Money Matters
hoffse
member
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Money vs. Happiness - need some perspective
I might delete later, but need some outside views.
H has been getting job offers in Atlanta. Many of them. The most recent was double his current salary, and senior associates top out at triple his current salary. Our families live in the Atlanta area, and my firm has an office there so I wouldn't even have to move jobs (just buildings). It's a huge amount of money - we're talking over a $100K raise overnight.
The drawback: We own our house, we like where we live, and we actually like our jobs. We kind of feel like we have found that rare unicorn in the legal field: we both work at large firms, but our souls aren't sucked dry. We enjoy going to work, and we like the people we work with! Our hours are reasonable, we see each other, nobody hides the fact that they occasionally skip work for their kids' soccer game or whatever. We are both advancing and have been given a lot of support by our firms. My firm has paid for my LLM degree. His firm is starting to let him work on business development plans where they are willing to reduce his (already reasonable) hours and then fund whatever travel is required to do it. He has also been told that his path to equity partner "will be swift."
So we feel like we have it pretty good. We live well on what we make. We will be able to pay off our student loans in a reasonable time frame. We are maxing out retirement accounts. We are not inclined to change our lifestyle just to make more money. All that being said, we aren't talking about a little more money - we are talking about a LOT more money.
I think we will continue to say no to these offers, but I'm interested to hear what MM thinks.
H has been getting job offers in Atlanta. Many of them. The most recent was double his current salary, and senior associates top out at triple his current salary. Our families live in the Atlanta area, and my firm has an office there so I wouldn't even have to move jobs (just buildings). It's a huge amount of money - we're talking over a $100K raise overnight.
The drawback: We own our house, we like where we live, and we actually like our jobs. We kind of feel like we have found that rare unicorn in the legal field: we both work at large firms, but our souls aren't sucked dry. We enjoy going to work, and we like the people we work with! Our hours are reasonable, we see each other, nobody hides the fact that they occasionally skip work for their kids' soccer game or whatever. We are both advancing and have been given a lot of support by our firms. My firm has paid for my LLM degree. His firm is starting to let him work on business development plans where they are willing to reduce his (already reasonable) hours and then fund whatever travel is required to do it. He has also been told that his path to equity partner "will be swift."
So we feel like we have it pretty good. We live well on what we make. We will be able to pay off our student loans in a reasonable time frame. We are maxing out retirement accounts. We are not inclined to change our lifestyle just to make more money. All that being said, we aren't talking about a little more money - we are talking about a LOT more money.
I think we will continue to say no to these offers, but I'm interested to hear what MM thinks.
Re: Money vs. Happiness - need some perspective
My question is this. What's the cost of living difference between where you live now and if you moved to Atlanta? After accounting for the difference, would you be in a lot better position than you are now?
I could move to DC and make more money, but my housing costs would also increase in proportion.
Would the other job also have a swift path to equity partner?
I also think happiness matters. I make a lot of money where I'm at and we live well, but I want to kill my boss every day that I come into work. So to me there is value to that.
H gets offers like this, he's in big data IT, so he gets recruiters calling him from Seattle and the Bay Area all the time. The pay range for the positions are way higher than what he makes now, but we love where we live, and the lifestyle we live, and we would have to sacrifice a lot of that to live in those areas (not to mention the higher COL in both of those areas). He always tells them thanks, but no thanks.
The biggest difference is traffic. We currently live outside of the downtown area and have a 13 minute commute to work, from our driveway to our desks. In Atlanta you leave an hour before you need to get anywhere if it's during rush hour.
It sounds like you are comfortable where you are right now....different strokes for different folks but it's totally your decision...
I could probably be making more money myself, but I love the people I work with, my 10 minute commute to work, and all the time I get to spend with H between our really good schedules. He does his 40 hrs in 3 week days!
I had the opportunity to interview for position that paid $10K more, but it comes with going into the office 5 days a week (as opposed to my 4 day office week, 1 day at home) and a 35+ minute hwy commute through downtown which is horrific during traffic hours....I couldn't stomach that commute again so I passed it up...the money would've been nice, but I value my home life well over work/money
I've actually been thinking about this exact topic recently. I sat in a $90K car the other day and I thought if my salary doubled would I buy that car? I don't know. But I do know that for my salary to double I would have to sacrifice things that I value a lot more than a car such as living where I do and evenings and weekends not interrupted by work....and I know right now some luxuries don't outweigh the quality of life I get with my current job.
The fact is if I make a list of my needs and a list of my basic wants they are all currently met. If they weren't then it would be motivation to make a change.
Another thing to consider is where you are in your career and where you want to be in the future. Your field may be a little different than mine but I have found that changing companies is a swift way to higher salary and promotion. And the right strategic moves at the right time in your career can put you on a totally different trajectory. $100K more today (and at your ages) could translate into a trajectory to much more and possibly be a game changer.
Sounds like you guys have thought it out in depth. I would do whatever you think is best for your family, but more money doesn't always equal more happiness. You can have all the materialistic things in the world and still be unhappy.
I spent a little time this morning number crunching with retirement calculators and such, and we are already tee'd up to have way more than we will need in retirement if we just keep up with our current contributions. With the raise that's happening for me next year, we will probably use it to increase taxable investments. So I mean, we don't really have plans to spend it....
I'm not sure what I would do with an extra $100K. We probably would keep doing what we are doing and just invest it. But there's a real risk that my H would be very unhappy in that new job, and I don't think the extra money would offset that unhappiness.
We might change trajectories in the future, but we are both doing extremely well at the moment. We both have a real opportunity to equity at our current firms. I don't have any idea what the equity rates are like at the Atlanta sweatshops, but I'm guessing they are pretty low.
Bigger firms will most likely result in more hours, more pressure and more coworkers reporting on your behavior.
For now I would stay where you are, but man the thought of an extra $100k is tempting, but eventually you run out of things to spend money on.
Done right (and if you didn't need any of the $100k), you could probaby set your family for generations to come assuming nobody squandered it.
But I agree with the staying.....
I could go to the private sector and increase my salary substantially in executive leadership position, but I would not see the benefit. For me, money is only part of the life satisfaction equation.
Honestly, once we broke $100,000 combined income as a couple a few years ago, our quality of life has not changed at all with subsequent increases. Sure, our financial goals and savings have changed, but realistically, there isn't a salary that is appealing enough to me at this point to want to change our circumstances. We also both have the same schedules, so it's a perk.
I firmly believe that once you know what you value and prioritize, it's much easier to make decisions. Decide based on your values and life priorities.
During the other half, we either travel or spend money. So it is kind of a blessing and a burden. I am by no means complaining about having the time off, but we have found that the longer we are away from work, the easier it is to spend money on home improvement projects, trips, eating out, random items, etc.
One pretty sweet benefit H's work offers is that they are a corporate sponsor for what is probably the best daycare in the city. This daycare partners with Auburn University, so their early education students do rotations there and the kids are often part of observational studies, etc. What it boils down to is that you typically have WAY more adults per child than is required by state law. We know a few parents who send their kids there, and I've only heard rave reviews. Anyway, the corporate sponsorship means employees of that sponsor get priority and a small tuition reduction. The daycare is located about 3 blocks from my office and 2 blocks from his, so it's incredibly convenient as well as being really good. That has always been the plan for daycare, assuming we can get in.
We had a long talk this weekend and decided to stay. We will keep an open mind for the future, but we like what we have here. We number crunched and figured a $100K raise would work out to about $45K in available cash to spend after adjusting for taxes, retirement contributions, and increased cost of living. Now I'll be honest - I could definitely find a way to spend that $45K - but we don't need it, and I think our quality of life would decrease too much.
Besides, the long play here is making sure at least one of us equities. We are both well-positioned to do it at our current firms. A $45K increase in cash now could mean that he ends up in a firm where very few people equity. If my H's chances at equity went down the toilet, we could be giving up WAY more in future income than we would be earning during the next few years in Atlanta.
I hear the temptation, but I think the decision to stay in B'Ham is very wise. Especially after reading your (above) post where it talks about it taking longer for H to make partner (if at all). Sounds like the move to Atlanta...at least for the current job offer he was considering...would only be for shorter term monetary gains.
If you all were struggling with your budget/money, my answer would be different. But since you all are comfortable with what you are making, have a good quality "work life" (sometimes so rare!), with a shorter commute...I agree with the other PPs.
Not quite as extreme, but the most money I have ever made was when I managed a large gas station/convenience store. With bonuses, I made about $55K/year. But I worked 50+ hour weeks, weekends, and NO holidays. I quit that job to go back to an office job making (at the time) $38K/year. It was a huge pay cut, but well worth it for me. As an aside, if I broke down my pay by the hour...I actually came out ahead at the (overall) lower paying office job.
H drives 1 hour each direction (soon to be 1:15 when he moves locations), on top of minimum of 10-15 hour shifts. It was not as big of a deal before we had kids, but now that we have DD it really takes a toll on all of us. It also forces me to step up and be a single parent many nights and weekends when he's in his busy time. Our saving grace is that my shift is the usual M-F 8-4:30 and I rarely work outside that. So I do 99% of daycare duties, household tasks, errands, etc. If we both worked like this then it would be very very hard.
He took this position 6 years ago and doubled his salary. It really helps out, but since DD has come we've discussed him taking a pay cut and finding something closer to home so we have some sort of resemblance of a family life. At this point we just don't at all. DD and I work our schedules around when he's going to be home so we can see it. It's rough but you can make it work if that's what you guys want to do.
TTC since 1/13 DX:PCOS 5/13 (long, anovulatory cycles)
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