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I seriously forgot why I hate the Pets board
http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/28991525/ShowThread.aspx#28991525
I know that we have several local girls who post over there frequently...and it's really obnoxious. I am a damn good pet owner and i hate that I ask a simple question, and give lots of detailed info and background, but because I don't crate train, raw feed, value my dogs over my own sanity, I am a bad pet owner.
Ugh.
There are SO MANY BAD PEOPLE out there, yet I am the one getting told that someone is going to poison my dog. Ugh, ugh, UUUGGGHHH.
Re: I seriously forgot why I hate the Pets board
So I read most of that over there. The person who said something about how their pittie wont go outside if its 50 degrees or colder without a sweater...ummm what would she do if she had her dog 10 years ago and the whole dressing your animals was not "in" would she keep her dog inside? My little jack russell is a weenie when it comes to the cold but we still make her go outside. with out sweaters.
Some people.
I've got two JR, and they do get annoying and bark. One of them (Ruger) LOVES the water, so much that he still plays in his water bowl when its freezing out, hence the reason they dont have water bowls outside much anymore unless its super hot because he plays in the water and barks and barks...
Your not a bad pet owner, if you are, than I am horrible!
Um...when it was close to 50 this past week here, I thought to myself "Dang...its HOT here!" It's all relative I guess. And I know my girlfriend who lives in Florida thinks 50 is about as cold as it can get!
I will say that I know the majority of those girls mean well and want to educate pet owners. But there are times when it can be a little much, especially when responses then to repeat themselves and you take a beating.
I wouldn't let it bother you...I know your dogs love you!
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Holy crap. I'm sorry they jumped all over your @ss. There was some good advice hidden in there...somewhere...
I think people can sometimes forget how long it takes to train dogs. While it is possible to crate train older dogs, it will take several weeks to work up to the point where they are OK in there for hours at a time (and even then, they can't pee!).
Have you seen those collars that spray something when they bark?
http://www.jbpet.com/Anti-Bark-Spray-Collar,2246.html
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We crate trained our dog, but only because our yard isn't big enough or properly equipped for a dog.. I feel horribly guilty leaving him in his crate all day.. At least your dogs can go pee whenever they want
I wouldn't worry too much about their opinions on that..
As for the boredom, I'd hope that just having free run of the yard would give them enough exercise! You're at least doing better than us on that.. the only exercise our poor boxer gets is running up and down the stairs chasing the laser light
For the barking, you could try one of those citronella collars that emits a small, harmless squirt when they bark? We have a "behavior" collar that our vet recommended, but it only works via remote control and we only use it to emit a high pitched beep when the dog is misbehaving. He's not a barker to begin with, but he has this incessant whine instead that drives us bonkers. He's not whining about anything in particular, he just walks around whining! Plus he's a jumper and has the attention span of a gnat. You could try that type, but it only works if you're there to "beep" them..
They have a really cool huge doghouse to sleep in and a TON of big and small toys to play with.
I will ask my vet about bark control options...
I have a hard time believing that they're bored or miserable outside.. Dogs historically, are scavengers, outside animals and can and have survived much worse than the "horrendous" conditions you apparently let them live in
Labs are notoriously bad barkers.. Every lab that I've ever known has been obnoxious that way.. and maybe Ed's dog is just annoying.. not much you can do about that
I'd definitely talk to your vet though, he might have some more ideas!
I'm not a fan of the pets board and I don't equate pets to children, but I kinda see their point on this one. You leave them outside with no interaction/exercise for up to 14 hours a day. You admit you don't even want them, and you're not willing to do what is required to keep them from barking; it seems like you really are looking for a magic solution that just doesn't exist.
I'm also puzzled by your claim that you can't afford dog daycare, but I've seen you post more than once--as recently as today--that you love to shop and spend tons of money, so clearly a real solution just isn't a priority. Honestly, I think they and you would be better served if you found them a more suitable home with people who could give them more time and attention.
Love to shop, yes. Spend lots of money, used to be able to, not anymore. Also, used to be able to afford doggy daycare. Understand the difference? Sure, if I still had an extra $100 a month for doggy daycare, I would probably still send them. But I don't have it, and I don't think it makes me a "horrible really bad terrible pet owner" for having outside dogs.
Fine. Choose to focus on the daycare cost if you must, but that doesn't change the fact that you have two dogs that you admit you don't want and with whom you spend very little time or energy. It's not a crime to re-home them, and under the circumstances, I don't know why you don't give it more consideration. You're not well-served by this situation, and neither are they.
This.
Where the heck have you been? I haven't "seen" you around in forever!
I'm not trying to get rid of them, FFS. I didn't post an ad on CL for 2 free dogs. I have loved and taken care of them for 6 and 3 years, respectively. They have chewed up everything that I own when they were puppies. I did expensive dog training with both of them. They even chewed up my friend's wedding album, ok? And you know what, I still have them and love them and take care of them. Yes they get rained on occasionaly, they are DOGS. What do you think they were doing before humans took them as pets? When it's raining and i get home, they are dry. They have a huge covered area in my backyard. Their paws are wet, and that's it.
I asked if there was a humane way to get them to stop barking. A simple "no, there is not" would suffice. A few people said that. But a few take it so far. Hello, they are ANIMALS. Not people. Not kids.
And I'm over it. We can agree to disagree. There are many people that are way meaner to their animals, and it's my own fault, for being stupid enough to post on the Psyco Pets board. I wish there was a "normal pets board" where the other 90% of America that owns pets would hang out. I know for a fact that I'm not the only person in the world with outside animals.
Oh, my cat is a "garage cat" also. THE HORROR. Quick, Call CPS.
I'm right there with you .. our poor dog is in his crate (because you know, thats what good dog parents do *eyeroll*) for 10-12 hours a day.. that's the way of things. We work, we have no choice.. it'll even be worse when we have to drop off/pick up baby from day care.. DH and I work at the SAME place, so there is no staggering our schedules.. but ya know what, our dog loves us unconditionally.. you know your dogs love you.. they have free reign of your yard, their house and toys.. they are a lot better off than a lot of dogs out there.. my own probably included.. So screw the psychos and do what you feel is best for your pups.. and really, if your neighbors hated it that much, I'd hope they'd say something
It's pretty impossible to have a rational discussion with you. I've not called you any names, nor have I suggested that you're the "worst pet owner ever," and I've made it clear that I'm not on the dogs=people bandwagon. I don't know why you keep going there.
I just don't understand why you keep dogs that you don't want (you basically admitted that you're just marking time until they die, for pete's sake) and don't have time for. There are no awards for people who keep animals they don't want. Why wouldn't you want them to be with people who can give them more time and attention, when you yourself have said that your lifestyle isn't conducive to it?
Zelda, I wasn't addressing that to you. I'm attached to my dogs, I love them. I dont' want to seperate them, I know they are happy together. I really, truly, was just trying to find out some more info about how to get them to not bark at the one neighbor dog, that was all. I would be much happier if I didn't have these 2 dogs in my life. But at the same time, I don't feel that it's responsible to get rid of them.
Sorry I'm a little worked up...getting attacked does that to me, ya know?
Um. Sorry you're getting jumped at on this board on top of the Pets board.
Sorry I don't have any advice on bark-suppression and I can understand the love/hate relationship with doggies. It would definitely be difficult to transition them to crates after being outside-dogs for this long, not impossible but a challenge. It's funny, how the board, instead of giving helpful solutions or advice, you're just automatically attacked. Sorry yo.
I would suggest a device called Ultra Sonic Bark Control. It's about $60 retail, but I can get it for half price at wholesale (I used to own a pet store and still have wholesale accounts to buy from)
I highly suggest mentally-stimulating toys or toys that they have to work at to get treats out of. This will keep them busy and keep their mind working. Also, you can buy them giant Kongs and fill them with cottage cheese overnight and freeze them. They are a great pacifier and last several hours.
Also, I'm not suggesting that you do this but rehoming your pets is not irresponsible. I had to do this 3 years ago and while it was incredibly difficult, I knew I didn't have the time or energy for the dog (a border collie) so she was adopted by a farm owner and lives a very happy life herding horses now.
But that's a very big decision.
Just wanted to let you know that me, as a pet owner that treats my babies like kids, I've rehomed a dog because I knew that was the most responsible thing for her and me. And yes, I dress my current dog and absolutely spoil her. I guess I'm one of those crazy pet people!
WOW gotta love people
I posted on the pets board once and some flipp'n wacko thought she figured out where I lived and posted that she reported me to Mult. police for animal cruelty. (I had asked for ways to keep dogs warmer outside in the winter the first winter we lived here. I got hell unleashed on me for asking that) Too bad for wacko chick I don't live in mult. county 
Anyways onto your issue. I know it's not "humane" but we were told to use a bark collar from our trainer (who trained w/ Cesar the dog whisperer guy) It is the kind that beeps first to warn them but if they keep barking she gets a zap. The one caveat being to only use it with the battery in it for two weeks MAX. After that take the battery out but still put the collar on. Most dogs will be trained in that time to feel the weight and know what it does and won't bark if it's on. It worked like a charm for us. If they still bark after the 2 weeks then it isn't something that would work for them, and discontinue the collar. I know it sounds bad but I do honestly feel she is a much more relaxed dog now with the collar. I think some dogs get a little OCD and just keep barking. Just my 2 cents.
As for them being bored I 2nd the kong suggestion. You can also use peanut butter or wet food then frozen in them. Keeps them occupied.
Is there a neighbor kid close by that you know that you could pay 10 bucks a week to, to just walk them when they get home from school???
Good luck!
I have to laugh b/c God knows what they'd say about me over there. Our older dog spends 9+ hours a day outside and ya know what?? I'm sure she's a lot happier out there in her warm, dry doghouse than stuck inside where she can't pee. I mean seriously, growing up the only time our dogs ever came inside is when the temp dipped below freezing and even then it was just for the night....and believe it or not they were just fine. Our 8 week old puppy spends the day in the bathroom, have a field day w/ that
On to your problem....I don't know if you'd be insterested b/c you said you've had them trained and money is an issue, but you might look into Bark Busters. My cousin ended up with a notice from the county b/c his dog was barking all day when they weren't home. They hired BB and he said it was the best money they ever spent. The thing is though it takes consistency. You do have to work with them at it I can appreciate that you're busy. Maybe looking into rehoming them is a good idea. I know you're attached and you love them, but you also need to think of what's best for them. Just a thought....I'm not trying to preach or anything. We had to rehome a dog last summer and it was hard, but I know she went to a great home. In short, no there's not a good "quick fix" you can try the bark collars and what not, but in the end the dogs are bored and need more attention then they are getting. I hope things work out.
GL!
I've been very hesitant to post on here or on the pets board because I am one of those crazy animal people that values my pets on the same level as kids. I'm not going to lie to just because I think you're in awesome person..I really do think you're great and sooo nice and in no way are you a terrible person as some of those people over on the pets board made you out to be. (I'm so sorry about that...some of them definitely got carried away and were unnecessarily rude)
Anyway, so like I said, I don't lie to my friends so I'm going to be honest with you and tell you that I do think it's wrong to keep your pet outside all day. I would never do it. My dogs both LOVE their crates and feel safe and secure in them, and If I were to leave them outside all day, I would worry constantly about all of the terrible things that could happen to them. Having said that, I know that not everyone views pets the same way I do, and everyone is entitled to have their own opinions. Rather than lecture you about how I think what you're doing is so terrible, I'd rather help you to make the most of the situation. In my mind, the reality is that there are so so so so so many animals out there that need homes...so many that will die today because there are not enough people to adopt them.
While your dogs may not have the ideal situation, they still have a great home with family that loves them, they aren't starving or freezing to death or thirsty. They're happy. I won't sit here and tell you to give them away because you can't be the perfect pet owner 100% of the time. I'll be honest with you and say that I don't think you should get dogs again if you're not willing to work with them more than you are with your current dogs, but I don't think you should give them away either. They're HAPPY and they have a wonderful home. Maybe not the best home, but it's still a great home. Why should you give them away to a home that will be taking homes away from two other dogs that may never get homes, ya know?
Yes I'm a crazy pet lover and yes I treat my pets as my kids, but I live in the real world and I know that I can't convince everyone to be crazy pet parents like me...so I do my best to help them to be the best parents they can be.
Most of the people on the pets board really do give good advice and really do want to help others...but sometimes some of them can really get carried away. It sucks because then it gives them a bad rap and makes people not want to listen to all of the good advice that they do have to offer. I think people sometimes forget that this is an internet message board, and there is no way to truly know all about the person posting behind a screen name, ya know? People also forget that not everyone is going to have the same views as them as much as they want them to, ya know?
Anyway, I'm talking like crazy over here so I'll stop, and I hope you don't hate me after this post! I just wanted to give my two cents, and I felt really bad that you were getting so attacked. Maybe it's because I know you IRL and I know you're a really great person, but I don't think you deserved some of the treatment you got.
As for the barking, I really dont know much about it and don't have much advice, sorry
There's been a few good suggestions in there...I know you mentioned you can't afford a dog day care, but maybe you could afford to have someone come walk the pups like two or three times a week? Maybe it would be enough to give them something to look forward to and work them out enough so that they wouldn't get so bored and bark all the time? I really don't know though...sorry
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Hi Jenn,
I have to agree with everything Daisy said. I get you and I know you IRL and your intentions. I KNOW you're not mistreating your dogs, and I KNOW you do care about them. You just have a different philosophy than many of us uber-pet people. Thats doenst mean you should be attacked, or that you suck.
I was hesitant to respond yesterday, mostly bc I was on a really late conf call and then making dinner. But also BC I have SEEN some peeps get BSC on the nest and then stalk people IRL. It freaks me out and I dont want to have to worry about those psychos with a baby on the way. I know you understand.
.
I guess I don't understand why you say what a crappy pet owner you are over and over again, but when someone agrees that you are, you freak out. Yes, it's crappy to leave your dogs outside all the time and not walk them. You can't say that they're happy if they're so bored they're barking constantly. I know you justify it by saying that you're not the worst pet owner there is, which you're not, but I wouldn't say you're a good one either. Mediocre? Yeah.
As the neighbor of someone who does the same thing with their dog but worse (the dog is outside in the backyard 24/7 with no exercise or socialization, barking ALL THE GODDAMN TIME), I can say that just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean they aren't annoyed. My neighbors are nice people. They're just clueless or something about the dog. Normally I'm not a fan of rehoming, but I pray daily that they take that dog to a rescue so it can get the life it needs/deserves.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
Can't we let it go at this point? Jen is taking the necessary steps to do whats best for her dog. She's had quite the thrashing and at this point I believe the horse is more than dead.
I dont care how other boards treat people-they can attack and get BSC on a poster as much as they desire. But on THIS board, many of us are friends-we give our friends advice, sometimes advice they don't like or dont want to hear, but at the end of the day we do it gently bc we care about each other.
So please-can we keep the snark at bay on this subject unless we have something productive to contribute? The piling on makes all of us pet people look like d-bags.
Ditto all of this. She's really not a crappy pet owner, I swear. I've BEEN to her house, I've SEEN the yard where the dogs are at, and I've also seen the dogs inside her house. Her dogs are inside most of the time when they're home and she gives them tons of love and attention. They sleep inside. Basically, instead of being in a crate all day while they're at work, they're outside. Yeah, it wouldn't be MY choice for them as I stated above, but not everyone in this world isn't going to agree with me, whether they're my friend or not, and I accept that. I'm sorry but you can't compare her to your neighbor who leaves their dog out 24/7...not the same AT ALL.
Also, dogs don't only bark when they're bored. My little dog barks all the time at stuff when we're playing outside with him and it's not because he's bored, it's because his first owners made him think that he needs to bark while he's playing. I guarantee my pets are bored when they're home in their crates, but does that make me a bad pet owner? This has gone on way too long and I think people just need to let it go...agree to disagree.
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That was my thought.. Yes, I know crate training is good, but I know for fact my dog would rather have free reign of the backyard all day to run, play, lay in the sun, do whatever.. than to sit in a crate all day.. You win some you lose some.. I think what bothers me the most is how hurtful some of the commenters were to Jen, when all she wanted was advice, not to be treated like scum
Oh my goodness, some people are so terribly rude and judgmental! I read through the first page of your other post and I admire how graciously you kept trying to redirect they naysayers to your original question. I am appalled by how awful some of those girls are!
My DH and I are always saying how freely people give us advice about our dog, especially when it is unsolicited. To which we always think (but are too passive-agressive to say) "our dog is better behaved than yours! Shut the heck up!"
Your dog does not need to be inside, nor does it need to be crate trained (she'd probably just bark from inside of the house - also annoying!). Bark collars (the shocker ones) work for a while, but our good friends - the advice givers - have a lab who barks like a mad man and has figured out how to bark over the collar and no get shocked.
My suggestion would be negative-reinforcement training while you are home and the pup barks (spray her in the face with vinegar water or "tsk" or whatever form of "scolding" works for her). Some dogs are tricky and so long as the barking isn't constant most dog owners, as your neighbors, shouldn't mind and would probably just appreciate any effort you put forth.
Sorry you got jumped on! Girls can be so catty!