalty so I imagine quitre a few of them will.
Kate's Recipe Box || Relatively Bookish
I honestly don't know a lot about it and i'm not really a sports fan so I just hear when big things hit the news. So take my opinion with a bit of a grain of salt.
I think it is a good thing. I think they need to make an example to say that kind of $hit won't fly.
Yes, it sucks for the currently players, especially regarding scholarship money and so on, but I really don't know how else you could do it.
I do feel bad for the kids who are being punished for something that they had no part in. Sure they can transfer, but it still greatly affects them and they did nothing wrong.
That said, I'm not sure that they could have punished the school, athletic program/football without doing what they did and taking away the things that they did. And I agree that the consequences needed to be severe based on the severity of the situation. Taking away the scholarships will affect the program greatly because those top recruits will be going somewhere else where they can get a scholarship. So while I do feel bad for the kids who are already on the team, I think that it was appropriate in this situation.
Actually Laura, I really would like to hear your opinion on this. I know you're a huge fan. (and I mean this without malice-I realize that it sounds kind of bitchy)
I know it was a cover up from day one, and that Paterno seems like he definitely got thrown under the bus. But what are fans most angry about?
I also would really like to hear your perspective.
Okay, so I actually don't think the NCAA should have gotten involved. Now, I'm not a big sports person, so like Lindsey said take my opinion with a grain of salt...
I don't get why the NCAA thought it was a good idea to punish the students. That's really what they did. What is the point of shutting them out of 4 years of bowl games? That does nothing.
Besides, why is the NCAA trying to play law? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the NCAA set up to make sure athletic programs did not pay students, have recruiting violations, and uphold a standard of academics for players?
IMO, let the law put in jail/punish the administrators. Let the school fire them. But the NCAA? Butt out. While I hate the situation and feel like the victims deserve justice, this doesn't seem to be it. There were no ill gotten wins or actual athletic issues.
But, like I said, not a big sports fan, so feel free to enlighten me.
Per NCAA
"By perpetuating a "football first" culture that ultimately enabled serial child sexual abuse to occur, The Pennsylvania State University leadership failed to value and uphold institutional integrity, resulting in a breach of the NCAA constitution and rules. The NCAA Division I Board of Directors and NCAA Executive Committee directed Association President Mark Emmert to examine the circumstances and determine appropriate action in consultation with these presidential bodies."
All NCAA athletes, coaches, and adminstration are governed by the NCAA(as well as the university they work for)-they breach the rules, NCAAcan hand down any punishment they want.
:coming out of lurking for a bit:
This above ^^^^ is right. The NCAA did have an obligation to get involved because it was directly related to football which is directly related to the NCAA.
One of the sports radio dudes in Nashville also made an interesting point about the harshness of the penalty. In the land of all-holy college football, the threat of having this type of consequence (basically destroying the program for 4-10 years) might actually do more to help discourage any kind of cover-up in the future more than it 'just' being the rape/molestation of a child. Which is a truly disgusting thing to think about, or type, or read, I understand, but it's true. Especially of the top programs
Here's an article by the guy who said this, and he covers it a bit down the page:
http://outkickthecoverage.com/ncaa-hammers-penn-state.php
Despite all that, I have great sympathy for the families of all involved, and all the Penn State nation. How would you feel if the guy that you looked up to and respected literally all of your life suddenly came out as a monster or an accessory to something awful? I don't blame them for trying to rationalize (to a point) their feelings towards JoePa and the football program.
Alright, later dudez.
I'm kinda surprised they didn't get the death penalty and I think Penn State should be happy that didn't happen.
If it was my school, I would be fine with any penalties they received. I still can't believe the extent of this terrible situation.
Same. I would be fine with UO having the same penalties if the situation were reversed. Flame-worthy, but I would definitely not still be supporting/worshiping a coach that was such a coward.
I get stripping past wins from Paterno. I don't get taking the bowl games and scholarships. Well, I get the scholarships kinda because it prevents building the program... Even still I feel that the bulk of the punishment does really land on those that deserve it. I think it hurts the kids more than the people involved.
Thanks for stopping by Liz
I was thinking of giving my opinion, but this solidified exactly why I'm not going to. People already automatically assume this is my mentality before I even get the chance to say anything so I'm already fighting an uphill battle which puts me at an unfair advantage. I'm tired of basically being told I support little boys being raped because I went there.
I've stayed out of this thread so far, but I do want to say...You're being very presumptive about how people will react to your opinion, because some people may try to see where you're coming from. However, I'm guessing you've already received backlash from people on FB or elsewhere which is why you don't want to speak up. I can't help but think if you had just given your 2 cents from the beginning, you wouldn't feel as though you're climbing an uphill battle here though. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if people don't understand each others. Do I think you support little boys being raped? Of course not. Do I understand your loyalty to Paterno? Absolutely not. Do I need to, though? No. I do wonder though if some diehard fans would feel differently if it was their child who was abused.
Edited: I didn't mean the "Do I need to, though? No" in a rude way! I meant that it's okay if we have differing opinions.
I don't think anyone would accuse you of supporting what happened to those boys. Honestly, I don't think whether someone went to school there or not effects the situation, although the penalties probably impact a lot differently. I don't expect any alumni to suddenly dislike Penn State.
Yeah...I'm definitely being presumptive..I'll full admit that, but only based on those two comments I quoted and you're exactly right..backlash i've already seen/heard elsewhere. So I have a wall up that everyone just assumes that because I went there, I am lumped in with the rest of them. What I actually think has nothing to do with Paterno...but that's what everyone automatically assumes, which is why I feel like it's pointless for me to say anything. Post-pregnancy hormones are great that way...it may not be logical to feel that way, but I do.
If you actually stated your opinion though, no one would have room to assume anything...
I'm not disagreeing..I was fully planning on writing it up earlier but didn't have time until a little bit ago and then saw those two comments. We'll see how I feel later when I have time again.
My comment was not intended to be directed at you personally in any way, and I'm sorry if it made you feel like you couldn't post. I hope you can read this thread without taking the comment personally, but I know it might be difficult. Your opinion is welcomed, truly. This is just mine. I don't think that every Penn State fan is still defending JoePa, but some are, and after the Freeh Report I don't understand why. I do understand the emotional roller coaster and mixed feelings it would be for fans when someone so greatly admired has fallen like this.
Ditto. I see no reason that the football first mentality should be supported.
I have such contradicting opinions about this.
I feel for the players/students who were innocent in the situation and are still feeling penalized. As a huge sports fan, I understand how I would feel if someone just took our Super Bowl win away....
However, if they took our win away because someone on the Colts was pulling that shiit, I would understand why they did it. I understand JoPa is a legend. I get that. I really do. And I respect that. But let's not lie, he knew about it. And from my understanding, he did tell his superiors about it. But they did nothing about it. So why didn't he go to the police? And I understand that now his legacy is tarnished in the views of a lot of people (as far as mine go, he was still a good coach but I don't agree with his actions.) but his legacy is tarnished because of his own reactions (or lack there of) to what was happening.
I'm not trying to offend anyone at all, just stating my own opinion.
I agree with you (shocker). Which is also how I can still respect Michael Vick or Tiger Woods or others as athletes despite their actual character (or lack thereof). And I believe that's what's giving the Penn State people such a hard time with this and causing them to still defend JoePa. Not because they condone his or anyone else's actions, and not because they don't have sympathy for the victims, but because they're still seeing him as a coach, of which he was damn good. Some people can compartmentalize, and some can't separate one from the other. Both are ok.