Philadelphia Nesties
Tianacheron
member
Ridin dirty
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PA Supreme Court Voter ID
Ruling is expected by the end of the month...
Ridin dirty
Re: PA Supreme Court Voter ID
I also see both sides of the argumet (especially regarding the time frame between enactment and the pres election - I think this should have been enacted during a non presidental election year), BUT ... I can't get into half the buildings down in center city without showing my photo id. I was also shocked the first time I went to vote and I didn't need to show an id. I need my driver's license to do everything now a days - like the PP said, how are these people getting cold meds without proper id? To me, it just really seems like a no brain to need to show photo id to vote to protect the results against fraud.
I understand that, and that people are saying this is a poll tax, which is why I see the other side (for me).
I don't want my crazy aunt to roll up into a few different centers and use other people's name. I don't want to go to my voting place and be told that I had already voted.
Pa doesn't give out free Ids it is unconstitutional period. It requires people to buy an ID. They implemented this law right before an important election and didn't make the steps ie get free Ids Availaiable beforehand. Pa is a swing state it's important for everyone to have a free voice.
To prevent voter fraud you are given a polling card your first time you vote in a district and then you sign you name your signature becomes your ID.
Really i am going I leave I need to clean my house ASAP.
This.
If you are found guilty of voter fraud, you're looking at a possible 5 year prison sentence and a fine up to $10,000 (for citizens) and possible deportation for immigrants.
My personal opinion is that this is a lot of time and money being spent on a non-issue and, worst of all, takes away one of our most fundamental liberties from the marginalized groups of our society. People don't commit voter fraud, 1. they just don't and 2. the possible penalties for doing so aren't worth the risk to reward. Also, it's hard enough to get most Americans to vote in the first place never mind to go out and do it multiple time fraudulently. The elderly, homeless, poor and minorities of America still deserve their right to vote and the voter id laws are straight up BS.
negative. I've never gotten one. I just went in and gave my name which is always a joy in trying to explain to people.
And this. It is basically a voter tax on those that are already poor, on fixed incomes or do not have the ability to easily get to a DMV to get the IDs. Sure, it probably won't effect anyone on this board, but that doesn't mean it's not wrong.
I'm going to agree and disagree...
You buying medicine, flying on an airplane or cashing a check are not basic rights that are granted to you by the constitution - i'm stretching, but I feel medicine and medicinal care is covered under the 8th ammendment "Cruel and unusal punishment". Like I said, it's a stretch, or it could be covered under the Preamble as an unalienable right.
The rest of your statement I agree with 100%. I also agree with the points that this was the wrong time to do it.
The people effected are not doing these things. They aren't you and me. They are in nursing homes, living in the streets and most likely getting their money from a card given to them by the government or being paid for their work in cash.
I thought you could get it for free. And I was thinking about homeless people this morning. Where do they register to vote? What address do they use and where do they find out their polling location? That's what I was thinking about on my drive in this morning.
All due respect, a stretch doesn't even touch that with a 10 foot pole...cruel and unusual punishment governs what the states can and cannot due in regards to a person that was convicted of a crime and the four principles in determining cruel and unusual are:
The "essential predicate" is "that a punishment must not by its severity be degrading to human dignity," especially torture.
A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion."
A severe punishment that is clearly and totally rejected throughout society
A severe punishment that is patently unnecessary
And i'm not even going to go there with the unalienable rights thing, because i'm sure the constitution doesn't fascinate everyone like myself
I've never looked into it but my guess would be that they use the address of a homeless shelter. I do know that they do have the right to vote regardless of their living situation.
<-- Con Law geek.
Go ahead, I'm procrastinating like a fiend today, might as well be educated. How is obtaining medicine not an unalienable right?
I can walk into a pharmacy and pick up my mom's, best friend's, mother's prescription for her. I've actually done this. Yes, I had to sign for it and show my ID to get it but it didn't have to be my prescription to do so. That being said, I can also pick up any other over the counter drug that requires an ID and give my purchase to another person.
I can also walk into an ER with a broken arm, refuse to tell them who I am or show an ID and still be treated. My friend works in an ER and regularly the homeless walk in, fill out a form with bogus information and they are looking for nothing more than a hot meal and a warm place to sleep for a couple of hours. They aren't denied care because they don't have an ID on them.
An unalienable right is one that you cannot surrender, transfer or sell, and most importantly they are rights that cannot be altered by law or taken away. The "right" to buy claritan, zyrtec or any other medicine can technically be taken away or deemed unlawful to possess, sell or distribute.
Buying medicine is an option that you choose to take to treat a condition that you have been diagnosed with (by yourself or a medical professional) and like i said before, its NOT a right that's granted to you under the constitution similar to the right to vote. The comparison is like apples and bmw's, it just doesn't work.
I think it can be argued that voter fraud is seriously underreported, unnoted and under prosecuted. I do think it is much higher than reported as it is with most reported crime statistics. I'm not arguing that it is a very large percentage but I can almost guaranteed it will much more than stated.
I'm kind of torn. I really get both sides, and understand that it is our Constitutional Right, but those Rights also can be restricted such as it is for certain convicted felons. Additionally, I would even argue that even without a required ID law, it still wouldn't be equal. Individuals still need to get to the voting facilities. Those that are homeless, poor, impoverished, disabled, etc. would/are limited in their transportation to this facilities compared to those of other financial situations. Those impoverished are not given free transportation therefore they are at an unequal/unfair advantage. Also, what about absentee ballots? You have to go to the courthouse, collect the ballot, complete it and mail it which costs the money in transportation, stamps, envelope, etc. This is a stretch and probably affects much less of the population but things are not inherently equal however you want to cut it.
Also, I would argue that the majority of minorities and homeless have ID's. Most shelters will not allow anyone without an ID (trust me I have tried to do this for my clients) and most that cash their checks have an ID. I understand the fundamental equality issues but I think regardless there will always be inherit equality issues more than the ID's. Really, the way to fix this, is to make ID's free for any low income individuals than bam....problem fixed.
And, I love Constitutional issues as well
I think it can be argued that voter fraud is seriously underreported, unnoted and under prosecuted. I do think it is much higher than reported as it is with most reported crime statistics. I'm not arguing that it is a very large percentage but I can almost guaranteed it will much more than stated.
I'm kind of torn. I really get both sides, and understand that it is our Constitutional Right, but those Rights also can be restricted such as it is for certain convicted felons. Additionally, I would even argue that even without a required ID law, it still wouldn't be equal. Individuals still need to get to the voting facilities. Those that are homeless, poor, impoverished, disabled, etc. would/are limited in their transportation to this facilities compared to those of other financial situations. Those impoverished are not given free transportation therefore they are at an unequal/unfair advantage. Also, what about absentee ballots? You have to go to the courthouse, collect the ballot, complete it and mail it which costs the money in transportation, stamps, envelope, etc. This is a stretch and probably affects much less of the population but things are not inherently equal however you want to cut it.
Also, I would argue that the majority of minorities and homeless have ID's. Most shelters will not allow anyone without an ID (trust me I have tried to do this for my clients) and most that cash their checks have an ID. I understand the fundamental equality issues but I think regardless there will always be inherit equality issues more than the ID's. Really, the way to fix this, is to make ID's free for any low income individuals than bam....problem fixed.
And, I love Constitutional issues as well
an absentee ballot is available for those who can't leave the house to Vote because voting in an inalienable right. Also the city does provide FREE transport to polling places for voters. You do not need to be a permanent resident to vote in pa college students can choose to vote here. Hence homeless have the same right.
110% disagree on the underreporting of voter fraud, unlike other crimes the risk/reward for voter fraud just isn?t there and again we as a cash strapped state is spending $$ on problems that do not exist, let alone disenfranchising potential voters.
The rights of felons are restricted because of actions on their part, I personally don?t think that?s appropriate, but that?s not what we?re talking about here since their right or lack thereof will not change under this new law. So if you can acknowledge that some people are already disenfranchised due to circumstances that you mentioned, why would you be okay for adding an additional level of difficulty for people to exercise their right to vote.
The ID you can obtain for admittance to a shelter, which frankly for the one?s I have and do volunteer for have no requirements for this, does not have to be a government issued identification that you?d need to vote. You can get a free ?voter id? now but yet of the estimated 758,000 PA residents that don?t have id only 8,127 residents have obtained the free one, so no, free id?s don?t solve the problem.
I?m sorry, I just don?t get the being torn part, but frankly its one of those things where if it isn?t a problem for you or anyone that you know, then the ?problem? just doesn?t exist?.
Umm..yeah, not really. If you get out of the city, they do NOT have free transportation or frankly really any public transportation. And, clearly you didn't get my point about an absentee ballot, I get it is their right, but their ability and cost to cast that absentee ballot is unequal.
Umm..yeah, not really. If you get out of the city, they do NOT have free transportation or frankly really any public transportation. And, clearly you didn't get my point about an absentee ballot, I get it is their right, but their ability and cost to cast that absentee ballot is unequal.