Trouble in Paradise
bbydede
member
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His friends are really disrespectful
There is one group of friends he has had for about 10 years and they are all really close. We had been dating a few months and one of the couples started talking bad about a mutual friend- their best friend- and myself and my boyfriend (now husband) intervened. Things got a little heated when I told them to call her and apologize, they got in my face...it was pretty scary. They left town, went back home and told everyone I blew up on them for no reason, I was a nasty Btch, etc etc. They even trash talked me to my old co-workers. Everyone who knew them hated me and it became really awkward. My guy would go back home and party with them and lie to me about it. Became a series of endless fighting with the lies and the paranoia I felt every time apart. One of them told him to cheat on me, others said break up with her. There were nasty words put on facebook under my photos, lots of low class behavior I did not ask for. I finally moved out of state and broke up with him. After a few months he got really depressed and moved to be with me. But he would still go back home every few months and hang out with these people.
After 3 years of crap he finally made 2 of them call me and apologize and I got cursed out after I answered the phone. So much for an apology call. That was a year ago. All this time it really hurt to the core that he was hanging out with them and having beers like it was no big deal. I can't tell you how depressed I would get about this situation, our only problem. The other friends we had away from this group were really nice to me.
We got married one month ago and I'm supposed to move back to the city where all these people live because his house is there. Now they are posting nice things on facebook and trying to jump on the bandwagon but it just has been too much for me. I get really panicky just thinking about having them around him or myself. I don't want these people in my life. They were really horrible to me and I am uncomfortable and stressed around them. I have already given him ultimatums and they don't work. "Me or them" just means he will try to keep me in the dark and have both me and the group secretly.
What should I do? Quit my job and move to this place where he is sure to start hanging out with these horrible people full time again and start acting rude like them again? I don't believe anyone should have a friend that disrespects their SO. If my friends did that to him, all HELL would break loose!!!!
So hard to lose the man I love twice. What else can I do???? Thanks !!!
After 3 years of crap he finally made 2 of them call me and apologize and I got cursed out after I answered the phone. So much for an apology call. That was a year ago. All this time it really hurt to the core that he was hanging out with them and having beers like it was no big deal. I can't tell you how depressed I would get about this situation, our only problem. The other friends we had away from this group were really nice to me.
We got married one month ago and I'm supposed to move back to the city where all these people live because his house is there. Now they are posting nice things on facebook and trying to jump on the bandwagon but it just has been too much for me. I get really panicky just thinking about having them around him or myself. I don't want these people in my life. They were really horrible to me and I am uncomfortable and stressed around them. I have already given him ultimatums and they don't work. "Me or them" just means he will try to keep me in the dark and have both me and the group secretly.
What should I do? Quit my job and move to this place where he is sure to start hanging out with these horrible people full time again and start acting rude like them again? I don't believe anyone should have a friend that disrespects their SO. If my friends did that to him, all HELL would break loose!!!!
So hard to lose the man I love twice. What else can I do???? Thanks !!!
Re: His friends are really disrespectful
And maybe it's just me but it felt too aggressive for you to tell them to call the absent mutual friend to apologize for trash talking about her when she wasn't around. It should've been clear these people were backstabbing jerks that weren't good friends to have, but I would've distanced myself instead of wading further in the mud with them.
The first time you threw down an ultimatum, the fact that you are STILL with him - he fully knows that your ultimatums mean jack shit. He's learned that he can keep these friends because you won't ever really leave.
I'm floored that this has been going on for THREE years and you still married him and now, NOW, it's suddenly a real issue where you 'don't know what to do'.
Oy.
If you think me asking them to call her and apologize for the shit talking was aggressive, you should have seen the girl chest bumping me in my face like she was going to throw down. Yes, we were 25 at the time but it was still innappropriate. They should have realized that they were wrong instead of bowing up to me and asking who the F I thought I was etc etc. Can you imagine my husband wants me to be friends with these people now? He is ULTRA forgiving- just wants to forget everything and go have beers with everyone and I am very sensitive. Can't imagine being comfortable after all this crap we went through with them.
I hate it when people all of a sudden do a 180 after you get married like they were all for the relationship the whole time. Seems so fake to me. I am the same person, just with a ring on now. Trying to separate two people that love each other is horrible. No worse crime IMO.
No one should have to suffer the abuse you've endured at the hands of his "friends". He has been dishonest and disrespectful by sneeking around to see them behind your back.
DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT QUIT YOUR JOB.
You will continue to be hurt unless YOU do something about it. I would also highly encourage you to seek therapy, there must be a reason you are willing to put up with the things that you have been.
You have a choice here. You can change your life. This isn't a man who truly loves you, who is truly committed to you. If he were, he'd have dropped these "friends".
The post doesn't describe how much we love each other and how great things are when he isn't visiting his rude friends, which is not very often but yes it still hurts and it's still wrong. I could tell you stories about how he started crying when I walked down the aisle or how many "you need to apologize to my partner this is hurting us" conversations he's had with these people, so he's not a complete douchebag that my frusteration in the OP let on with the rough situation I described. He is just a lover and not a fighter.
In today's society it seems when you hit a bump in the road people immediately divorce, only to look back years later and wish they had worked harder to fix things with that first spouse. I don't want to be with any other partner, he says the same and I know he means it. We've tried a few counseling sessions and he has tried cutting them off several times over the years but he always ends up getting a nice message from the friends or running into them and getting back in touch. They always apologize to HIM (which is easy) and say they wish the best for us and he melts like butter and tries to convince me to be friends with them.
The problem is that his heart is too big to leave people out, he's just not a person to hold grudges or cut people off. It's not like he is intentionally trying to hurt me. I am very sensitive and I tend to cut people off very easily when they hurt me. I have tried to wrap my mind around having these people in my life just to make peace and have a good marriage but just haven't ever reached that point yet. I'm sure they have grown up a lot in the last year or two but I am very selective with my friendships and just can't find the desire to have them around myself or my husband. I am happy for him when he has outings with guys who are nice to me, its just the one group that makes me nervous and freaked out.
Anyways, yes... I have looked at both anullment and divorce documents already and had a chat with him about signing these in lieu of a worse breakup down the road and he wants to work it out like usual. I have deleted my facebook account completely to clear my head and changed my name back to maiden name and am being pretty hardcore with him about resolving this for good before the move. Not sure if there is a happy medium we can reach or if the only answer for this situation is 1) divorce 2) I shut my mouth and act ladylike and let these people into our lives since they are acting nice 3) he cuts them off and I have to snoop and monitor my whole life worrying if he's lying again.... they will know why he can't hang out and the hatred will continue.....
thanks again for the concern
I cannot understand why you are with a guy who does not care how you are treated. How weak can you get --- he never went to bat for you and told this bunch of shitheads off and then end contact with them for good.
A gold dick indeed. is it also encrusted with diamonds and rubies, too?
Look: yo0u can either put up with this mess -- I do not advise it -- or demand he end contact with these creeps and that you and he get counseling -- he will refuse to do both --- or you can decide what it is you want, for a change, and then head into that direction.
There is no such thing as "have to." Even if he owned the home, he could sell it or rent it. You and he do not have to move back into that house/home or stay anywhere in that town, or nearby there, for that matter.
Why isn't he putting you first?
Ask yourself that.
You've LEFT HIM already. You've shown him how serious this is to you. But yet - he keeps crawling back to these people. REALLY????
You're trying to make him out to be a good guy w/ a big heart, but come on - he sounds spineless and he DOESN'T put you first. Instead, he lies to you and sneaks around behind your back.
If he hasn't gone to counseling for himself, maybe he should. He needs to figure out why he puts assholes first before his wife. Again- these people are NOT good friends. That's what he needs to realize.
I think you're really close when you outline your three options, but I do see minor variations in what is available to you. I think you options could be:
I know it can be very, very difficult to offer forgiveness to people who don't deserve it, and never asked for it. However, holding on to this anger towards them is not healthy. I'm not saying that you need to become their friends, but at the very least, you need to let go of your hurt and your bitterness. Seek individual counseling if you need help with it. Since you've been angry for so long, it may take awhile before you're able to let it go, but actively work to replace your hurt feelings with positive thoughts. Focus on friends that you do like, and don't allow yourself to wallow in your insecurities.
I hate to break it to you, but this is all something that should have been resolved before you married him, especially because you still have concrete ties to the town. I love the fact that you want to "beat the odds" and work through the tough times in your marriage. However, you can't rely on just your husband to fix his (spineless) problem. It will require you to actively work on forgiving and moving past events that happened years ago, and letting go of insecurities created by bad-mouthing "friends."
This happened when you were dating a few months -- and that is when you should have ended the relationship and found a guy whose friend rave about how wonderful you are and what a great match you are for their friend!
This guy isn't ready for a commitment and he never was.
Put yourself first. Please bear that in mind and do what is right for yourself.
Please listen to yourself talk and wow, what a conditional is added to this statement you've made:
The post doesn't describe how much we love each other and how great things are when he isn't visiting his rude friends, which is not very often
How great things are when he isn't with them?
Are you willing to live the next 50 years or so of your life this way, under a sword of Damocles?
Why do you want to do this to yourself?
These people are not "rude." Rude is somebody who takes your parking space at the mall on Christmas Eve or somebody who insults the sports team you're in favor of. These so called "friends" of his are hateful and poison.
He might have had those conversations but wow, come on --- your partner and your spouse comes first. What hurts you is supposed to hurt him. And he hasn't done anything about this: he needed to lose those pigs like the proverbial bad habit. He never did so and that is what is telling.
He is not a "lover." He's a no character coward.
Put yourself first. Do what is right for YOU and if that means divorcing this creep, do it.
Do not usurp your business for him. It takes a good long while to get a business off the ground and if you move for his sorry ass, you will literally be starting over in your business; the market may not be good where "his home" is and you will be taking an enormous chance...for him.
ETA: You are m ost fortunate to have a good business up and running.
The economy is still down the toilet and nobody is buying anything unnecessary.
Don't uproot a well running business for him. This is something that is yours and yours alone.
Ha.
What chances has he taken for you????
You are only married a month. Get this sham of a marriage annulled -- he has been "forsaking all others" and has done so starting with when he put his friends before you.
Big, really?
How come that bigness and enormity of it doesn't seem to have room for you and how YOU feel about all of this???
This is a sham of a marriage -- and as any of us will tell you, marrying somebody who has a problem prior to the wedding will make the problem permanent in your life once the legal I Dos are said.
THis bullshit has been going on for 5 years. FIVE YEARS?! And you've not scraped up the guts at any time to tell these horrible pigs where to go and what they can do when they get there???
His friends are a small part of the picture. The big story now in all of this: that creep you married. He is the greater part of the entire equation and problem. He needed to dump these assholes when you started to be the brunt of their abuse -- and like I said, even better still:
You needed to find a new boyfriend once you found out what a wimp he was.
Dumped him and found a guy with an actual spine and backbone.
So during the 2.5 years it was on the market he knew I would never move back- and then my weekday job got tough and he saw an out. With us paying rent here, and still paying insurance and taxes on the house he was spending too much. I agree it is a smart move for him, but my 2 incomes will be lost and I will have to re-start my small business there. However, I will now have a free studio and no housing costs or utility bills. So, all my earnings I will get to keep. He has also promised to help pay for my advertising and studio furniture. But, the economy is much worse there. My friends in the wedding business there from college say that they are doing well and they can give me some of their extra clients when they are over booked. That is a good start. People still need wedding vendors in a mediocre economy.
And then we have the issue of his friends. Most of them are an hour away from the house, one is 10 minutes away but he is such an alcoholic loser I doubt my H would mess with him anymore. That guy went off the deep end. (Karma!!!) I told my H that in order to move I would need an absolute promise that the bad friends would not be allowed near the house, he agreed 100%. We also agreed I would not be brought near them in public and he gave the impression that he would not be hanging around them too much. This all seemed semi okay with me until last week when I found out he had hung out with them and tried to hide it from me when I asked who he went to watch the game with- I consider that lying basically. That's when I got mad. Like, you don't even have the balls to tell me the truth? One month after our wedding and I already get another lie?
If you're going to stand up for them and tell me they've changed and they are really good people at heart, STAND UP THEN! Don't change the subject on me and say some other names and omit the ones that will piss me off. I actually had to ask him if the two bad people were there and he said Yes. Pissed me off he didn't admit that in the first place. Can't touch woman's intuition.
1) I move there, focus on free living and studio opportunity.... buck up and calm down (easier said than done) during the few times a year he would actually be driving to see them an hour away. (He would be busy with me and nice friends enough to keep him entertained to where I don't think he would want to go see them that often, esp leaving me alone at home and chance pissing me off) 2) the bad friends are cut off completely 3) divorce
Ive been trying to attain peace and forgiveness towards these ppl for 5 years now, even prayed for it. I never pray. the most experienced counselor we saw said she understood every feeling I had and that I might never feel comfortable towards these people and it was okay. And my partner had to understand and respect that.
just explaining the move thing for those that asked
You are spiritual? See your clergyperson -- priest, minister, rabbi, imam, high priest/high priestess or whatever that person is called -- and you discuss this mess of your H with that person.
I am 100% certain he will tell you that your H is not living up to his obligation to you as a husband. Your H's quest -- and this was his quest the second you and he became an item --- is to make sure you come first and you are happy and satisfied. Just as your quest is to do the same for him.
Any priest, pastor, minister and et cetera worth his or her salt will tell you that he is "forsaking all others" ahd he's blown your marriage vows to hades.
God also helps those who helps themselves.
And God has a way of showing you loud and clear that something is NOT only for you, but harmful and rotten.
You are also married to a feet of clay LIAR.
And he is pacifying you and is babying you. Promised not to bring you around them in public? Sis, how much more of this are you going to take???
I don't see any outlet here or any solution. He can drop these skanks faster than the proverbial bad habit but the fact remains he is flawed. that cannot be fixed; he has caused irreparable damage to you and your relationship with him.
I suggest you do what is right for you and put yourself first. If you continue to stay with him, I guarantee you that your self worth will be erodedto the point where there is none and you will not be able to trust anyone as a result.
Plus there is already a rift between you and him, thanks to his lack of character.
As a pp pointed out your H is not normal and another man would have never stood for the behavior of these"friends" --- I will go that PP one better and say that a normal man would not have friends like the ones your H has.
I suggest an annulment. This is not a divorce; the marriage will be struck from the public records and your marital status will be "never married." It will be as if the wedding never took place....and as well it should be.
I'd lay flaming skid marks if I were you, as you make your getaway from this jerk. He ain't worth a plug nickel.
You've had this discussion multiple times, and he has lied to you. What was his response? You said that he doesn't consider it lying, but was that conversation ever resolved?
Hers was a cultural problem --- she was American through and through and her husband and his family were Mexicans --- but the problem was the same: those people hated her and made it well known eveyr chance they got and her H would not go to bat for her, not ever.
She duked it out with them for a couple years. I believe we warned her not to marry him because he was such a pushover and would not have her back but she did anyway.
If I recall correctly, she was getting a divorce the last we heard.
OP: Your problem is the same. I wouldn't waste one more second with somebody who lies, who is not trustable, has zero character and who isn't a man.
There is no 2 ways about it: your spouse comes first. He doesn't get this or he refuses to get this. Whydo you need him at all? What has he really done for YOU --- and I don't mean provide you with a free studio/company brick and mortar store..
I was so happy to have him back and hear he wanted to change his life- I thought that meant without the bad people. He had driven all night and said when the sun rose over the bridge he vowed to change his life and be with me. Seemed he had gotten a big taste of them and was sick of it. I thought he had seen their true colors and our problems were solved. And then I was hoping what everyone said was true and he would grow out of those friends as we aged. Apparently, not so.
I look back on the situation with his friends and I see an argument that happened and could have stopped as an argument. We could all have gotten over it and we were all at fault. I should have let my boyfriend do the talking and then ignored them until they left town. Being 24, I made a mistake and I stepped in with some attitude.
But the problem for me wasn't the argument, but all the shit talking for the next 5 years, the cursing on apology calls, the name calling and trying to separate me from the man I loved. He mismanaged the situation horribly. Had he cut them off early on, they would have been chastised. They would have felt bad and not been able to talk shit about me as much. They would have been shown how much he loved me and how great I was by him sticking by my side. I would have felt that I was respected and loved and it would have given me courage that my man had stood up for me and for US.
Because it was mismanaged I am left embarrassed, hated, with a lower self esteem, and without a proper apology. There is no need to make amends in their mind because they have all they want- they get to hang out with HIM (without me) a few times a year and then say whatever they want about me when he's not around. They even told my old co-worker that my H was on their side the whole time and not mine. That's how much balls they had with the shit talking. Everyone there thinks I'm some nasty, crazy bitch that yells at people out of the blue. It really sucks for me that my H did not handle this situation properly.
If this situation happened nowadays, I have no doubt he would step up. He does not take shit from anyone, it's just this situation with his friends that he wants me to get over. He just wants to be able to hang out with them once in a while and not hear from me about it. I feel like a bitch sometimes but then I also feel that I have had a right to ask him to cut them off after all this. Its just so stressful on me to hear he is with them.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/father-says-goodbye-to-son-with-a-gut-wrenching-performance-190630995.html
And I'm crying for this man who just lost his whole family.... and I think wow, my situation is so small and meaningless here compared to theirs. Can't I just get over my hatred for these people and have a good marriage with this man who loves me? And I try and I try and it just won't come. It does help that they have finally started to say nice things. Maybe if he would just take a break from the lies and hanging out with them I could get some space from the situation and find some peace with it. I really don't want a divorce over something that seems so small compared to the problems of the world.
There is nothing wonderful about him. Nothing to love.
And what a pussy --- he cries, really, and pulls this sad eyed puppy shit?
You are sort of like an alcoholic that drinks and drinks and drinks...and only stops when he gets a rock bottom moment.
A rock bottom moment is when you know a problem has come to the breaking point: you do something about it for the real, with no hesitation.
I don't know what your rock bottom moment is going to be.
Nor do I know if you will ever have one.
In the meanwhile, the rift between the 2 of you is going to keep widening. He's going to keep these pigs as friends and keep putting them first before his wife and you're going to let him call the shots on this entire mess.
Melts your heart to see how pained he is?
What about how pained you are? When's he planning on getting with the program and dumping these rotten people once and for all???
I will guess -- and I believe my guess is right --- that you will continue to permit things to be the way they are. You won't annul this marriage.
And each and every one of those rotters was at your wedding.
And you permitted it.
Am I right?
Your only alternative is going to be to annul the marriage. Saying "them or me" is goign to be worthless. He can say "okay, I choose you" and still keep in contact with them. God knows there is email, skype, contacting them via a phone you know nothing of or any one of a method of electronic means.
I suggest you pack your things when he is gone for the day and leave. Go and leave no forwarding address. Go home to your parents, go to a friend's home -- go anywhere but stay with him --- and file for an annulment when you are at your destination.
Your next step is to cut him off completely. No forwarding address. he will have it, though, when you file for an annulment but there is no way on our Maker's green earth you will have to contact him or have contact with him. You need not have any contact with him anymore. And if he writes to you at that address or dares to show up, you call the police. I'm not shitting around: call a cop.
You and he have no kids, no shared assets, nothing that needs to be overseen by an attorney so you can DIY when it comes to the annulment, Go to the county bar office in the town where you will be living and ask them how to do a DIY annulment.
DIY but get an attorney's opinion about this mess. A consultation with an attorney is usually free.
The grounds for annulment is fraud: fraud inasmuch as that he cannot and will not be a husband.
As a very very long shot, it may very well be possible your H has a mental illness or a personality disorder or some other emotional problem -- his behavior is not normal or typical. Either that or he is vastly immature. Something is very wrong with him --- and I suggest you cut bait and leave him.
He is not for you, to put it simply and plainly and politely.
I fail to see what this has to do with anything.