August 2006 Weddings
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
"That's not sexist, that's traditional..."
::bangs head against wall::
If I hear one more bride say this on P&E about using Mr. and Mrs. John Doe to address their invitations, I'm going to scream.
If you want to use that wording, that's fine. Just please don't tell me that it can't possibly be sexist because "it's traditional." The two aren't mutually exclusive terms! grrrrrrrrr.....
Sorry to bring the drama here, but I need a breather among sane women for a moment.
Re: "That's not sexist, that's traditional..."
if anything, its probably more likely to be sexist if its traditional.
What's even more annoying is being addressed by your husband's name even after telling someone you aren't changing your name. Grrr. How hard is it to include my name, especially when you knew me before I was married? It's not like you don't know my last name. Sorry, I had to vent. This just happened to me the other day, and it really annoyed me.
Me too! I didn't become my husband's property when we got married - which was "tradition" at one point!
I don't automatically assume traditional = sexist, but then again there's a lot of things I see differently here than most (especially those things that are considered "traditional")...so this doesn't surprise me. There was a time in my life when I would have probably balked, but no longer.
See, this one doesn't bother me in the slightest. I didn't change my name, and I don't love it when people call me Mrs. <hislast>, but technically, that's who I am, according to etiquette -- and I'm a stickler for etiquette. I addressed all of my invitations formally. But proper etiquette for women who didn't change their names is
Ms. <herlast>
Mr. <hislast>
For those who did change their name, Mr. & Mrs. John Doe is correct. This is one where the etiquette/formality matters more to me than the origin of the tradition. I have no idea why.
Actually, according to etiquette you aren't Mrs hislast name unless you changed your name. Its not proper etiquette to call someone a name they aren't.
Old school etiquette, but thats technically the rule.
When my mom and I were talking about etiquette while planning my wedding, she said, "Etiquette is about making people feel comfortable." So if you know someone (even someone who changed her name) feels uncomfortable being called Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast or even being called Mrs. at all, then I think calling them that under the guise of "etiquette" is lame-o. I don't get bothered if somebody mistakenly calls me Mrs. Hislast. But once I tell them that no, my name has not changed, I get annoyed if they continue addressing me by his name. It's just rude. It would be rude for me to insist on calling someone by her maiden name if she changed her name.
Plus, "traditions" can change. It was once tradition to address ALL correspondence to a married woman to Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. We've obviously let that tradition go and only use it when something is addressed to the couple. There's really no good reason that tradition can't change, too.
To clarify, it actually is proper etiquette to call me Mrs.<Hisfirst> <Hislast> -- one should not address me as Mrs <hislast>, but I am either Mrs. <Hisfirst> <Hislast> or Ms. <myfirst> <mylast> in formal correspondence.
Bridey re: It was once tradition to address ALL correspondence to a married woman to Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast
That's how all of my bridal shower invitations went out. I like the formality and following those rules, but that's just me
can you show me where the etiquette gods say one should address someone as Mrs his first his last if they didn't change their names? I grew up in the epicenter of etiquette and had years of etiquette training (which I hated) and I was never taught that. I'm not being snarky, I just have been taught very very differently on that one issue.
If I got a bridal shower invitation sent to just me, addressed to Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast, I'll be honest - I would be PISSED. If the person addressing them knew I didn't change my name, then I would consider not even attending.
I don't know of a single modern etiquette guide that says to address anything to Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast if the wife didn't change her name.
The name thing is really frustrating. If I get upset when people continue to call me by my husband's name, then I'm being "oversensitive," or a "feminazi." But of course, a man is permitted to get upset if someone repeatedly calls him by the wrong name. (I don't mean anybody here, but I've encountered that elsewhere.) It drives me batty. It's my name, dammit, and I feel entitled to be addressed by it.
Per Emily Post:
Addressing a Woman
Maiden name
Ms. Jane Johnson
Miss Jane Johnson*
*usually 'Miss' is for girls under 18
Married, keeping maiden name
Ms. Jane Johnson
Married, uses husband's name socially
Mrs. John Kelly
Mrs. Jane Kelly*
*Nowadays this is acceptable
Ms. Jane Kelly
Separated, not divorced
Mrs. John Kelly
Mrs. Jane Kelly
Ms. Jane Kelly
Divorced
Mrs. Jane Kelly
Ms. Jane Kelly
Ms. Jane Johnson (maiden name)
Widowed
Mrs. John Kelly*
*If you don't know the widow's preference, this is the traditional and preferred form
Mrs. Jane Kelly
Ms. Jane Kelly
Addressing a Couple
Married, she uses her husband's name socially
Mr. and Mrs. John Kelly
NOTE: Traditionally, a man's name preceded a woman's on an envelope adddress, and his first and surname were not separated (Jane and John Kelly). Nowadays, the order of the names?whether his name or hers comes first?does not matter and either way is acceptable. The exception is when one member of the couple 'outranks' the other?the one with the higher rank is always listed first.
Married, she prefers Ms.
Mr. John Kelly and Ms. Jane Kelly
Ms. Jane Kelly and Mr. John Kelly
*Do not link Ms. to the husband's name:
Mr. and Ms.John Kelly is incorrect
Married, informal address
Jane and John Kelly
John and Jane Kelly
Married, she uses maiden name
Mr. John Kelly and Ms. Jane Johnson
Ms. Jane Johnson and Mr. John Kelly
If you can't fit the names on one line:
Mr. John Kelly
and Ms. Jane Johnson
*Note the indent, either name may be used first
Unmarried, living together
Mr. John Kelly
Ms. Jane Johnson
Note: Use two lines, do not indent and do not link the names with 'and'. Either name may be used first.
A woman who outranks her husband:
elected office, military rank
The Honorable Jane Kelly and Mr. John Kelly
If you can't fit both names on one line (note indent):
The Honorable Jane Kelly
and Mr. John Kelly
A woman who outranks her husband:
professional or educational degree
Dr. Jane Kelly and Mr. John Kelly
Both are doctors (PhD or medical) and use the same last name
The Doctors Kelly (omit first names)
Drs. Jane and John Kelly / Drs. John and Jane Kelly
Dr. John Kelly and Dr. Jane Kelly / Dr. Jane Kelly and Dr. John Kelly
Both are doctors (PhD or medical), she uses her maiden name
Dr. Jane Johnson and Dr. John Kelly
Dr. John Kelly and Dr. Jane Johnson
Business
Woman
Ms. is the default form of address, unless you know positively that a woman wishes to be addressed as Mrs.
Professional designations?use only for business
Jane Kelly, CPA
Note: Do not use Ms. or Mr. if using a professional designation.
Socially, drop the professional designation and use Mr., Ms., or Mrs.: Ms. Jane Kelly
Esquire:
Attorneys and some court officials
Jane Kelly, Esquire
Note: If using Esquire, do not use Ms. or Mr.
In conversation or socially, 'Esquire' is not used; use Mr. or Ms.: Ms. Jane Kelly
Attorney at Law
Ms. Jane Kelly
Attorney at Law
This is an alternative to 'Esquire' for attorneys. Use Mr. or Ms. and use two lines with no indent
^Top^
this is complicated!
Did you not see this?
That's a perfectly acceptable option. If you don't want to use it, or think a friend would be offended, that's fine, but it's not an incorrect option.
You simply said you never took his name. You didn't say you took it socially. Thats a form of taking his name, just not legally. Thats different. OF COURSE if someone took their husbands name socially you would address it that way in a social situations. the previos poster who said they were offended by being addressed that way have NOT taken it socially but you said that etiquette dictates they be refered by Mrs hisfirst hislast which is not true.
my read shelf:
my read shelf:
Irish, let's just agree to disagree on this one. I didn't take my husband's name in any form, but proper etiquette -- not etiquette that has evolved in the last 20 years, but formal etiquette -- does dictate that Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast is correct.
Perhaps our "epicenters of etiquette" differ on this one.
teehee.
I put Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst and Herfirst Theirlast if they share the same name and Mr. Hisfirst Hislast and Ms. Herfirst Herlast if they don't (in alphabetical order if I knew them equally as well or whomever was the main guest first if it was a friend + spouse situation).
I made up my own rules, basically, but had fun addressing a judge I've known my whole life as 'The Honorable' as well as my friends parents (MD + PhD) as Doctor and Dr. The difficulties came from my MIL initially not giving us any of the women's names and then misspelling a number of them once she did. Ah well; at least my half of the list was correct.
I would be VERY annoyed if someone referred to me as Mrs. John Doe (except sub my husband's name). I don't care what the books say. If something pisses me off, then it is not proper etiquette for you to refer to me in that way. When I receive invitations addressed that way, I make a point to fill out the RSVP card with my proper name ("Ms. Gtown MaidenName").
Also, some of my ILs have decided to ignore the fact that I didn't change my name. When mr. gtown mentioned this to MIL, her response was "well, she's supposed to change her name." Um, no.
Ugh, that sucks! I have a friend whose MIL insists on calling her by her husband's last name. Thank goodness my ILs have never said anything to me.
It's just rude to call somebody by a name other her expressed preference. Heck, I have a friend whose wife goes by a nickname (think Katie). She hates her full name with the fire of a thousand suns and gave me the stink-eye when I asked her if her given name was Katherine. She was listed as Katie on the wedding invitation. I was not going to put formality above her expressed wishes.
I've asked you for a source and you didn't 'respond. What is your epicenter? Emily post even says that someone who hasn't taken her husbands name socially shouldn't be addressed like that. So who do you follow?
His friends all call us that