UO Thursday

amandaf6383

inyouruterus said:

Perhaps I missed it....has anyone here told Brij she's white yet? BEING WHITE IS SO AWESOME.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd she's back!

Apollo11235

ystaalenburg said:

Apollo11235 said:

brij2006 said:

 Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond?  Yes. 

But they often don't.

Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to?  No.

They're not. Those are valid reasons for firing someone.

The issue here is that we're not really talking about either of these groups of people. We're talking about people who are spending 40 hours a week reliably, satisfactorily doing jobs their employers value enough to create and maintain, and aren't being paid enough to support themselves.

Sorry @Apollo11235, but I've gotta call you out on this.  You can't say that all employers don't do that.  I'm a business owner and I strongly believe in compensating my employees for their good work.  One of the guys I hired in August has received three 10% raises since he's been here.   Now, there's another employee of mine that is doing the bare minimum so he hasn't gotten a raise and is on his way out the door if he doesn't take this last warning he just received to heart.

Also, I have to admit that my employees probably work harder than I do, but you know what?  I started this company over 10 years ago, worked my ass off barely making enough to pay my bills, had to move in with my parents and almost had to close the company 3 separate times.  So, yeah, sorry but I'm going to pay myself for all my hard work.

I'm confused. Did I say anywhere that no employers give good workers raises? My threshold for "often" in this case is fairly low since the stakes are so high for those affected. Thanks for being one of many good employers, though.

inyouruterus

No, Apollo, you didnt. She had something tk get off her chest and seized the opportunity. Her response had about 0% to do with what you said.

poppies717

I probably shouldn't get involved because I'm not in a good place right now, but good Lord. What the actual fuck?

People actually believe that people who work in minimum wage jobs deserve crap pay and not being able to afford to provide for their family? You mean the bus driver who called me today in tears, asking for a grant of $10 so her kid can go to the end of year dance with his friends, that woman who puts up with screaming kids on a bus...she deserves to make minimum wage? Are you kidding?

I can't even begin to understand this. Explain it to me

inyouruterus

poppies717 said:

I probably shouldn't get involved because I'm not in a good place right now, but good Lord. What the actual fuck?

People actually believe that people who work in minimum wage jobs deserve crap pay and not being able to afford to provide for their family? You mean the bus driver who called me today in tears, asking for a grant of $10 so her kid can go to the end of year dance with his friends, that woman who puts up with screaming kids on a bus...she deserves to make minimum wage? Are you kidding?

I can't even begin to understand this. Explain it to me

I think it goes like this:

She doesn't want better because she isn't motivated to earn a living when she can borrow $10 because asking to borrow money is a huge morale booster and makes you feel awesome.

And dances are frivolous and should be canceled because dancin' is for the devil!

BruinsBabe33

If she was a good driver she wouldn't be in that position. She would get a raise.

amandaf6383

inyouruterus said:

I probably shouldn't get involved because I'm not in a good place right now, but good Lord. What the actual fuck? People actually believe that people who work in minimum wage jobs deserve crap pay and not being able to afford to provide for their family? You mean the bus driver who called me today in tears, asking for a grant of $10 so her kid can go to the end of year dance with his friends, that woman who puts up with screaming kids on a bus...she deserves to make minimum wage? Are you kidding? I can't even begin to understand this. Explain it to me

I think it goes like this: She doesn't want better because she isn't motivated to earn a living when she can borrow $10 because asking to borrow money is a huge morale booster and makes you feel awesome. And dances are frivolous and should be canceled because dancin' is for the devil!

No dances?!?!

amandaf6383

All I wanna do is DANCE!

BruinsBabe33

*help me I'm poor gif*

Aimothy

BruinsBabe33 said:

*help me I'm poor gif*

*try harder gif*

poppies717

Well, crap. I guess I'll call her back and tell her wear to get some bootstraps to pull herself up with. Hope they're cheaper than $10!

And that her kid can't go to the special dance. We can't have *looks around and whispers* poor (!!!!) kids there! Only the wealthy kids!

BruinsBabe33

Aimothy said:

BruinsBabe33 said:

*help me I'm poor gif*

*try harder gif*

Rewd

nfp147

brij2006 said:

I know that my views are most definitely different than many on this board.  We all live in different parts, and predominantly urban areas.  However, I'm from the other side where the cost of living is much lower and a single person can make it on minimum wage (not easily but can).  

Many people put themselves in these situations (not saying all), and have made the choices to work a minimum wage job without being able to make ends meet.  Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond?  Yes. Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to?  No.

I call bullshit.  I grew up in a very small town in a VERY rural area.  I don't assume that everyone working for minimum wage is lazy, nor do I think they deserve to be earning minimum wage.

Living in a rural area is no excuse.

amandaf6383

nfp147 said:

brij2006 said:

I know that my views are most definitely different than many on this board.  We all live in different parts, and predominantly urban areas.  However, I'm from the other side where the cost of living is much lower and a single person can make it on minimum wage (not easily but can).  

Many people put themselves in these situations (not saying all), and have made the choices to work a minimum wage job without being able to make ends meet.  Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond?  Yes. Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to?  No.

I call bullshit.  I grew up in a very small town in a VERY rural area.  I don't assume that everyone working for minimum wage is lazy, nor do I think they deserve to be earning minimum wage.

Living in a rural area is no excuse.

Yeah, I agree. MA is generally HCOL in general but I grew up in a really small town. I graduated with 51 kids. People weren't (generally) ignorant.

mrshall1027

Apollo11235 said:

ystaalenburg said:

Apollo11235 said:

brij2006 said:

 Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond?  Yes. 

But they often don't.

Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to?  No.

They're not. Those are valid reasons for firing someone.

The issue here is that we're not really talking about either of these groups of people. We're talking about people who are spending 40 hours a week reliably, satisfactorily doing jobs their employers value enough to create and maintain, and aren't being paid enough to support themselves.

Sorry @Apollo11235, but I've gotta call you out on this.  You can't say that all employers don't do that.  I'm a business owner and I strongly believe in compensating my employees for their good work.  One of the guys I hired in August has received three 10% raises since he's been here.   Now, there's another employee of mine that is doing the bare minimum so he hasn't gotten a raise and is on his way out the door if he doesn't take this last warning he just received to heart.

Also, I have to admit that my employees probably work harder than I do, but you know what?  I started this company over 10 years ago, worked my ass off barely making enough to pay my bills, had to move in with my parents and almost had to close the company 3 separate times.  So, yeah, sorry but I'm going to pay myself for all my hard work.

I'm confused. Did I say anywhere that no employers give good workers raises? My threshold for "often" in this case is fairly low since the stakes are so high for those affected. Thanks for being one of many good employers, though.

That's my fault.  I quickly read over the post and didn't catch the word "often".  It wouldn't have been the first time I've heard someone say something negative about employers, so I responded too quickly.

lilliesandvino

First of all, Brij, it's clear from your response that my comment went directly over your head.

Second, @inyouruterus please stick around and don't leave us again!

inyouruterus

oh lawd, I cant even with this shit, lilies!

lilliesandvino

inyouruterus said:

oh lawd, I cant even with this shit, lilies!

My bleeding, pinko heart is aching.

FutureMrsWright2012

brij2006 said:

FutureMrsWright2012 said:

So, out of curiosity... Do you also think that legislation should not be enacted to ensure equal pay for women compared to their male counterparts?

I do feel that the pay should be equal, but based on performance.  If a man does less work than a woman, then he's getting paid less based on his performance not his sex.  

Agreed... But you do realize that there is ample research that shows women do not make the same amount as men working in the same position. Do you know the reason for this? Because many (not all) big employers pay as little as they can get away with, whether it's because it's a woman doing the job or a low-skilled worker. The only way this will change is if their hand is forced with legislation. Ultimately, most businesses only care about their bottom line, and will take advantage of loop holes and corporate welfare every chance they get, even if this means their employees require welfare themselves. They've had this long to pay fairly, it's not happening...

MH1006

Brij reminds me of Gwenyth Paltrow.

saralynn7

I won't comment on raising the minimum wage because I see the pros and cons and really just want to see the economy turn around. I will pose a question regarding assistance programs though. Because I work with many people that earn minimum wage paying jobs or who have other circumstances going on the majority are on some type of assistance. They wouldn't be able to make it without that. I absolutely understand and see around 50% of those people working their ass off to improve things. For those people I'd like to see their situation improve. However the other half tell me about how they sell their food stamps to get a new laptop or the newest cell phone or they went out all weekend. Then I have people asking me to fill out forms saying they can't work and need money when I've met them once. I call bullshit on that and think something needs to be done to hold those abusing the system accountable. I haven't come up with a great idea for this yet and am curious if anyone has any brilliant ideas.

LuckyAngel07

saralynn7 said:

I won't comment on raising the minimum wage because I see the pros and cons and really just want to see the economy turn around. I will pose a question regarding assistance programs though. Because I work with many people that earn minimum wage paying jobs or who have other circumstances going on the majority are on some type of assistance. They wouldn't be able to make it without that. I absolutely understand and see around 50% of those people working their ass off to improve things. For those people I'd like to see their situation improve. However the other half tell me about how they sell their food stamps to get a new laptop or the newest cell phone or they went out all weekend. Then I have people asking me to fill out forms saying they can't work and need money when I've met them once. I call bullshit on that and think something needs to be done to hold those abusing the system accountable. I haven't come up with a great idea for this yet and am curious if anyone has any brilliant ideas.

I've got zero brilliant ideas for those abusing the system. It sucks that they're out there making the hard workers look bad right along with them. 

DH just told me last night his younger brother applied for welfare. Because he's been out of college for a year and has been unable to get any sort of job in his chosen profession with his degree (criminal justice; he wants to get into police and eventually FBI). So he's working (finally FT) in a liquor store, and apparently his income can't cover all his bills (he's got a high insurance premium and type 1 diabetes, so I'm sure he's got all sorts of extra expenses for his supplies). He lives at home with my ILs, drives a used car (but has car payments, because he couldn't afford it outright), and doesn't have a snazzy state-of-the-art smartphone. And he's stuck applying for welfare. 

Something is definitely broken in our economy.

saralynn7

Your BIL is one that I think absolutely can benefit from the programs and is why I'm not for getting rid of them completely. I also see a much higher percentage of this than is probably the norm to to my field of work so I'd assume I have a slightly unfair bias.

lilliesandvino

I'd so much rather allow ten people to "abuse" the system than for it to be so strict that even one person can't get the help they need.

inyouruterus

I wish people would read The Myth of the Welfare Queen.

Also, some other things people might try:

1. Not applying anecdotal stories to the majority.
2. #1 over and fucking over again.

mseale

I don't understand why no one has brought up the fact that there IS a difference in the cost of living, so minimum wages should be legislated by more local governments, be it state or county. 

The federal government is to far removed to place sweeping legislation across the whole country.