Republican debates tonight

vlagrl29

I just think it wastes money.  If a company tests it's employees for drugs it comes out of the companies pocket right?  I'm assuming if a welfare recipient gets drug tested it comes out of the govt money and we all know how well they operate considering our national debt.

hoffse

emily1004 said:

You're forgiven. I know the 4th Amendment is tricky. There are, give or take, 50 different parts to it. I used to work for a Consumer Rights attorney. I've sat in rooms with the ACLU, countless number of times. (Sometimes excruciating, sometimes amazingly mind-blowing).

Of course you can argue either way, you're a lawyer. You're trained and paid to do that.  My whole point was stated above, about no reason other than: They're on welfare, is not (arguably) a good enough excuse, for a drug test. 

I'm not sure why people feel so strongly about it. Drug testing welfare recipients has save no money. However, when they legalized TCH it in Colorado and Washington, revenue went up, crime went down and drug cartels started to suffer.  I understand people don't want to pay for someone elses drugs, but that argument could be used for: I don't have kids, why do I have to pay for public schools, or I don't have a car, why should I have to pay for fixing the roads. You can't pick and choose what taxes you want pay. 

(I had spend my evening with my in-laws. I need to smoke a dub. I'm not going to assume, but being that you're an attorney, I'm surprised you don't partake in it yourself. That's why they don't drug test at my office, if they did 75% of the lawyers and staff would fail).

Thank you.

I feel you on the last point.  I've actually never smoked anything in my life, but I'm probably in the minority at my office.  It's one of those things I just never wanted to start, because I wasn't sure where it would take me.  In think in our office alcohol is a bigger problem.  We have a bar in our office with free everything.

I try really hard not to drink when I've had a rough day, but I made an exception last night.  I just sat in my office and cried for hours yesterday after telling that client their worst case scenario was prison.  I suppose I'll get desensitized to it eventually, but I'm not there yet.  The stupid thing is we have a really good chance of getting them out of it, but I still lost it.  I guess because there are no guarantees, and it was over something really stupid they literally didn't even realize was criminal.  

Anyway, thanks for giving me a pass.  I promise I wasn't reacting to you, I was reacting to a monumentally shitty day, and I took it out on you.  I should have known better than to be on the internet while feeling that upset.

emily1004

@hoffse

Just to be clear, I'm not a pothead. I've only smoked it once or twice in my life. I usually take it in a form of a cookie or gummy bear. And, I only do it about once every few months, after an extremely stressful day or week. I've never touched anything other than alcohol, which you are right, is way worst. But, I love a good bottle of wine or a great craft beer.

We all have bad days. Working for a law firm can be extremely stressful. I'm not saying become a robot, but you have to separate yourself from the emotional aspect..... Which is mostly all but impossible.

I reacted fast too, this board is suppose to be an escape and a safe place for the "airing of the grievances" etc. We all need to respect each others opinions, even when we disagree. That used to not be the case here prior to the mass exodus.

MommyLiberty5013

emily1004 said:

@hoffse

Just to be clear, I'm not a pothead. I've only smoked it once or twice in my life. I usually take it in a form of a cookie or gummy bear. And, I only do it about once every few months, after an extremely stressful day or week. I've never touched anything other than alcohol, which you are right, is way worst. But, I love a good bottle of wine or a great craft beer.

We all have bad days. Working for a law firm can be extremely stressful. I'm not saying become a robot, but you have to separate yourself from the emotional aspect..... Which is mostly all but impossible.

I reacted fast too, this board is suppose to be an escape and a safe place for the "airing of the grievances" etc. We all need to respect each others opinions, even when we disagree. That used to not be the case here prior to the mass exodus.

I really love that this whole thing happened. Somehow it makes me feel better about our society. Maybe only here, do I feel like we can actually have a kind conversation, everywhere else is so horrid. Thanks!!!

brij2006

I love this board.  Honestly.  We can be very opinionated and have such huge differences in views and ideas.  Yet we can keep things civil or step back and apologize if things get heated in any way. 

Also, love that we can openly talk about marijuana usage and there not be any attacks.

short+sassy

emily1004 said:

You're forgiven. I know the 4th Amendment is tricky. There are, give or take, 50 different parts to it. I used to work for a Consumer Rights attorney. I've sat in rooms with the ACLU, countless number of times. (Sometimes excruciating, sometimes amazingly mind-blowing).

Of course you can argue either way, you're a lawyer. You're trained and paid to do that.  My whole point was stated above, about no reason other than: They're on welfare, is not (arguably) a good enough excuse, for a drug test. 

I'm not sure why people feel so strongly about it. Drug testing welfare recipients has save no money. However, when they legalized TCH it in Colorado and Washington, revenue went up, crime went down and drug cartels started to suffer.  I understand people don't want to pay for someone elses drugs, but that argument could be used for: I don't have kids, why do I have to pay for public schools, or I don't have a car, why should I have to pay for fixing the roads. You can't pick and choose what taxes you want pay. 

(I had spend my evening with my in-laws. I need to smoke a dub. I'm not going to assume, but being that you're an attorney, I'm surprised you don't partake in it yourself. That's why they don't drug test at my office, if they did 75% of the lawyers and staff would fail).

SITB

First bolded:  AMEN!!!!  I have never smoked even one cigarette in my life, much less pot, but I feel very strongly pot should be legalized and controlled (just like alcohol) across the country.  It's a win-win-win in so many ways.  More revenue, way less crime.  And less crime means less government resources needs to be spent to on police forces, on courts, and on jails/prisons.

Orange bolded:  For me the difference is drugs are illegal substances that are only for the sole benefit of the welfare recipient who is using that drug.  For pot specifically, I'd be fine and prefer if that was not checked for because it does have medical uses.  If I could ban people on government assistance from buying high end cell phones, Coach purses, and BMWs until they get back on their feet, I would do that too.  Obviously in the real world that would be draconian, but it doesn't stop me from being pissed off every time I am behind someone in a grocery store who pulls her food stamp card out of her $500 purse while she is texting away on the latest iPhone.

Bottom line, it's not that I'm unfeeling or don't believe in government help for people who need it but, if someone can't afford to feed and/or house their family without tax payer assistance, than they also (generally speaking) shouldn't be buying unnecessary, luxury goods.  And I put illegal drugs in that category.

Schools and roads are for the greater good.  I don't have children and, although I occasionally rant about child tax deductions, I don't at all feel the same way about schools.  Whether someone has children or not, educating our citizens is an absolute necessity to maintain our industries for the future and our country's economic status.

Same thing for roads.  A person may not have a car, but they still use roads and our transportation system, either directly or indirectly.  They might take the bus.  They might walk to their local grocery store, but all those goods they buy are brought in by trucks.

True, true.  There are is a huge amount of stuff that any one person's taxes go to that don't benefit them in any way.  And that is the way the system works.  But, as much as we can keep government waste to a minimum, is a positive thing.  And if people on government assistance know they might occasionally be tested for drugs, than perhaps some who might have that inclination will refrain.  I guess for me it would be a benefit/cost analysis of "Is more money saved by not doing drug tests as opposed to no drug tests, with than some government money going to buy illegal drugs if people know they won't have that potential barrier?"  

als1982

short+sassy said:

emily1004 said:

You're forgiven. I know the 4th Amendment is tricky. There are, give or take, 50 different parts to it. I used to work for a Consumer Rights attorney. I've sat in rooms with the ACLU, countless number of times. (Sometimes excruciating, sometimes amazingly mind-blowing).

Of course you can argue either way, you're a lawyer. You're trained and paid to do that.  My whole point was stated above, about no reason other than: They're on welfare, is not (arguably) a good enough excuse, for a drug test. 

I'm not sure why people feel so strongly about it. Drug testing welfare recipients has save no money. However, when they legalized TCH it in Colorado and Washington, revenue went up, crime went down and drug cartels started to suffer.  I understand people don't want to pay for someone elses drugs, but that argument could be used for: I don't have kids, why do I have to pay for public schools, or I don't have a car, why should I have to pay for fixing the roads. You can't pick and choose what taxes you want pay. 

(I had spend my evening with my in-laws. I need to smoke a dub. I'm not going to assume, but being that you're an attorney, I'm surprised you don't partake in it yourself. That's why they don't drug test at my office, if they did 75% of the lawyers and staff would fail).

SITB

First bolded:  AMEN!!!!  I have never smoked even one cigarette in my life, much less pot, but I feel very strongly pot should be legalized and controlled (just like alcohol) across the country.  It's a win-win-win in so many ways.  More revenue, way less crime.  And less crime means less government resources needs to be spent to on police forces, on courts, and on jails/prisons.

Orange bolded:  For me the difference is drugs are illegal substances that are only for the sole benefit of the welfare recipient who is using that drug.  For pot specifically, I'd be fine and prefer if that was not checked for because it does have medical uses.  If I could ban people on government assistance from buying high end cell phones, Coach purses, and BMWs until they get back on their feet, I would do that too.  Obviously in the real world that would be draconian, but it doesn't stop me from being pissed off every time I am behind someone in a grocery store who pulls her food stamp card out of her $500 purse while she is texting away on the latest iPhone.

Bottom line, it's not that I'm unfeeling or don't believe in government help for people who need it but, if someone can't afford to feed and/or house their family without tax payer assistance, than they also (generally speaking) shouldn't be buying unnecessary, luxury goods.  And I put illegal drugs in that category.

Schools and roads are for the greater good.  I don't have children and, although I occasionally rant about child tax deductions, I don't at all feel the same way about schools.  Whether someone has children or not, educating our citizens is an absolute necessity to maintain our industries for the future and our country's economic status.

Same thing for roads.  A person may not have a car, but they still use roads and our transportation system, either directly or indirectly.  They might take the bus.  They might walk to their local grocery store, but all those goods they buy are brought in by trucks.

True, true.  There are is a huge amount of stuff that any one person's taxes go to that don't benefit them in any way.  And that is the way the system works.  But, as much as we can keep government waste to a minimum, is a positive thing.  And if people on government assistance know they might occasionally be tested for drugs, than perhaps some who might have that inclination will refrain.  I guess for me it would be a benefit/cost analysis of "Is more money saved by not doing drug tests as opposed to no drug tests, with than some government money going to buy illegal drugs if people know they won't have that potential barrier?"  

The problem with pot that makes it different from alcohol is that it's very difficult to be able to determine when users are driving impaired.

short+sassy

als1982 said:

 

The problem with pot that makes it different from alcohol is that it's very difficult to be able to determine when users are driving impaired.

I hadn't thought about that.  But I suspect and would hope that, as pot becomes increasingly legal in various states, law enforcement will find ways to address that.  Does anyone know if being under the influence of pot translates into the same dangerous, bad driving that driving while intoxicated does?

One would think it would, but maybe it doesn't.  For example, it's been shown in studies that driving drowsy is almost as dangerous as driving drunk, yet it isn't illegal to drive while you are too tired.  Probably because there just isn't anyway to test for and determine a "dangerous" level of tired, like there is for alcohol.

jessica490

short+sassy said:

als1982 said:

 

The problem with pot that makes it different from alcohol is that it's very difficult to be able to determine when users are driving impaired.

I hadn't thought about that.  But I suspect and would hope that, as pot becomes increasingly legal in various states, law enforcement will find ways to address that.  Does anyone know if being under the influence of pot translates into the same dangerous, bad driving that driving while intoxicated does?

One would think it would, but maybe it doesn't.  For example, it's been shown in studies that driving drowsy is almost as dangerous as driving drunk, yet it isn't illegal to drive while you are too tired.  Probably because there just isn't anyway to test for and determine a "dangerous" level of tired, like there is for alcohol.

I used to smoke it years ago...my driving actually slowed down and I was waaaay more cautious. That's why I don't get why MJ is such a big deal....you never hear anyone get arrested from marijuana related accidents lol. Alcohol should be illegal while pot should be legal...it makes no sense to me. Nobody's done anything stupid from pot...you just chill...laugh....and eat....not get obliterated.....

julieanne912

jessica490 said:

short+sassy said:

als1982 said:

 

The problem with pot that makes it different from alcohol is that it's very difficult to be able to determine when users are driving impaired.

I hadn't thought about that.  But I suspect and would hope that, as pot becomes increasingly legal in various states, law enforcement will find ways to address that.  Does anyone know if being under the influence of pot translates into the same dangerous, bad driving that driving while intoxicated does?

One would think it would, but maybe it doesn't.  For example, it's been shown in studies that driving drowsy is almost as dangerous as driving drunk, yet it isn't illegal to drive while you are too tired.  Probably because there just isn't anyway to test for and determine a "dangerous" level of tired, like there is for alcohol.

I used to smoke it years ago...my driving actually slowed down and I was waaaay more cautious. That's why I don't get why MJ is such a big deal....you never hear anyone get arrested from marijuana related accidents lol. Alcohol should be illegal while pot should be legal...it makes no sense to me. Nobody's done anything stupid from pot...you just chill...laugh....and eat....not get obliterated.....

So I actually voted for the legalization of MJ here in CO, and I'm still for it.  I've never smoked or consumed it in any way.

But to say nobody's ever done something stupid while under the influence of it is a bit incorrect.  There have been a few incidents here, usually relating to edibles, where someone consumed too much and did something stupid/terrible.  One was a college kid who jumped off a balcony and died, the other (which is still going on), was a guy who murdered his wife after eating some edibles that were purchased legally.  

Now, there could have been some other factors but authorities seem pretty certain that the MJ edibles had something to do with their behavior.  So it's very similar to alcohol in that way.... use irresponsibly and it can have some bad consequences.  They've also now changed the laws to limit the potency in edibles.

short+sassy

jessica490 said:

short+sassy said:

als1982 said:

 

The problem with pot that makes it different from alcohol is that it's very difficult to be able to determine when users are driving impaired.

I hadn't thought about that.  But I suspect and would hope that, as pot becomes increasingly legal in various states, law enforcement will find ways to address that.  Does anyone know if being under the influence of pot translates into the same dangerous, bad driving that driving while intoxicated does?

One would think it would, but maybe it doesn't.  For example, it's been shown in studies that driving drowsy is almost as dangerous as driving drunk, yet it isn't illegal to drive while you are too tired.  Probably because there just isn't anyway to test for and determine a "dangerous" level of tired, like there is for alcohol.

I used to smoke it years ago...my driving actually slowed down and I was waaaay more cautious. That's why I don't get why MJ is such a big deal....you never hear anyone get arrested from marijuana related accidents lol. Alcohol should be illegal while pot should be legal...it makes no sense to me. Nobody's done anything stupid from pot...you just chill...laugh....and eat....not get obliterated.....

Whenever I see someone driving weirdly slow, especially at night, I totally assume they are high on pot.

emily1004

I would never drive on pot. When I do, I do it in the privacy of my own home, while watching something like Step Brothers.