Family Matters
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: The Name Game
If you'll recall, I said in my response that it was my opinion. If others' opinions are that your opinion is side-eye worthy and WTF-deserving, that is their opinion.
Neither you nor MommyLiberty seem to comprehend that freedom of speech doesn't exist to protect your rights yet limit the rights of others. Perhaps stepping away from the internet would be the best option for you both.
Thanks, I did need a laugh. Really, I was just looking for a vent. As I said I know this is not something fixable unless I want to talk to everyone individually.
I was trying to be respectful of women who don't mind taking their husbands names but my issue is with the concept that my husband is "head of the house hold" he isn't. This is a joint effort, neither of us are in charge. I was look for more along the lines of lighthearted sympathy because I know pointing it out to people will seem petty.
To the people who dismiss my need to keep my last name , shame on you. I was not trying to dismiss your choice to change your last name. I apologize if that is how I came off. But saying my reasons aren't really reasons ignores my right to have different values than you. NurseRobinson is entitled to her personal beliefs and I can respect her opinion. If this were a super sensitive topic I would have no business posting in on a board and inviting others to comment.
Really I was just looking for a little support in the "it-is-rough-dealing-with-cultural-traditions-you-have-no-plan-to-follow-camp" but the comments that I am not sure of myself or I must feel inadequate or I am a small person would really hurt if that was at all true, lol. I will say I am a bit hot tempered and a tad impassioned in my beliefs, and once again apologize if my post that was interpreted as disparaging of other people's personal values/beliefs. I thought I was clear that my comment was personal feeling based. I preciate lettygonzalez88 for understanding the vein I was commenting in.
I will say this I did get a good laugh out of the posts, and will attempt to "get my panties" un-bunched. I also enjoyed the correct use of ad hominem in a board post.
They're probably confused. You can't be "Mrs. Wife Name-Name". You can be <no title> Firstname Name-Name or Ms. Firstname Name-Name or even Ms. Name-Name, but not Mrs. Mrs. can only be used with your husband's unadulterated last name and only recently became appropriate with a wife's first name.
Totally agree with this sentiment.
This issue has nothing to do with how you choose to style yourself.
The first time I married, I kept my birth name. I sent out all my TYs using cards with "at home cards" and still found some people disregarded it. And it wasn't just older people, some of the worst "offenders" were younger people who were more traditional. The worst were some of the women with whom I worked.
If it really bothers you, say something to them. You're entitled to be called whatever you like. If it's coming from DH's family, he should say something.
Look I couldn't care less whether a person changes their name or not. And I will make an effort to call them by the right name. Yes I changed my name. No DH is not the head of our household. At all. I think that is a load of crap personally.
But I still think you are taking this way too personally. It is personal to you because you have strong feelings about it. But most people are just trying to get their Xmas cards out on time. So what I was trying to get across to you is to not approach people about this issue in the confrontational way you presented it here. Because I'm sure it was an innocent mistake. And they are going to wonder wtf is up with you if you do freak out. So hopefully you can maybe see that with all this fighting going on. I'm sure it does suck to have to correct your name, but it will hopefully get easier with time.
Good lord this thread escalated since I responded. Lol!
No need for me to step away from the internet because my feelings don't get hurt over what internet strangers say. It's just funny to me that ladies are so quick to jump and say that the husband is the head of the household is crap, but have yet to answer where the tradition of the name change came from.
That is the only reason why I said the husband is the head of the household because I thought that is where the name change came from.
And as far as having opinions, everyone is entitled to have one, but how everybody thinks its ok to put down my religious beliefs, I don't think the same people would think it's ok if I started putting down their beliefs.
TTC since September 2012
You know the saying, "rule of thumb"? That comes from the rule that it was okay to beat your wife with a stick as long as it wasn't thicker than your thumb. Man, wish we would have kept that tradition alive too, hey?
Why be submissive when you can be a partner?
You are correct the reason the tradition exists today of taking a man's name is based on their history of being the providers. This practice dates back to when mankind switched from hunter/gathers to an agriculture based society. Oddly the concept of women being men's property was a foreign concept prior to that. Hunter/gatherer societies were female based. Worship was of the earth mother/goddess in many forms and families traced their heritage solely through the females. This female honor society was based off of the tribes poor understanding of reproduction. You could only be sure your mother was your mother but anyone of a number of possible tribal males could be your father.
As the switch to farming came about the land could be forced to support a larger population and therefore the wandering of tribes ceased and promiscuity needed to be stopped. In a small village that type of behavior could destroy the stability. It was one thing when your home changed through out the year due to migration patterns of animals that need to be hunted, the whole tribe would act as a family unit supporting the offspring. Women and men hunted. If people stopped getting along it was not hard to pick up and move to another nearby tribe. However when people were able to settle down, mankind was able to survive and function in smaller family units closer to what we today would recognize as a household. Men would go out on hunting expeditions and women would stay at home and mind the fields and offspring. Over the years it went from being practical to being cultural and eventually traditional.
It wouldn't be until the women's liberation movement that inequalities would be viewed in a harsher light. And pairing of women's suffrage and civil rights would focus on the concept of inequality. From there we can move to the present day (2007) when Michael Buday sued the state of California because it was easier for a woman to change her name upon being married than it was for men. Now it is just as "easy" for a man to change his name upon his first marriage as it is for a woman to change her name with her first marriage. In both cases second marriages are a mess to get names changed.
My oh my. My whole point is going over your head. I didn't say to keep the tradition or not keep the tradition. It is up to the wife/couple. I was only stating that I thought that is where the tradition came from. Just forget it. You are getting all worked up over something I never said. I don't care what goes on in other married people's homes. Do you get it now? I feel like I'm arguing now and I don't like that. A debate is one thing, arguing is nms. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.
I don't mind answering your question. Why be submissive when you can be a partner? Well, I am a partner. DH knows to come and discuss things with me before making decisions,(unless the decision has to be made right then and there), and I do the same with him. Anyone irl would tell you that DH spoils me to death. 99% of the time, I get my way. Our beliefs are not one sided. The husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and wives are to be submissive to your husband. When DH shows that type of love for me, I have no problem being submissive. Being submissive in our faith doesn't mean the wife is a servant and on her knees and the husband tells her what to do and when to do it. That's abuse. Being submissive just means that if I feel one way and DH feels another way and for some reason, we cannot come up with a resolution, I vowed that I would go along with whatever DH says and with a happy heart.
TTC since September 2012
Look, I admire the strength of your belief. I don't share your beliefs, but that's not the issue here.
To me, it doesn't matter what marriage or taking the man's last name USED to mean- everyone here is aware that women used to be treated as property, right? Given from her father's house to her husband's, with or without her consent, as an object of trade or alliance- but what it means NOW. And what it means NOW (to many, many, many people) is an equal partnership. If it means something different to you, so be it. That's your choice. (One question, though- by focussing on what it USED to mean, the history of the tradition, do you realize what you're saying you approve of, and what's important to you?)
You don't have to defend your beliefs, and we don't have to agree with them. I don't think any amount of debate is going to change minds here. Personally, I value myself as highly as I do my husband; if there was to be an unresolved issue we would continue to discuss it until it WAS resolved. We would likely meet in the middle. My husband is not in charge and neither am I- we work together as a team. I wouldn't have it any other way.
No one was insulting your beliefs- we were stating ours. There was no reason to get defensive.
*jezgirl*
(Quote tree got to long)
I think sometimes thoughts get misconstrued over the internet. By no means were my intentions of stating where the tradition came from was my way of saying that I agree with men treating women as property or anything else in those lines. I really didn't think it would blow up like it did, but your explanation helps me to understand why.
You say that no one was insulting my beliefs but just stating theirs. I didn't see it that way. One can state their opinion without saying mine are load of crap, or take that back to the 50's etc... It's all in the wording. It's the internet and people can say whatever they want so I get it.
I value everyone's beliefs, and because of that, I didn't make other's feel little or dumb because of what they believe in. I felt that some posters were doing that to me and I didn't do that to others so I may have gotten defensive. I apologize.
TTC since September 2012
Ditto. wo of our friendsr ecently got marrieed and they both hypened their Maiden - Married names. And M sees it on facebook as still just their Maiden name. He purposely says Mrs. K or Mrs. H. Not H-K or whatever.
M and I just has this conversation. To me part of marriage is taking on my husband's first name. Now what his mom did is pretty interesting, she took her Maiden name as her Middle name and then her husband's as her last name. Which I like the concept but I think I like my middle name too much to do it.
Either way I agree it's up to the bride to change her name but I think it's foolish not to take your husband to be's name. And the education/career path should have nothing to do with the decision. People will know you for how well you do your job, not by your last name.
Ditto. Some of our friends recently got married and they both hyphened their Maiden - Married names. And M sees it on Facebook as still just their Maiden name. He purposely says Mrs. K or Mrs. H. Not H-K or whatever.
M and I just has this conversation. To me part of marriage is taking on my husband's first name. Now what his mom did is pretty interesting, she took her Maiden name as her Middle name and then her husband's as her last name. Which I like the concept but I think I like my middle name too much to do it.
Either way I agree it's up to the bride to change her name but I think it's foolish not to take your husband to be's name. And the education/career path should have nothing to do with the decision. People will know you for how well you do your job, not by your last name.
If you're going to make a statement, own it. Don't contradict yourself.