Family Matters
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Ignored or rude...
It sounds like you have far more problems than this board can help with. Depression, death, trauma, and resentment are issues which require individual and couple's therapy. They are not fixed by one discussion or day of self reflection.
Isn't Kathy's death extremely traumatic to your wife? It sounds like neither of you is trying to see things from the other's perspective.
Yeah I added that knowing my opinion would be ignored since my opinion is that the neediness is worse then the wife going away so much (and probably a big part of the reason why she does it).
I need a weekend away just after trying to wade through the whining in this post. I think the wife is a saint for putting up with this at all.
I apologize to those I offended with my last response. When I read, "But what do I know", I was trying to figure out what someone who has no idea what siblings are like, and someone whose own husband seems to distance himself from extended family have in common with our situation. I'm sorry.
Is it needy to want to feel welcome when someone invites you to their home and then be treated as if you weren't even there?
Kathy's death while a shock to Karen, she felt detached from Kathy because of the "I love her but I don't like her" feelings within herself, yet she blamed herself for Kathy's death because her parents made Kathy her responsibility at a young age. Their parents never disciplined Kathy. Instead they disciplined Karen for the things Kathy was doing.
This past summer, as things were really breaking down between Karen and me, I wracked my brain trying to figure out why Karen was being so insensitive toward me. One particular morning while getting ready for work, I was thinking, "What is it someone could have done to make Karen turn against me. What is it that was so traumatic? What is it someone did? It's like someone just up and died....."
The proverbial light bulb appeared.
Karen has her parents
Karen has the one sister she was always close to.
Karen has her son.
Karen had and still has anger and resentment issues with Kathy, but first, didn't know it, and second, was aiming at the one person who filled the gap in her immediate family. I filled that gap. I to Karen's subconscious was Kathy. Karen was trying to keep Kathy from hurting anybody any more.
I had to fight back. It was going to be me or Kathy.
How can you say brother/brother relationships are different than sister/sister relationships? Do you have a brother and are you his brother?
Is just simply wanting to feel wanted needy?
OKay, so much to talk about.
First of all, I will say that your wife is being pretty careless. If my husband felt constantly ignored by my family, then yes, I would probably try to do my part to make him feel more included.
That said.
Sir, you have a LOT of issues, and it's good you're getting some therapy now. By your replies, you have no friends and no plans to make new ones, so you depend entirely on your wife for any kind of social interaction. You also have quite the ego whenever you talk about yourself. You paint yourself as this amazing savior to your poor, misguided wife, who you have raised up from the muck and she owes you so much. Stop that right now. You're supposed to be her equal, not her white knight. Then you expect her to do so much for you. You are, in fact, very very hungry for her attention, praise, and coddling. You said yourself you have dealt with depression, you're insecure, shy, etc. You need to stop relying on your wife to fix you, and you need to see yourself for who you really are. While you're not some big bad guy, your attitude is pretty crappy, and your shlt certainly stinks.
What I find kind of appalling is that your wife lost the sister she was put in charge of raising and you can't understand why your wife is clinging so desperately to her remaining sibling, especially since they are so close and you come off as so stifling. You play the victim constantly and can't see past that to consider that, hey, your wife has her own serious issues. It doesn't sound like she had a very loving upbringing, and then she lost one sister. Getting love and affection from the other one would be filling a craving she's wanted filled for so long. And sorry, the love of a husband (especially one that seems to have become socially stunted) is not the same as the love of a sister. I'm extremely close to my sister; if I could visit her frequently I would.
I agree with others that you two have some serious complications when it comes to talking to each other. That said, I think YOU are the main cause of much of your problems, and you're putting too much of the burden on your wife, which is seems, is par the course for you. You're in your 50's you should be able to make your own conversations and have your own friends to see and things to do. If you did, you would probably have an easier time resolving your issues with your wife.
Interesting.
I must let you know I do interact with others. No, I really don't hang out with anybody. But keep in mind I do that by choice. I used to bowl every week. A bad bout of tennis elbow that is slow to heal. I played softball for many years until a torn rotator cuff ended that. I would love to coach girls softball. Too many people crying wolf for me to risk teaching children how to throw, catch and hit a ball.
We do socialize. There is a bar in the neighborhood we like to go to. As much as I enjoy going when we are together, I actually felt uncomfortable going there by myself one time while she was visiting her sister. I know it's weird but it honestly felt like I was cheating on her.
I'm fairly outgoing at work. I'll talk to anybody about just about anything, I'm the same when we go to parties. I will talk to anybody about a wide range of subjects. What's interesting is at times when we go to parties, she is the one complaining about me not paying any attention to her.
Regarding her clinging to the only sister she has, Karen has always been close to her sister, Kim. She would go everywhere with Karen and her boyfriend back some 30+ years ago. Kim is 5-6 years younger. They were always close, so I'm not sure about clinging to her only sister is the right description. She did not grow up in a loving home. If you either of the girls what they remember about life at home, they will say the constant arguing and fighting. Their mother would demand her husband come home from work right away and deal with Kathy causing him to lose a lot of jobs. Karen never remembers seeing her parents kiss. To this day, my FIL calls my MIL, "Mom". That is so wrong!
As far as being her "White Knight". Her words, not mine. She has said many times to myself and to others that I made a huge difference in her life and that she feels she would not be where she is today had we not met. You know, I feel the same way. I would not be where I am today without Karen. Others have commented to her how different I am compared to how I was before we met and meaning it in a good way.
The only time I feel like an outsider is when we are with her family and in particular at her sister's. When I try to get in on a conversation with the girls and for half and hour they talk past me the entire time, then I get up and try to engage a conversation with Chris. Four questions.:
What's new?
What are you watching?
How's the job?
Wanna do anything?
Four questions people will ask to get to know more about somebody. Four answers:
Nothing.
I don't know.
so-so.
Nah.
After sitting there watching channel surfing for about an hour, I go back to the girls. Again I try to become part of the conversation. Try.
Please tell me what you would do when you know you are going the be there until late tomorrow morning, it is mid afternoon, and your first 2 hours there has been like this? Keep in mind it's a 2 1/2 hour drive home. Also keep in mind never going to their house again is not a preferred option.
Does it really matter what I "Do" with people? It seems you're asking me if I go out by myself. No, not really, and neither does Karen except for with her mother or her sister. Is she not doing anything with others because of me? No. It is also her choice.
For a long time, any time I went anywhere, my brother's, my mother's for the weekend, my friend's house of over 20 years, bowling, softball, or anywhere, Karen would always call me when she expected me to get there, then call me to ask me where I was. The conversation usually went like this:
Me- Hey baby!
Karen- Where are you? (Not hello, how are you,, etc..)
Me- I just got here.
Karen- When are you coming home?
Me- I don't know! I just got here!
Karen- Well, call me when you leave.
Me- Why?
Karen- Because.
Me- sigh- Ok. Bye.
Any time I went anywhere! There! Are you happy now people?
We talked, argued, and fought about this. My point was that I felt like she was constantly checking up on me. I never went anywhere without Karen calling. My brother would ask me what her problem was. My mother never said anything. Her facial expressions said it for her. The people at bowling and softball had puzzled reactions too. I felt more like her son instead of her husband. Everything she said to me was as if I was a teenager and had to answer to her. Recently while watching an episode of Law & Order- SVU when the ADA called one of the detectives and the first thing from her mouth was, "Where are you?!" I commented "That's some way to say hello, isn't it?" A moment later I saw that Karen was crying. "Ok, what's wrong?" I asked. She sobbed, "I had no idea how it sounded on the other end. I am so sorry."
Separate schedules does change things. I can also understand how because of separate schedules you could feel stifled to have him around more than he is. We don't have separate schedules, nor do we want to. I never wanted to distance myself from Karen's family. I wanted to belong. We recently had a family meeting with Kim and Chris. They had no idea I wanted to spend time with them. They thought that every time Karen visited without me it was because I didn't like doing family things. Karen's desire to spend as much time as she did with Kim directly affected how they thought about me. Kim told us when she would say to Karen, "Why don't you come down for the weekend?", most of the time the invitation was for both of us. Karen always assumed the invitation was for her alone. I would see them at their home 1-2 times a year. Karen would see them 6-10 times a year or more. When I did visit, it was usually for a birthday party or some other event. Never just to visit.
Things will be different from now on. Karen talked to Kim over the weekend and explained how I felt unwanted whenever I was there. She never realized she and Karen were actually shutting me out. As far as Chris goes, he will sometimes go an entire weekend without saying more than two words to Kim. "That's just the way he is", she said. In my defense, the girls both understood how visiting so infrequently, and Chris being incommunicado every time I was there made me feel like he wanted nothing to do with me.
Now that Kim knows I want to spend time with them, and that I will not take no for an answer, both she and Karen are actually looking forward to doing things with me. Yes, I like going to yard sales. You meet a lot of intesting people, some with common interests.
Karen also now realizes that taking off whenever she wanted and leaving me a list of honey-do expectations while she was having fun was wrong.
I seriously don't see myself as her savior. I'm just a man. I however can not change that Karen feels that way toward me. I only passed along what she has been telling me for years.