September 2009 Weddings
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
To quote MCD - gender semantics discussion
http://www.suite101.com/content/what-is-the-difference-between-sex-and-gender-a146502I really like this one.It also talks about how fluid gender is. Very few people feel 100% female (simply by wearing pants, you'd be considered at least a tiny bit male) or 100% male. This kind of thinking also applies to fluid sexuality. The fact that so many ladies here responded to MB's Nosy Question of the Day quantifies that.The most important thing to know is that gender is nothing more than a social construct. So, what do people think? Does everyone know that gender and sex are two very different things or is this a new concept for most?
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Re: To quote MCD - gender semantics discussion
i think you are a trouble maker.
I think you're being way too condescending for a true discussion.
updated 10.03.12
Okay, I honestly take it back.
I was trying to convey that, yes, people can have their opinions (and I'd love to know them) but whether or not it's true or not, isn't really up for debate.
I honestly thought this was common knowledge. I was just correcting the misuse of these words.
Then when MB showed that she didn't know about this, it got me thinking that people without any Psych/Soc/Anthro/Fem/WS classes, might not know about this.
And, honestly, how did I do this?
I simply pointed out the difference in the words, very politely too, and then MB said that they were the same thing (which they're totally not) so it got me thinking others didn't know either.
I was curious.
NOT an ass. If anything, MB made herself look like an ass since SHE'S the one who didn't know.
I look at gender, sex, marriage from a more religious, conservative standpoint, so no I don't agree.
This isn't a statement against gay marriage, but I believe that you're made either male or female and that there are certain "roles" that come along with that, both from society and religion. Fluid gender is hogwash to me. Then again, I also believe that marriage is designed to be a commited lifelong relationship between 2 people. I find it a little sad (for lack of a better word) that society forgets religion's role in gender and marriage.
ok lets be honest here...your real problem is that you lack sensitivity. which is a primary reason why i think you will fail miserably at being a social worker.
while you may be right, you dont know when is a good time to bring an issue up or let it go. this is the consistent issue with you.
while this MIGHT be a good discussion/common misconception...starting a gender identity debate in Tara's post was insensitive and rude. THATS why you look like an assss.
Okay.
So, what do you say then to people who are transgendered? They are biologically male but feel, in their minds and hearts, female.
I completely disagree about roles. Just because I have a vag doesn't mean I have to cook, clean or stay home with the kids. But, I can see where you're coming from on the roles as the good books do tell us about them.
Have you ever kissed a girl? Because if you have, you've proved that sexuality is fluid. I don't remember what your answer was in MB's post.
Sorry sweetie. I know what I know. And what the dictionary tells me. And not what some uber-wannabe feminist Nazi (read: you) is trying to instill in the minds of those who just don't give a damn.
Fin.
updated 10.03.12
I honestly was not trying to start a debate.
How was I to know that MB didn't know?
I, as stated the other day, forgot things and use wrong terms (when talking about the SIL who didn't cook). I thought this was the case. I just happen to feel strongly about not tramping on transgender rights and thought I would correct it.
I didn't think it would start a debate. I honestly thought people would remember they had used the wrong words!
Oh, my goodness, you still think you're right?!
Honestly, what do you say to transgendered individuals?
This is NOT my opinion, I was not the extremely intelligent person who realized these truths. This is just fact.
Gotta hand it to her -- she lasted through the weekend. 3 days -- I think that's a new record!
updated 10.03.12
And, MB?
Ummmm, the dictionary you mentioned............well, um, it agrees that sex and gender are two different things.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender
It says how gender are the traits society generally associated with sex.
HAHAHA.
Not that I need a dictionary since my years of undergraduate work have told me, over and over again, that gender =/= sex.
I agree.
The problem is I didn't think it WOULD be a discussion. C'mon, you're a social work, you know all this stuff is true.
I thought EVERYONE knew it was true since it was drilled into me all through school. It is introduced on day one of any psych, soc, anthro, WS, fem, etc classes.
I was simply correcting the misuse of a word. I was NOT looking for a debate/discussion.
Actually, I was one of the few who haven't kissed a girl. Gender roles, in a biblical sense, do not mean having to "cook, clean, and stay home with the kids." There's much more to it than some sterotypical view of a "woman's place." I won't waste my time arguing with you about transgendered people or fluid sexuality or open relationships. Our views are obviously very different, and we've all learned that we can't have a real discussion with you, not in any type of respectful way. Just wanted to let my peace be known.
But, I was not rude or impolite in any way in my post.
And, actually, the OP was her thanking everyone for their previous support. Yes, it would have been an inappropriate place to START a fight with someone but that was exactly what I was NOT doing.
I am honestly curious. And, my response to you showed I CAN have a discussion.
I understand that there are biblical roles. I honestly thought that those were what women were responsible doing in biblical times. I am sorry.
That's funny, because when I clicked on that link right there, definition 2.a. blatantly says "sex."
Yup, look at that. Right there.
...that sounds like "sex" is the definition of "gender" to me.
updated 10.03.12
There are plenty of English majors on here. We don't go around like grammar-Nazis correcting everybody's posts. In fact, we even allow ourselves a few imperfections, because otherwise we'd sound like a bunch of pompous fools.
The way you write on here is, I'm assuming, not the way you write a formal letter to your advisor or employer. (You at least, I hope, don't capitalize every other word for emphasis.) It's the same thing. Yes, gender and sex are two different things. Yes, society should make stronger moves to acknowledge that. But you chose an awkward and importune moment to bring it up.
You constantly feel the need to bring to light your amazing social worker knowledge. You aren't the only one on the planet (or even board) who knows these things; you're just the only one who constantly feels the need to bring it up. With all of this knowledge and special training, though, how do you not understand why this alienates you?Yes, it says that RIGHT ABOVE where I referenced.
It is common knowledge, well within the circle of people who know about this, that the whole world is NOT using the correct terminology.
Why don't you actually do some research on this, instead of just nit picking the dictionary? I know it gives you the incorrect definition, there is a whole movement to try and rectify this going on, I was pointing out that it gives you the right definition as well.
Grammatical corrections are not even remotely the same thing as enlightening people to the fact that using these words incorrectly are why insurances don't pay for pre sugery medications for pre ops, why they make people wait three years for surgeries, why these people are shunned and alienated. Saving one person from these things is enough to make me WANT to alienate myself. Yes, of course, it would be better if I didn't have to but if that is everyone's choice on here, then so be it.
I DON'T HAVE amazing social worker knowledge however, at my school and in my community, this is common knowledge. It's not amazing to know this stuff, it's only amazing that people DON'T know this stuff. That people, like MB, insist they're right in face of all the evidence to the contrary.
If these ladies on here have a transgendered child, well god help that child. :-(
And all I'M saying is that the words are commonly used interchangeably with no harm meant, therefore you need to chill the fluck out and stop trying to make everything an issue or a movement.
Jesus, you are a brick wall....
updated 10.03.12
NO, what YOU are saying was that the words were TWO DIFFERENT WORDS.
And, whether or not harm is meant or not (and I believe you that YOU don't mean harm, that is EXACTLY what happens. By allowing people to remain in the dark about sex versus gender and everything related to transgendered individuals, THIS IS HARM.
updated 10.03.12
But see, this is where you get into trouble. I also know that sex =/= gender. But the difference between you and (among others) is that I always enjoy a good, intelligent, respectful disucssion on to the extent that people believe that is true. Good respectful discussions are the way to provide education, not shoving things in people's faces and making them feel stupid.
We actually had a good, somewhat related discussion forever ago about what it meant to be a wife and "wifely duties." Could have been a similiar discussion about what each of us thinks it means to be a woman. Would have illustrated that sex and gender are different all on it's own.
Yes, you are right.
I think the problem is that it was so drilled into all of us in undergraduate (whether or not you were studying human services) that I thought, since so many people on here have attended college, everyone knew this and they were just being human - using wrong words. Something I do a lot and always appreciate when people correct me.
I am always striving to use the best language possible and LOVE when people enlighten me to better words. I guess I thought everyone felt the same way.